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Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 21:13:30 i think its a bit **** that a missile boat can basicly hit a target just as good at 100km or at 5m. caldari are ment to be a mainly kin dealing race and a long range race but missiles are uber at 0m and a lot of caldari missile ships get rof bonous. i would suggest a new feature on missiles, a acceleration time. all missiles would do at lest half kinetic and half what ever the missile type of choice is basicly the missile would accelerate and pick up speed, this would translate into the kinetic aspect of the missiles. at full speed the missile would do full damage [half of which is kin] at zero meters with no acceleration it would only do half damage [or what ever constant is chosen] inbettwen it would do something related to the time it had to accelerate! to reduce server lag as much as possible no actual acceleration of the missil needs to be calculated or seen, just the flight time. ie longer flight time the more of that kin damage it does. each missile type can then have a range at which it is not very effective to use. ie torps can have full damaage at 15km+ and a decreased damage from that to zero. rockets would probably have 1km range ect NOTE: this would only change the damage output of missile ships when the target is very close to you, such as 15km on a torp raven. 10km on a cruse raven. 5km on hvys. 3km lights. 1km rockets for an example, all other ranges max dmg would be the same! tell me how much you love my idea :P and yes i know it wount be implemented and if it is even considered it will be for 2010+ -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
R31D	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:16:00 - [2] Nice idea Free bumpage for all
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:19:00 - [3] "NOTE: this would only change the damage output of missile ships when the target is very close to you, such as 15km on a torp raven. 10km on a cruse raven. 5km on hvys. 3km lights. 1km rockets for an example, all other ranges max dmg would be the same! tell me how much you love my idea :P" I think it'd be more honest and straightforward to write instead what you really want to write, which is: "please don't let that mean Raven hit my Megathron for full damage when i want the blasters to be teh pwn" ... isn't it? ¼¼;
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:21:00 - [4] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/05/2006 21:21:51 Remember missile arming time? I do. And yes, Gronsak, MISSILES ARE DIFFERENT FROM TURRETS AND WORK DIFFERENTLY. Welcome to that realisation. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 21:21:45 Originally by: j0sephine "NOTE: this would only change the damage output of missile ships when the target is very close to you, such as 15km on a torp raven. 10km on a cruse raven. 5km on hvys. 3km lights. 1km rockets for an example, all other ranges max dmg would be the same! tell me how much you love my idea :P" I think it'd be more honest and straightforward to write instead what you really want to write, which is: "please don't let that mean Raven hit my Megathron for full damage when i want the blasters to be teh pwn" ... isn't it? ¼¼; yes that is exactly what im saying! misisle boats do max damage when a ship is extramly close to them! which isnt correct since no other system can do that! even clsoe range guns have problem tracking at very close ranges! the benifit of flying close rnage ships is that you take massive amounts of damage getting into range but then u dont take much damage if at all! -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/05/2006 21:21:51 Remember missile arming time? I do. And yes, Gronsak, MISSILES ARE DIFFERENT FROM TURRETS AND WORK DIFFERENTLY. Welcome to that realisation. yes thats another posibility which will work just as good! also reintroducing splash dmg would work but then that had problems so it might not be the best idea! -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:25:00 - [7] yes, because removing missile ships from the game is SO worthwhile. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Maya Rkell yes, because removing missile ships from the game is SO worthwhile. many people cryied that they would leave the game when the last missile overhaul was done. and this isnt even a majour nerf or anything, its just putting a bit of balance into the game would you use a bomb to kill someone sitting 2 feet away from you? atm a missile ship is able to do damage to a ship 1meter away from it without taking any damage itself meaning u either do no damage to that target or take damage yourslef! -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
Marcus Druallis	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 21:21:45 Originally by: j0sephine "NOTE: this would only change the damage output of missile ships when the target is very close to you, such as 15km on a torp raven. 10km on a cruse raven. 5km on hvys. 3km lights. 1km rockets for an example, all other ranges max dmg would be the same! tell me how much you love my idea :P" I think it'd be more honest and straightforward to write instead what you really want to write, which is: "please don't let that mean Raven hit my Megathron for full damage when i want the blasters to be teh pwn" ... isn't it? ¼¼; yes that is exactly what im saying! misisle boats do max damage when a ship is extramly close to them! which isnt correct since no other system can do that! even clsoe range guns have problem tracking at very close ranges! the benifit of flying close rnage ships is that you take massive amounts of damage getting into range but then u dont take much damage if at all! Nope, that benefit of flying a close range ship is so you do alot of damage in closer range.... --- Bigger BS Guns Robot Arm
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Gronsak Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 21:21:45 Originally by: j0sephine "NOTE: this would only change the damage output of missile ships when the target is very close to you, such as 15km on a torp raven. 10km on a cruse raven. 5km on hvys. 3km lights. 1km rockets for an example, all other ranges max dmg would be the same! tell me how much you love my idea :P" I think it'd be more honest and straightforward to write instead what you really want to write, which is: "please don't let that mean Raven hit my Megathron for full damage when i want the blasters to be teh pwn" ... isn't it? ¼¼; yes that is exactly what im saying! misisle boats do max damage when a ship is extramly close to them! which isnt correct since no other system can do that! even clsoe range guns have problem tracking at very close ranges! the benifit of flying close rnage ships is that you take massive amounts of damage getting into range but then u dont take much damage if at all! Nope, that benefit of flying a close range ship is so you do alot of damage in closer range.... not true! well not very true! since a sniper can get close to the damage of a close range ship looking at two extrams, take a snipe gedden with tachs and t2 guns and sentry drones VS a AC tempest! -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Maya Rkell yes, because removing missile ships from the game is SO worthwhile. many people cryied that they would leave the game when the last missile overhaul was done. Blah blah... missile arming time. Again, I remember it. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: Maya Rkell yes, because removing missile ships from the game is SO worthwhile. many people cryied that they would leave the game when the last missile overhaul was done. Blah blah... missile arming time. Again, I remember it. what are u talking about, there was never a missile arming time! and just fyi torpedos in rl do have a safy feature which is an armining time or distance! so its not a crazy idea -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:37:00 - [13] Edited by: j0sephine on 05/05/2006 21:39:17 "what are u talking about, there was never a missile arming time!" Supposedly it was tried on (then differently named) SiSi. Once. And the reactions caused that test to end very fast and never see the light of day again because end effect was that bad. "and just fyi torpedos in rl do have a safy feature which is an armining time or distance! so its not a crazy idea" FYI torpedoes in rl don't fly in space...
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:40:00 - [14] Originally by: j0sephine "what are u talking about, there was never a missile arming time!" Supposedly it was tried on (then differently named) SiSi. Once. And the reactions caused that test to end very fast and never see the light of day again because end effect was that bad. "and just fyi torpedos in rl do have a safy feature which is an armining time or distance! so its not a crazy idea" FYI torpedoes in rl don't flight in space... again i come back to the argument of "would you use a bomb to kill someone sitting 2 feet away from you" it makes no snese that you dont take any damage from your missiles when the target is just meters away. so with that in mind the missile ship should take splash damage or its missiles should not hit anything clsoe to it and any idea why the arming distance didnt work on sisi? -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
dalman	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:43:00 - [15] Originally by: j0sephine "NOTE: this would only change the damage output of missile ships when the target is very close to you, such as 15km on a torp raven. 10km on a cruse raven. 5km on hvys. 3km lights. 1km rockets for an example, all other ranges max dmg would be the same! tell me how much you love my idea :P" I think it'd be more honest and straightforward to write instead what you really want to write, which is: "please don't let that mean Raven hit my Megathron for full damage when i want the blasters to be teh pwn" ... isn't it? ¼¼; But it's the truth j0s. Back in the old days we had area effect damage. And that was the only way to kill a raven 1vs1. You ran right next to it and the missile explosion hurt the raven as much as the target. A system that was logical. But, it was removed due to immense whinage from ppl living in empire (who does that). Then TomB ran some experiments with a activation time on missiles. Which kinda was good but never made it to the real server. As he used way too high values (like large missiles doing 0 damage within 15km). It's really shocking that nothing has been done for 2.5 years to replace the area effect of missiles. And where we are now, missiles are stupidly overpowered in many situations (pve, 'set' pvp like caldari ally tournament (guess why I wasn't in the SA team? - Cause I said we needed a top skilled raven pilot for the BS role)) and useless in other situations (180km 50vs50+ fleet combat anyone?). There really should be T2 missiles with much higher speed (like 20 km/s) to make them useful in 'blobtastic eve' (but penalties to make these less useful in other situations) and a system to make missiles in general less useful at very short range. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:44:00 - [16] "again i come back to the argument of "would you use a bomb to kill someone sitting 2 feet away from you"" Depends on the bomb, i suppose. Definitely not expert on things that go boom, but i think missiles that hit through direct impact in general manage to focus their damage blast so it doesn't go all around. In water which is a very dense medium this might not be enough, hence the arming distance for safety, but in space? There's very little in there that could carry the blast in directions other than you intend it o.O; "and any idea why the arming distance didnt work on sisi?" No idea, sorry; that was done while i was on break from EVE ^^;;
CptEagle	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:45:00 - [17] Maybe the damage and flight time should vary (sp?) on the missiles damage type? Just like turret users.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:47:00 - [18] Edited by: Gronsak on 05/05/2006 21:48:20 Originally by: CptEagle Maybe the damage and flight time should vary (sp?) on the missiles damage type? Just like turret users. yep that would also be possible. perhaps reducing the distance of torps to 10km with max skills. crusie 8km. heavys 5km. lights 3km. rockets 1km -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
CptEagle	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:48:00 - [19] Originally by: j0sephine "again i come back to the argument of "would you use a bomb to kill someone sitting 2 feet away from you"" Depends on the bomb, i suppose. Definitely not expert on things that go boom, but i think missiles that hit through direct impact in general manage to focus their damage blast so it doesn't go all around. In water which is a very dense medium this might not be enough, hence the arming distance for safety, but in space? There's very little in there that could carry the blast in directions other than you intend it o.O; Lol try blowing up a building if you're 1ft away from it, even if all the energy goes into the building, you'll die under the debrie comming down... And also if you let you're bom explode very near you targets armor/shields, it will reflect some of it.
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:52:00 - [20] Now thats a good idea, tech 1 frigates can sit right under the nose of a raven and slowly kill it. :) Now thats we call balance.
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:53:00 - [21] WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE hi gronsak. Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:54:00 - [22] "Back in the old days we had area effect damage. And that was the only way to kill a raven 1vs1. You ran right next to it and the missile explosion hurt the raven as much as the target." That worked only with stupid pilots ;s (all you had to do was to put your ship at angle, aiming either above or below the target. missiles would then go past your target, then turn around and hit them while at safe distance from your own ship. fun fun fun ;o But am not sure what could be done with missiles to make them feel more "fair"* ... if you do this arming thing, then you make the missile ships twice handicapped -- at long ranges their damage is delayed, and with long range tech.2 ammo they don't even outdamage turret boats at these ranges anymore. At short range, they no longer can do damage at all, and unlike turret ships which can web stuff down to point their turrets can catch up tracking-wise, webbing isn't going to affect the "too short range, no banana" arming issue. And if you let missiles do even little damage at close range, bet you someone will still take offense at that and whine on and on and on about it :/ *) short of total re-design of EVE weaponry to resemble the reality, where nearly all ships carry very few missiles each, and these missiles are extremely deadly, primary weapon system that while possible to shot down, practically one-shot kills things when it actually hits. Which of course would never happen.
inSpirAcy	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:56:00 - [23] Edited by: inSpirAcy on 05/05/2006 21:57:27 There's an ancient truth governing the Internet called Godwin's Law. I propose a new variation in which the first analogy to real life examples declares the end of a thread's life.
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:56:00 - [24] Originally by: CptEagle Originally by: j0sephine "again i come back to the argument of "would you use a bomb to kill someone sitting 2 feet away from you"" Depends on the bomb, i suppose. Definitely not expert on things that go boom, but i think missiles that hit through direct impact in general manage to focus their damage blast so it doesn't go all around. In water which is a very dense medium this might not be enough, hence the arming distance for safety, but in space? There's very little in there that could carry the blast in directions other than you intend it o.O; Lol try blowing up a building if you're 1ft away from it, even if all the energy goes into the building, you'll die under the debrie comming down... And also if you let you're bom explode very near you targets armor/shields, it will reflect some of it. Try sitting inside a big frickin ball filled up with glue and tubes stuck up your nose and your arse. Then compare RL and Eve.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:57:00 - [25] "Lol try blowing up a building if you're 1ft away from it, even if all the energy goes into the building, you'll die under the debrie comming down..." Yeah, if the dying ships tended to fall down on your head, this would actually have some relevance -.o (am fine with the idea of dying ship exploding and dealing some damage to everything around, but guess how many blasterthron pilots are going to like that sort of "fix" ;s "And also if you let you're bom explode very near you targets armor/shields, it will reflect some of it." Err neither shield nor armour in EVE reflects back damage, they just soak it while you still have some shield/armour left ^^;;
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 21:59:00 - [26] Originally by: cytomatrix Now thats a good idea, tech 1 frigates can sit right under the nose of a raven and slowly kill it. :) Now thats we call balance. which is exactly what happens with BS sized turrets so it is balance and stop crying u got a drone bay, and 2 slots left in high to fit smartbomb or nos or close range frig guns! ect and hello kilrock -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Gronsak Originally by: cytomatrix Now thats a good idea, tech 1 frigates can sit right under the nose of a raven and slowly kill it. :) Now thats we call balance. which is exactly what happens with BS sized turrets so it is balance and stop crying u got a drone bay, and 2 slots left in high to fit smartbomb or nos or close range frig guns! ect and hello kilrock You are the one who is crying now. I cant fly a battleship. So its not gonna affect me much. Now you tell me who is crying now.
Beringe	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:02:00 - [28] How about just bringing back area of effect? Suddenly, sitting at 0 km and spamming torps isn't such a good idea any more... Could be fun with a cluster of frigates, too (note that the explosion damage would still be modified by expl. radius and such). Only downside is that it would bring back insta-podding, but I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Averiana	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:05:00 - [29] please remember, that yes whilst a raven for example does exactly the same damage over 100km to 0km, it also has flight time, so whilst it may have a good rof, it has an insane flight time to travel that distance, whereas every ship in game that isnt missile based, hits instantly, U cannot expect them to b the same.... There is no need to nurf missile damage on range... This is said as an amarr pilot.. and yes that is Guns....
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.05.05 22:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Averiana U cannot expect them to b the same.... There is no need to nurf missile damage on range... it wount really be a nerf, for example a torp raven not doing full damage at under 10km basicly means that its doing full damage from 11km all the way upto 249km [javelin torps] it just means at under 10km range it does not do full damage to its targets! also it might be ok to even limit this distance to as low as 7km for torps and LESS for other missiles. and again if ur target gets too close and u cant shoot him you just switch target! -------------------Sig----------------------- Boost the raven, i dont know how since its got great volley damage, massive range, any damage type, overpowered tank BUT BOOOOOOOSTTTT them raveneeeeen

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