| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cao Cao
   |
Posted - 2003.09.19 22:35:00 -
[1]
Sorry for the double post but I realized this forum is probably the best place for this post...
Anyone who has any experience with pvp knows that nearly all combat happens within 20 km. Why is that? The reason is that the only way you can prevent someone from escaping is to use a warp disruptor, which only works at 20km or less.
Only problem with this is that the majority of battleship weapons are effective at ranges greater than 20km. Only a few select weapons, including the neutron blaster cannon | works effectively below 20km. Moreover, if you want to stop someone from simply using a MWD to escape from your warp disruptor, you have to get within 10km to use a stasis webbifier.
It's ridiculous. If we want to see REAL battles at long range with all types of ships performing their intended role (cruisers and frigates up close and personal, battleships acting as supporting artillery from extended ranges), there needs to be a change in how these prohibitive systems work.
 My suggestion:
 Alter warp disruptors and warp scramblers so that they work on any target that you are locked onto. As a result of this, a warp scrambler would require more capacitor use because of its stronger value. This would allow people to extend the range of the battlefield to each ship's targetting range limit.
Alter stasis webbifiers (and other modules such as shield transfer arrays and power transfers, energy vampires, etc.) so that their range is vastly increased. I would suggest 50km for webbifiers and 25km for these other systems. Make certain rare energy vampires MUCH more effective. Again, this would spread the battlefield out, which is a good thing.
___________________
Implementing these changes would allow all ships to perform their intended roles, and make pvp combat less of a squeeze to see who can get close enough to the other ship first. As it is right now, the only way to kill someone in a REAL pvp battle (not jumpgate ganking) is to close with them and web/jam them at about 5km distance.
|
Karif
|
Posted - 2003.09.19 22:52:00 -
[2]
Until there is a counter-mod for Webbifiers, which utterly kill close range combat ships, they shouldn't touch Webbifiers. A MWD with its 50% penalty to shields and 25% penalty to cap is not an effective counter, especially since you can't fit it on 90% of the frigates without ridiculous skills and module sacrifices.
The problem with PvP being cut to 20km due to the fact it is easy to warp is the other problem. You don't need to improve warp disruptors, just make going into warp a more involved/complex, time consuming, or tempermental process.
===============================
Deception + Information + Skill |
Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2003.09.19 23:06:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
You don't need to improve warp disruptors, just make going into warp a more involved/complex, time consuming, or tempermental process.
I'm sure travel would be so much more fun when it takes that much more time to enter warp mode. Why gimp the whole rest of the game when it is ONLY in combat that it is the problem? Making warp disruptos effective at targetting range solves the issue, without making life more difficult for traders, miners, and generally everyone else.
|
Scathain
|
Posted - 2003.09.19 23:17:00 -
[4]
webifyer counter- mwd
Stais counter - warp core stabilzer
===============================================
I fart in your general direction! you Mother was a hampster and your Father reaked of elderberry
If you dont know what movie this is from I have pitty on you 
liarg yloh eht rof tseuq :snohtyP ytnoM |
Karif
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 01:14:00 -
[5]
Why gimp the whole rest of the game when it is ONLY in combat that it is the problem?
Because you don't have to gimp the rest of the game?
I suppose we'll be adding the 50% shield and 25% cap penalty to Webbifiers now too?
===============================
Deception + Information + Skill |
Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 02:16:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Why gimp the whole rest of the game when it is ONLY in combat that it is the problem?
Because you don't have to gimp the rest of the game?
I am referring to the longer wait times for warp. If it takes a longass time to enter warp, that will totally suck for every situation NOT in combat. Which is totally unnecessary.
|
Doc Brown
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 10:00:00 -
[7]
What is really needed is the ability to come out of warp at different ranges.
Most combat happens at ~20km because that's where it usually starts.
If that de-classified dev animation can ever be put into action, then combat might actually move out of the 20km range.
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Demitri Klashnikov
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 10:19:00 -
[8]
How about using a fast strong cruiser for lock, and a b/s or several for pounding his ass?
the cruiser could keep moving perhaps a fast orbit and some drones, and perhaps be prepared to be sacrifised for the cause
not sure this would work as my only PVP experience is running and hiding from sinister ect
-----------------------------------------------
|
Coconut Cadang
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 10:40:00 -
[9]
Effective webbers/jammers is a big part of the problem with PvP. They only help you kill people that do not want to fight, because they are badly outnumbered or outgunned.
Without them people would perhaps fight more often and you might end up with more kills in the end anyways, if you're good. Given some other tools for tracking instead it would make combat much more dynamic.
Now you:
1) Make sure you are stronger.
2) Press "play".
3) Scream out in local how 1337 you are.
And you want STRONGER webbers/scramblers??? Make combat interesting instead.
|
Luc Boye
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 10:42:00 -
[10]
We need an insta-pod-n-loot module, as soon as someone warps in, a pirate locks and the pods him...
Cao Cao, work for your living eh? Equip 2 MWD's and catch up, then webb/jam him. Or you wanna go around in a tank and still be able to lock and scramble ppl from any distance.
Pirates had smaller but faster ships then the merchants, that's the whole point. Not some uber man-o-war.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
|
|
Quiz
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 11:35:00 -
[11]
Would be nice if you could aim at specific parts of the ship, like in Star Trek for example.
Taking out the engine and the weapon systems would make the ship unable to warp away or fight back for example. Pirates could ask for money once they disabled the ship instead of just killing everything they can.
I know there is warp scramblers and weapon jammers in the game that is supposed to work this way, but maybe it would be a good option if ordinary fire also could be aimed at specific parts of a ship?
|
Valeria
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 11:38:00 -
[12]
Arr, you people just don't get it.
Just yesterday I had Algazara attack me at a gate. Of course I stayed to fight back and luckily I was able to sensor damp her megathron before my armor was all gone. I then proceeded to take her shields out at a distance, all in vain of course since we both could just warp away at any time.
Battleships just aren't meant to fight below 20km. Yes there's a few close-range large weapons but I've used them before and Battleships just aren't agile enough to use them well. And this crap about having multiple ships... people aren't allowed to play solo now? You must always outnumber your opponent? That's the silliest argument i've ever heard.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 11:56:00 -
[13]
I think the 20km range for warpscramblers and 10km range for webifiers is fair IMO. If you find your large guns have too high an optimal for PvP, well there's always the highly damaging -60% range ammo there to bring it down quite a bit.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Valeria
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 12:10:00 -
[14]
37km Optimal with AM. Can't track **** below 20km.
The current warp scrambling and webifer stats have been the same all through beta. Meanwhile, weapons have been modified ALOT. It's only natural to modify warp scramblers/webifiers with them.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 12:55:00 -
[15]
Quote:
37km Optimal with AM. Can't track **** below 20km.
The current warp scrambling and webifer stats have been the same all through beta. Meanwhile, weapons have been modified ALOT. It's only natural to modify warp scramblers/webifiers with them.
I'm not 100% that's quite true. One thing I know about railguns is you never, ever want to fight at the fringe of your optimal with them.
Using antimatter ammo with 250mm prototype gauss guns my optimal is ~17800m I believe. Anything over 18km is difficult for me to hit, to say the least. Good for PvP range, but past that, wow, they can't hit the backside of a barn.
I would think the higher you can get your optimal with a railgun the better to be honest, due to the low accuracy falloff.
I'm not a fan of large hybrids, but I do know that a 37km optimal with railguns probably isn't a bad thing.. the tracking, I dunno, I seemed to be able to hit stuff at about 20km with my 425mm railguns decently, though the hits were weak, 150-230, mostly around 150 though.. my medium 250mm turrets seemed to outdamage them..
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Ka'loor
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 13:27:00 -
[16]
hmmm great, what are tachs supposed to be pve guns only......youll never get their optimal anywhere to 20-30k......
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 13:44:00 -
[17]
Quote:
hmmm great, what are tachs supposed to be pve guns only......youll never get their optimal anywhere to 20-30k......
I've been nailed hard by tachyons at 13km. Tachyons are very powerful, heh.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Raknor
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 13:56:00 -
[18]
Cao Cao it sounds like your real problem is that your not using a BS the way it was intended. As part of a fleet. |
Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 18:31:00 -
[19]
Raknor,
I am not using a battleship at all. I stopped using a battleship after I lost my Raven about a month ago. I gank people with a blackbird and battleships run away from me 
Look, I made this suggestion not because it is some self-serving thing to make me be better able to gank people. I made it because I would like to see some game mechanics implemented that allows people to fight with their ships the way they were supposed to.
In another thread, someone suggested larger, higher powered modules such as large disruptor something like 2,250 grid 85 cpu or something and can warp disrupt from max targetting range. That would be a good way to go.
|
Luc Boye
|
Posted - 2003.09.20 18:52:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 20/09/2003 18:52:58
Well yea I agree that it is silly that you have to fight outside scramble range for optimal damage, but that, I believe is because of another deeper problem that have never been addressed as of yet, namely TRACKING the people in space.
There are no skills, modules or methods that are useful enough to track down a person in your sys. Sure you can use scanner and narrow it down, but by the time you figure out anything on it, the target could be 10 jmps away.
As for jamming/webbing for me it's something like tractor beam in SW which worked at close range. You should be able to outmanouver a bigger ship with smaller and faster vessel. But the bigger vessel should be able to figure out where you went so the chase begins.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
|
|
Charlemagne
|
Posted - 2003.09.21 14:20:00 -
[21]
No, no no no dont do this!
|
Winterblink
|
Posted - 2003.09.21 23:11:00 -
[22]
Did it ever occur to anyone that these better webifiers and disruptors you speak of might be on their way with tech 2 items? :)
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2003.09.22 05:02:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Did it ever occur to anyone that these better webifiers and disruptors you speak of might be on their way with tech 2 items? :)
Actually that hadn't occurred to me :) But you have given me hope!
|
Temujin Destovai
|
Posted - 2003.09.22 09:28:00 -
[24]
Battleships are "supposed" to be large attack ships that dish out massive damage. I see no reason to change webifiers (works in frigate optimal range) and scramblers (cruiser optimal range) to accomodate battleship pilots.
Sure you can fit scramblers and webs on your battleships, even though this is theoretically supposed to be done by support vessels (I know I do)(but then again I fly a close range PvP scorpion). On the one hand people complain about cruisers and frigates becoming obsolete, and on the other hand they want battleships to be able to do EVERYTHING.
If your going to solo in a battleship, get yourself a close range combat setup, and leave your long range weapons at home for a time where you have some support ships (namely a blackbird, since everything else is sadly obsolete)
Oh and if you infact want to introduce a 50km webifier, as a counterpiece to the MWD, it better have a -50% shield, -25% cap penalty and a cap drain that will leave you sitting dry after 2 minutes.
The Chronicles of Xanadu |
Tetsuo
|
Posted - 2003.09.22 10:20:00 -
[25]
I totally agree with Temujin. Why can't people understand that to be good at everything you need a group of different ships. sheesh
----------------------------------
While I see You cannot see
While I move You move with me
|
Valeria
|
Posted - 2003.09.22 10:58:00 -
[26]
The highest Tech V named Warp Distruptor has 28km range... not enough still.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2003.09.22 16:56:00 -
[27]
28km is not much of a difference. There needs to be a way to warp jam people at the limit of your targetting range.
And those other 2 people whose names conspicuously slips my mind ... you are MISSING THE POINT. Scorpion is supposed to be a support ship, no? Give battleship EW ships their proper role in combat. And if these modules really took a lot of grid, your "battleship" would be stacked with EW modules and not have room for big huge damage dealing weapons.
So I just don't see how your argument that battleships would then do "everything" really works at all.
|
Karif
|
Posted - 2003.09.22 22:47:00 -
[28]
How about because you'd be back here right after they implemented this complaining about sensor dampeners?
The real simple solution is to apply the same fight/flight restriction on jumping/docking on going to warp - call it navigational realignment.
Tack on a minimum cap requirement - call it a safety margin for going into warp.
Problem solved. You want to pin people down that don't want to fight? Kit to 20km because these are the people who won't be shooting back in the first place.
===============================
Deception + Information + Skill |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |