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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1269
   |
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:If you've arrived at these conclusions as a result of the information gleaned from this link, there is a disconnect either in the information provided, or in the interpretation of the information provided. Drones and ammo are a patent waste of time, and the serious builder will naturally start with rigs and expand into ships.
lol
pretty much everything is better than ships. expensive BPOs, months of research, 300k ISK/hr, too much freightering involved. meh.
many better ways to make money out there.
oh, and those few exceptions that are profitable today: check again tomorrow.
GRRR Goons |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1277
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 23:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:- only 11 give more than 100 000 ISK/h (assuming materials bought at sell price and products sold between sell and buy orders). Is this based on the build time of the hull?
i have no idea what those values are based on. the ones i get from IPH are better than that. it's hardly ever a good idea to sell to buy orders, so you need to take sell orders as a reference. with that, you get quite a lot that are above 300k ISK/hr. does not make them any better though. fuelblocks fluctuate between 500k and 1.5m ISK/hr and never crash below material cost
Shizuken wrote:Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:- only 11 give more than 100 000 ISK/h (assuming materials bought at sell price and products sold between sell and buy orders). Is this based on the build time of the hull?
yes
GRRR Goons |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alright, let's bring some actual numbers into this:
http://imgur.com/mK0NkjS
Battleships, good BPO/BPCs, minerals bought via buy orders, ships sold via sell orders.
That window looks like you REALLY should start building Hyperions, however, you first need to look at some other values.
Let's check the market for Hyperions:
http://imgur.com/GldxDhD
what does that tell you ? today, hyperions are spiking and at 220m ISK. a price of 200m ISK is a more reasonable price you need to expect at the moment of your sale. people are really good at driving down the margin. they panic and try to sell ASAP to catch it, driving down the margin by undercutting deep. some people have access to "free" minerals and don't care about the current price and sell at whatever they consider a "nice" price. a reason to be very carefull about making and selling hyperions.
what else do we know about hyperions ? is there a hyperion doctrine out there ? where lot's of them go pop ? nope. there is not. you can check zkillboard. Hyperions are solo/smallscale boats that never die in huge numbers. that is a reason why you may not want to sell them (in jita)
back to my first screenshot. the SVR value is interesting. it tells you how long it's gonna take you to build the daily turnover for the jita market (in the screenshot, it's the daily average over the last 7 days). An SVR value of 3.64 for hyperions tells you that you need 3.64 production lines running 24/7 to cover everything sold in jita. that's not very much. with 7m ISK/hr you can expect a lot of competition for a market with very little demand. do you really consider this a good market ?
Last, but not least: the Hyperion Alliastra Edition. That ship explains a part of the demand. people buy it to have it in their hangar, not to go out and lead it to a glorious death. The demand is a one time thing and not constant. Does that sound lucrative in the long run ?
Last but not least: Transport. You need two Freighters for a 1 day batch of battleships. That's a lot of work. You can't even go #yolo and put everything in one freighter, it simply won't fit. Does that sound like fun ? 2 (1.8 or so if you run it 24/7) freighter roundtrips per 24 hours. For Fuel Blocks, it's one Roundtrip every 3 Days. Yes, you can pay Red Frog or PushX to do the work for you, but it may take a while (during which you are not generating wealth) and it's gonna eat your margin.
I made Abaddons, Rokhs, Hyperions and Maelstroms a few days before the patch and sold them for absolutely crazy prices, but that was a one time thing.
TL:DR:
don't make ships for jita unless you are really sure that you can be online all the time for freighter runs and undercutting.
GRRR Goons |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sister Hyde wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Alright, let's bring some actual numbers into this:
An SVR value of 3.64 for hyperions tells you that you need 3.64 production lines running 24/7 to cover everything sold in jita.
I believe there's a mistake in your otherwise helpful post: AFAIK, the SVR tells you how many manufacturers (producing on all 11 lines) it takes to satisfy demand in the region. There are about 40 Hyperions sold in Jita each day, a single manufacturer couldn't possibly deliver that.
3.64 is the average daily SVR for the last week
making 40 hyperions takes 5d 9h 31m 25s of manufacturing (PE 20) resulting in an SVR of 5.something. there are less than 40 hyperions sold per day in jita if you ignore the spike from the new skins. so 3.64 makes sense.
Quote:I don't know what fuel blocks you're running but I use 2 freighters a day, not 1 per 3 days.
i was using a batch size of 2000 production runs (80.000 blocks) as my reference. 1.something bn ISK, ~400k m-¦. safe in an AFK freighter.
GRRR Goons |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Muffet McStrudel wrote:I think the real issue is the best place for anyone to make production isk is in 0.0, however, the issue is that hot drop and cloaking mechanics make it pretty well impossible to accomplish.
CCP needs to either remove the ability for cloakers to hotdrop, or set a timer on afk cloaking so the account times out. After all, what are these big risks we keep hearing the PVP pilots taking in 0.0?
Any 6 mo. old cloaking noob can pretty much lock down isk / mining production in a system for as long as they are willing to get on after down time. It's stupid, and the problem is compounded even more by allowing people to pay for alt accounts with isk.
production is completely safe from AFK cloakies and hotdrops. however, production is not worth it, your margin is no bigger than in highsec and there are many factors that cut into it.
with current game mechanics it's stupid to make anything but caps, supercaps and maybe T2 production from BPOs in nullsec.
GRRR Goons |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:I would argue if you can't mine the minerals for production in 0.0, production is hardly "safe". I've found certain hulls and basic T1 modules to be quite profitable in 0.0
nullsec mining is something different.
Quote:Only a crazy or unemployed man would move his T2 BPO to null to produce on-site. BPC's ok.
moving T2 BPOs through null or lowsec is a bazillion times safer than moving them through highsec. you are safe as long as you always and under all circumstances keep a JC and a blops in the station with the BPO.
GRRR Goons |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1289
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 23:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Did you just suggest that he should produce something that never needs to be replaced once bought?
GRRR Goons |
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