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Darkateyer Baker
New Phoenix Order
0
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Posted - 2014.04.02 08:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not a total noob but only 5 months I think or 6 into eve online. I'm wondering on what I should start building ship wise and other things too to make some serious profit. I need ideas on what to do so I can start producing isk at a faster rate. |
Khadrea Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
20
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Posted - 2014.04.02 08:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do not start with ships. Research ammo/drones/rigs. Research being the key word. |
Darkateyer Baker
New Phoenix Order
0
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Posted - 2014.04.02 08:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Okay but what type of ammo drones and rigs should I go for? I need specific ones to maximize my profits |
Khadrea Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
20
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Posted - 2014.04.02 08:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Darkateyer Baker wrote:Okay but what type of ammo drones and rigs should I go for? I need specific ones to maximize my profits Please understand it is highly unlikely that your potential market competitors will hand you their profits on a silver platter. You will have to do your own market research, cost calculations and projections. The only truly free advice will be "Production Efficiency V", "time is money, too" and "there is no such thing as free minerals". |
Marcus Iunius Brutus
NerdRage Inc.
25
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Posted - 2014.04.02 08:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
My advice is: 1. go to a trade hub (Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Rens) 2. open market and observe some T1 items noting what items sale a lot (so you won't produce something noone uses) 3. go to https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/ and see which of your chosen items are profitable Above steps can be also automated* using spreadsheets, API queries and optionally MySQL database. *this automation requires a lot of preparation and research
You'll be surprised that a lot of items (most T1 ships for example) can't be produced with a profit at all - by buying materials and selling finished products. And if you had materials already you'd earn more by just selling materials.
Next step will take some more time, you need to buy Blueprint Orginals and research them to increse ME/PE or buy researched ones on contract - you decide. To research Material Efficiency on BPO use either: - low sec station - shorter wait time (a week or two before your job starts) but risky (other players can shoot you), - high sec station - longer wait time (3-4 weeks), much safer (but don't carry expensive BPOs in a fragile ship or other players will gank you). For Production Efficiency, there are free slots in high sec. If you have resources you can of course set up a Small Caldari POS: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4373307#post4373307
Then you have to decide where are you going to manufacture. For choosing a system take into account: - number of jumps to a chosen trade hub - this is really important for hauling materials and produced goods, - number of manufacturing slots available, - how used are the slots (is there a lot of competition?).
Logistics is another topic. Do you want to haul materials and products by yourself? Be very careful, anything above 100M in an industrial ship will probably get you killed (by gankers). Consider courier corporations - Red Frog Freight and Push Industries (join in game channels "RF Freight" and "PushX"), they're great for moving large volumes.
Good luck! |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
38
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Posted - 2014.04.02 13:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:My advice is: 1. go to a trade hub (Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Rens) 2. open market and observe some T1 items noting what items sale a lot (so you won't produce something noone uses) 3. go to https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/ and see which of your chosen items are profitable Above steps can be also automated* using spreadsheets, API queries and optionally MySQL database. *this automation requires a lot of preparation and research
If you've arrived at these conclusions as a result of the information gleaned from this link, there is a disconnect either in the information provided, or in the interpretation of the information provided. Drones and ammo are a patent waste of time, and the serious builder will naturally start with rigs and expand into ships.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
Marcus Iunius Brutus
NerdRage Inc.
25
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:If you've arrived at these conclusions as a result of the information gleaned from this link, there is a disconnect either in the information provided, or in the interpretation of the information provided. Drones and ammo are a patent waste of time, and the serious builder will naturally start with rigs and expand into ships.
I'm not sure who you were replying to but anyway. Using spreadsheets in connection with eve-central prices (Jita) I arrived at following conclusions: - there are 53 T1 ship hulls (out of around 100) that give positive ISK/h at the moment, - only 11 give more than 100 000 ISK/h (assuming materials bought at sell price and products sold between sell and buy orders). My chosen amortization period of BPOs is 6 months. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3363
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
As for ships: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4407205#post4407205
New to manufacturing
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Marcus Iunius Brutus
NerdRage Inc.
25
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Given that thin margin, did you factor in broker fees for buy and sell orders, transaction tax on sale, manufacturing line cost, etc.?
The devil is in the details.
I factored broker fees and transaction tax. I didn't factor manufacturing line cost. I'm not sure how my post was received but I was trying to tell that ship hull manufacturing is not the best idea at the moment. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
189
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Posted - 2014.04.02 14:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63663&find=unread
Right on the front page is a calculator which does damn near everything for you
If you can't find this, you're going to fail in the market |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3364
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Posted - 2014.04.02 15:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Given that thin margin, did you factor in broker fees for buy and sell orders, transaction tax on sale, manufacturing line cost, etc.?
The devil is in the details. I factored broker fees and transaction tax. I didn't factor manufacturing line cost. I'm not sure how my post was received but I was trying to tell that ship hull manufacturing is not the best idea at the moment. I agree. I was just surprised it was as "profitable" as you indicated. Last time I bothered to look, things were much worse. |
Wulfgar WarHammer
Imperium Research Inc
44
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Posted - 2014.04.02 16:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Darkateyer Baker wrote:total noob ... start building ship wise ... serious profit.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1269
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Posted - 2014.04.02 17:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:If you've arrived at these conclusions as a result of the information gleaned from this link, there is a disconnect either in the information provided, or in the interpretation of the information provided. Drones and ammo are a patent waste of time, and the serious builder will naturally start with rigs and expand into ships.
lol
pretty much everything is better than ships. expensive BPOs, months of research, 300k ISK/hr, too much freightering involved. meh.
many better ways to make money out there.
oh, and those few exceptions that are profitable today: check again tomorrow. GRRR Goons |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
279
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Posted - 2014.04.02 22:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:- only 11 give more than 100 000 ISK/h (assuming materials bought at sell price and products sold between sell and buy orders).
Is this based on the build time of the hull? |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1277
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Posted - 2014.04.02 23:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:- only 11 give more than 100 000 ISK/h (assuming materials bought at sell price and products sold between sell and buy orders). Is this based on the build time of the hull?
i have no idea what those values are based on. the ones i get from IPH are better than that. it's hardly ever a good idea to sell to buy orders, so you need to take sell orders as a reference. with that, you get quite a lot that are above 300k ISK/hr. does not make them any better though. fuelblocks fluctuate between 500k and 1.5m ISK/hr and never crash below material cost
Shizuken wrote:Marcus Iunius Brutus wrote:- only 11 give more than 100 000 ISK/h (assuming materials bought at sell price and products sold between sell and buy orders). Is this based on the build time of the hull?
yes GRRR Goons |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
279
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Posted - 2014.04.03 00:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Shizuken wrote:- only 11 give more than 100 000 ISK/h (assuming materials bought at sell price and products sold between sell and buy orders). Is this based on the build time of the hull? yes
Ok, I don't actually use that as a metric when approving jobs from my manufacturing director. Based on that though I have found ships to be much more profitable than 100k ISK per hour of manufacturing time. I have had no trouble getting 500k to 1,500k on ship hulls. I am pretty choosy about what we make though. And I make projections ahead of time for sure, so we dont waste time making things to sell at a loss. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3365
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 05:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Step 1 is to make sure it is profitable.
Step 2 is to make sure there is room in the market for your sales, and that you can sell in a reasonable amount of time.
No point in building a profitable item that is hard to sell.
|
SJ Astralana
Syncore
38
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Posted - 2014.04.03 08:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
I routinely build battleships at 2mil an hour. There was a time when large rigs were my best money makers but for the past year, especially after tieracide recovered, it's been large hulls. Large rigs still do better markup, but because I'm very well capitalised, large hulls make more money at a lower markup. Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1279
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Posted - 2014.04.03 10:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alright, let's bring some actual numbers into this:
http://imgur.com/mK0NkjS
Battleships, good BPO/BPCs, minerals bought via buy orders, ships sold via sell orders.
That window looks like you REALLY should start building Hyperions, however, you first need to look at some other values.
Let's check the market for Hyperions: http://imgur.com/GldxDhD
what does that tell you ? today, hyperions are spiking and at 220m ISK. a price of 200m ISK is a more reasonable price you need to expect at the moment of your sale. people are really good at driving down the margin. they panic and try to sell ASAP to catch it, driving down the margin by undercutting deep. some people have access to "free" minerals and don't care about the current price and sell at whatever they consider a "nice" price. a reason to be very carefull about making and selling hyperions.
what else do we know about hyperions ? is there a hyperion doctrine out there ? where lot's of them go pop ? nope. there is not. you can check zkillboard. Hyperions are solo/smallscale boats that never die in huge numbers. that is a reason why you may not want to sell them (in jita)
back to my first screenshot. the SVR value is interesting. it tells you how long it's gonna take you to build the daily turnover for the jita market (in the screenshot, it's the daily average over the last 7 days). An SVR value of 3.64 for hyperions tells you that you need 3.64 production lines running 24/7 to cover everything sold in jita. that's not very much. with 7m ISK/hr you can expect a lot of competition for a market with very little demand. do you really consider this a good market ?
Last, but not least: the Hyperion Alliastra Edition. That ship explains a part of the demand. people buy it to have it in their hangar, not to go out and lead it to a glorious death. The demand is a one time thing and not constant. Does that sound lucrative in the long run ?
Last but not least: Transport. You need two Freighters for a 1 day batch of battleships. That's a lot of work. You can't even go #yolo and put everything in one freighter, it simply won't fit. Does that sound like fun ? 2 (1.8 or so if you run it 24/7) freighter roundtrips per 24 hours. For Fuel Blocks, it's one Roundtrip every 3 Days. Yes, you can pay Red Frog or PushX to do the work for you, but it may take a while (during which you are not generating wealth) and it's gonna eat your margin.
I made Abaddons, Rokhs, Hyperions and Maelstroms a few days before the patch and sold them for absolutely crazy prices, but that was a one time thing.
TL:DR:
don't make ships for jita unless you are really sure that you can be online all the time for freighter runs and undercutting.
GRRR Goons |
Sister Hyde
Kaleidoscopes for the Blind
0
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Posted - 2014.04.03 12:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Alright, let's bring some actual numbers into this:
An SVR value of 3.64 for hyperions tells you that you need 3.64 production lines running 24/7 to cover everything sold in jita.
I believe there's a mistake in your otherwise helpful post: AFAIK, the SVR tells you how many manufacturers (producing on all 11 lines) it takes to satisfy demand in the region. There are about 40 Hyperions sold in Jita each day, a single manufacturer couldn't possibly deliver that. |
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Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
192
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Alright, let's bring some actual numbers into this: http://imgur.com/mK0NkjSBattleships, good BPO/BPCs, minerals bought via buy orders, ships sold via sell orders. That window looks like you REALLY should start building Hyperions, however, you first need to look at some other values. Let's check the market for Hyperions: http://imgur.com/GldxDhDwhat does that tell you ? today, hyperions are spiking and at 220m ISK. a price of 200m ISK is a more reasonable price you need to expect at the moment of your sale. people are really good at driving down the margin. they panic and try to sell ASAP to catch it, driving down the margin by undercutting deep. some people have access to "free" minerals and don't care about the current price and sell at whatever they consider a "nice" price. a reason to be very carefull about making and selling hyperions. what else do we know about hyperions ? is there a hyperion doctrine out there ? where lot's of them go pop ? nope. there is not. you can check zkillboard. Hyperions are solo/smallscale boats that never die in huge numbers. that is a reason why you may not want to sell them (in jita) back to my first screenshot. the SVR value is interesting. it tells you how long it's gonna take you to build the daily turnover for the jita market (in the screenshot, it's the daily average over the last 7 days). An SVR value of 3.64 for hyperions tells you that you need 3.64 production lines running 24/7 to cover everything sold in jita. that's not very much. with 7m ISK/hr you can expect a lot of competition for a market with very little demand. do you really consider this a good market ? Last, but not least: the Hyperion Alliastra Edition. That ship explains a part of the demand. people buy it to have it in their hangar, not to go out and lead it to a glorious death. The demand is a one time thing and not constant. Does that sound lucrative in the long run ? Last but not least: Transport. You need two Freighters for a 1 day batch of battleships. That's a lot of work. You can't even go #yolo and put everything in one freighter, it simply won't fit. Does that sound like fun ? 2 (1.8 or so if you run it 24/7) freighter roundtrips per 24 hours. For Fuel Blocks, it's one Roundtrip every 3 Days. Yes, you can pay Red Frog or PushX to do the work for you, but it may take a while (during which you are not generating wealth) and it's gonna eat your margin. I made Abaddons, Rokhs, Hyperions and Maelstroms a few days before the patch and sold them for absolutely crazy prices, but that was a one time thing. TL:DR: don't make ships for jita unless you are really sure that you can be online all the time for freighter runs and undercutting.
I don't know what fuel blocks you're running but I use 2 freighters a day, not 1 per 3 days. |
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think the real issue is the best place for anyone to make production isk is in 0.0, however, the issue is that hot drop and cloaking mechanics make it pretty well impossible to accomplish.
CCP needs to either remove the ability for cloakers to hotdrop, or set a timer on afk cloaking so the account times out. After all, what are these big risks we keep hearing the PVP pilots taking in 0.0?
Any 6 mo. old cloaking noob can pretty much lock down isk / mining production in a system for as long as they are willing to get on after down time. It's stupid, and the problem is compounded even more by allowing people to pay for alt accounts with isk. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sister Hyde wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Alright, let's bring some actual numbers into this:
An SVR value of 3.64 for hyperions tells you that you need 3.64 production lines running 24/7 to cover everything sold in jita.
I believe there's a mistake in your otherwise helpful post: AFAIK, the SVR tells you how many manufacturers (producing on all 11 lines) it takes to satisfy demand in the region. There are about 40 Hyperions sold in Jita each day, a single manufacturer couldn't possibly deliver that.
3.64 is the average daily SVR for the last week
making 40 hyperions takes 5d 9h 31m 25s of manufacturing (PE 20) resulting in an SVR of 5.something. there are less than 40 hyperions sold per day in jita if you ignore the spike from the new skins. so 3.64 makes sense.
Quote:I don't know what fuel blocks you're running but I use 2 freighters a day, not 1 per 3 days.
i was using a batch size of 2000 production runs (80.000 blocks) as my reference. 1.something bn ISK, ~400k m-¦. safe in an AFK freighter. GRRR Goons |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Muffet McStrudel wrote:I think the real issue is the best place for anyone to make production isk is in 0.0, however, the issue is that hot drop and cloaking mechanics make it pretty well impossible to accomplish.
CCP needs to either remove the ability for cloakers to hotdrop, or set a timer on afk cloaking so the account times out. After all, what are these big risks we keep hearing the PVP pilots taking in 0.0?
Any 6 mo. old cloaking noob can pretty much lock down isk / mining production in a system for as long as they are willing to get on after down time. It's stupid, and the problem is compounded even more by allowing people to pay for alt accounts with isk.
production is completely safe from AFK cloakies and hotdrops. however, production is not worth it, your margin is no bigger than in highsec and there are many factors that cut into it.
with current game mechanics it's stupid to make anything but caps, supercaps and maybe T2 production from BPOs in nullsec. GRRR Goons |
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Muffet McStrudel wrote:I think the real issue is the best place for anyone to make production isk is in 0.0, however, the issue is that hot drop and cloaking mechanics make it pretty well impossible to accomplish.
CCP needs to either remove the ability for cloakers to hotdrop, or set a timer on afk cloaking so the account times out. After all, what are these big risks we keep hearing the PVP pilots taking in 0.0?
Any 6 mo. old cloaking noob can pretty much lock down isk / mining production in a system for as long as they are willing to get on after down time. It's stupid, and the problem is compounded even more by allowing people to pay for alt accounts with isk. production is completely safe from AFK cloakies and hotdrops. however, production is not worth it, your margin is no bigger than in highsec and there are many factors that cut into it. with current game mechanics it's stupid to make anything but caps, supercaps and maybe T2 production from BPOs in nullsec.
I would argue if you can't mine the minerals for production in 0.0, production is hardly "safe". I've found certain hulls and basic T1 modules to be quite profitable in 0.0
Only a crazy or unemployed man would move his T2 BPO to null to produce on-site. BPC's ok. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:I would argue if you can't mine the minerals for production in 0.0, production is hardly "safe". I've found certain hulls and basic T1 modules to be quite profitable in 0.0
nullsec mining is something different.
Quote:Only a crazy or unemployed man would move his T2 BPO to null to produce on-site. BPC's ok.
moving T2 BPOs through null or lowsec is a bazillion times safer than moving them through highsec. you are safe as long as you always and under all circumstances keep a JC and a blops in the station with the BPO. GRRR Goons |
Perkin Warbeck
Black Watch Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 22:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Darkateyer Baker wrote:Okay but what type of ammo drones and rigs should I go for? I need specific ones to maximize my profits
If you are making T1 ammo then start with laser crystals. A lot of missioners use them because they don't break like their T2 counterparts. T1 drones would be Gallente and Minmatar light, meds,heavies and sentries (also electronic warfare drones). I'd go with sentries at first as a lot of people do not train T2 sentries for a fair while. Remember drones are being changed in the summer expansion.
Ships can be profitable but you need a well researched BPO which means you either need access to a POS or do your research in a low/null sec station. Even then the margins aren't great.
Don't mine your own minerals. It's opportunity cost is unacceptable.
Best of luck. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1289
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 23:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Did you just suggest that he should produce something that never needs to be replaced once bought? GRRR Goons |
Perkin Warbeck
Black Watch Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 04:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Did you just suggest that he should produce something that never needs to be replaced once bought?
Yup. Newer players will always buy them. He just wanted to make isk not a lot of isk |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2463
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 04:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tech 1 ships are only profitable to build if you have near-perfect trade skills and trade-related standings. Don't try otherwise.
Tech 2 ships are often quite profitable if you can react quickly to changes in demand. I made a couple billion building Oneiros hulls when demand from Goonswarm Federation pushed their price into the stratosphere a couple months back. But you need to really understand the market, or you can get burned badly on these. (I'm sitting on dozens of ship blueprints now that are not even close to profitable to build due to market condition changes, such as Symmetry-decryptor Arazu BPCs). https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
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