Originally by: Tuxford

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Originally by: Ithildin

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The Vindicator has about 33% better agility than any other battleship.

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Damnit I specifically looked for the agility. Seems weird though I would have just given it less mass. It is more agile than mega but does travel slower with an ab or mwd though.

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Originally by: dalman

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Your post pretty much shows the issues.
So, some points:

The DOT graph is with (the gimped) EMP ammo... With T2 ammo projectiles do more DOT than blasters.

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Originally by: dalman

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Originally by: Nifel

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Originally by: dalman

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Your post pretty much shows the issues.
So, some points:

The DOT graph is with (the gimped) EMP ammo... With T2 ammo projectiles do more DOT than blasters.

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Is that with blasters using T2 ammo as well?

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Yes.

(note)I'm not sure that a 800 would do more DOT than a neutron if you take reload time into account (would need to do the math on that), as the blaster can hold more charges. But without taking reload into account, AC do more DOT than blasters.

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Originally by: dalman

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Neutron:
4.2x damagemod
7.88s ROF
4.2/7.88 = 0.533x normalized damagemod

800:
2.31x damagemod
5.63s ROF, * 0.75 from tempest bonus = 4.2225s ROF
2.31/4.2225 = 0.547x normalized damagemod = 2.5% better

So, using T2 ammo where they have same base damage, the AC have higher raw damage. And looking at lower ones, the difference is bigger:

Electron: 0.4667 normalized
Dual425: 0.4889 normalized = 5% better.

And this is the problem.
As the ACs have much better range, much better fitting reqs and much better cap use, even with the changes to blasters.

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Originally by: Wizie

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Originally by: Nifel

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Originally by: dalman

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Neutron:
4.2x damagemod
7.88s ROF
4.2/7.88 = 0.533x normalized damagemod

800:
2.31x damagemod
5.63s ROF, * 0.75 from tempest bonus = 4.2225s ROF
2.31/4.2225 = 0.547x normalized damagemod = 2.5% better

So, using T2 ammo where they have same base damage, the AC have higher raw damage. And looking at lower ones, the difference is bigger:

Electron: 0.4667 normalized
Dual425: 0.4889 normalized = 5% better.

And this is the problem.
As the ACs have much better range, much better fitting reqs and much better cap use, even with the changes to blasters.

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Ah right... you wanna play the ships game. Then neutrons still do more damage since the megathron has 1 more turret. And again... the problems will not be with blasters after these changes (provided they turn up good which they atm do look to be), it'll be with the blaster ships.

Gallente needs a blaster ship that accelerates fast and has good top speed. It might need a slight increase in range on blasters. Testing would be needed to decide that.

And while ACs certainly have better range they most certainly don't have much better optimal as that honour falls to lasers. ACs have much better falloff meaning at the optimal + falloff range it does 50% damage on average which in terms of raw dps sucks vs what lasers put out for example.

The grass really isn't greener on the other side Dalman.

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Can easily fit the following.

7 ion IIs
(1 free slot)

100mn MWD II
cap injector
x5 web
j5 disruptor

large rep II
large accom (with AWU 5 you can fit 2 rep IIs)
Mag field stab II
Mag field stab II
Faction hardner exp (15mil)
2 eanm II

Fits


With a -0.3 % implant for cpu. You can upgrade to 3 eanm II (for cost) or 3 ntypes.


Fit 3 heavy ogre IIs
2 Heavy web drones. Or even 1 heavy web drone and 5 light drones.

This ship outdamages any tempest upto 15K.. with NULL ammo. Will eat up a Tempest under 10K. Tanks as well as any solo Tempest simply because a tempest will NOT tank a 7 ion II 3 ogre/zerker II blasterthron.

Its 830 dps from guns alone.

A Tempest usin Hail is easily 500m/s slower than an MWD Megathron.
A Tempest to do in the vicinity of 500 dps from guns (and emp/barrage ammo) needs TWO gyros.. means it can only fit 2 energized adaptive nanos.. and will tank quite badly.
A Tempest is faster than a Mega.. but not by much. One heavy web drone should slow him down enough for you to guarantee getting in web range.

You still want a boost after this? Maybe you need to fly/try it first. Cuz I can guarantee that in a few weeks after these changes. There will be posts about how a Tempest is no longer good enough up close.. And a 1400 temp is a pain to fit/fly. And a Tempest needs boosts.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: dalman

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Neutron:
4.2x damagemod
7.88s ROF
4.2/7.88 = 0.533x normalized damagemod

800:
2.31x damagemod
5.63s ROF, * 0.75 from tempest bonus = 4.2225s ROF
2.31/4.2225 = 0.547x normalized damagemod = 2.5% better

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Dalman, why are you comparing T2 neutron blaster cannons without the 25% damage bonus from the megathron to T2 800mm autocannons with the 25% rate fo fire bonus (33% DPS bonus) from the tempest?
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were trying to mislead tux and make blasters look worse than they actually are.

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Originally by: Gronsak

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Wizie your also making a few mistakes, ur considering all bs vs all BS.

what about a tempest VS 3 HACs and a megathron [with the changes] VS 3 hacs??

the tempests 2 nos is really gona shine there, the 2 large nos effectively shuts down one hac. the ecm multispec has a >40% chance of shutting the seond down and u shoot the third!!!! those two nos your down playing but they are very very helpfull not only to sustain ur own tank but to shut down that of your targets! with the setup u suggested the mega can kill 1 hac at a time and take full dmg from the rest

and as you know close range ships are ment to be able to be used "solo" in which case the nos is a massive advantage not just something to help your tank!

agree?

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Originally by: Gronsak

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Edited by: Gronsak on 07/05/2006 17:22:32

Originally by: Nifel

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Dude! I want ACs to do 5000 raw damage because when I fit all ECMs in medslots and Civilian Gatling Autocannons I still lose out vs a Megathron. How's that for fair uh!?

Agree?

Mixing in other mods really has no relevance here.

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they are empty slots on your AC boat, you want us to close our eyes and not consider them?
yes lets balance 6AC vs 7Blasters and not take into account the megas extra drone bay, or the tempests sig, or the dmg types of the guns, or the FEKING LEFT OVER SLOTS

ofcourse you consider what can be placed in other slots! it HAS to be considered!

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Originally by: Gronsak

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Edited by: Gronsak on 07/05/2006 17:22:32

Originally by: Nifel

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Dude! I want ACs to do 5000 raw damage because when I fit all ECMs in medslots and Civilian Gatling Autocannons I still lose out vs a Megathron. How's that for fair uh!?

Agree?

Mixing in other mods really has no relevance here.

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they are empty slots on your AC boat, you want us to close our eyes and not consider them?
yes lets balance 6AC vs 7Blasters and not take into account the megas extra drone bay, or the tempests sig, or the dmg types of the guns, or the FEKING LEFT OVER SLOTS

ofcourse you consider what can be placed in other slots! it HAS to be considered!

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