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Degale
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Posted - 2006.05.07 02:36:00 -
[31]
energy neuts are fine, they do kill small ships cap fast, but they kill your cap. Nos are a different story, they should steal a percent of the enemies cap. That way the enemy's cap will still die faster, but it will never completely drain a cap on its own. Nos + a Neut would be a very nice combination.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.07 05:01:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 07/05/2006 05:02:08
Originally by: Scalor Valentis What god given right does battleship haver to be > "smaller lesser classes" in all situations by one simpple overpowered mod called heavy nosferatu?
What makes a frig have the right to stand up in small numbers to one Larger ship? You are a bit too drunk on Luke taking out the Death Star with a X-Wing. EVE isn't Star Wars. People play this game for entertainment and when a small ship can stand a chance to defeat a ship that cost someone a hell of a lot more time and effort to aquire then you just utterly destroy the risk vs reward of PvP combat.
God.. given right... bah your hyperbole is so stupid you might as well cry me a river too.
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kyguard
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Posted - 2006.05.07 05:16:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
What makes a frig have the right to stand up in small numbers to one Larger ship? You are a bit too drunk on Luke taking out the Death Star with a X-Wing. EVE isn't Star Wars. People play this game for entertainment and when a small ship can stand a chance to defeat a ship that cost someone a hell of a lot more time and effort to aquire then you just utterly destroy the risk vs reward of PvP combat.
God.. given right... bah your hyperbole is so stupid you might as well cry me a river too.
That... is the most beautiful thing I've heard. Bravo!
God is on the side with the best artillery. |
Morrigan Starlover
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Posted - 2006.05.07 05:21:00 -
[34]
Until all the ships cost the same amount, I think battleships pretty much have to be much better than frigs and cruisers.
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Glyn Davish
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Posted - 2006.05.07 05:53:00 -
[35]
If one NOS is the only thing keeping your shiny Battleship from being killed by one or two lowly frigates than you should probably be playing another game.
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2006.05.07 09:17:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tuhc Nem *snip*
You really need to cool off, you know
There are no uber starfighters in EVE, live with it
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Mahavy Seth
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Posted - 2006.05.07 09:26:00 -
[37]
Main Problem: all ppls like and fit ganking and tanking setup, then whine on the forum when special setup *****them...
You all fit so many gank setup that CCP have incresed the hit points of ships for make combat last longer, and increased the stacking penalty...
NOS can be countered, and also EW...
I am reading so **** things on this forum that I am vomiting... Now CCP will nerf EW cause Ganking ships are too susceptible to EW... That insane!
Sig dimensions must be no more than 400x120. Please mail [email protected] for info - Cathath |
Capt planet
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Posted - 2006.05.07 10:09:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Capt planet on 07/05/2006 10:09:23
Originally by: Mahavy Seth Main Problem: all ppls like and fit ganking and tanking setup, then whine on the forum when special setup *****them...
You all fit so many gank setup that CCP have incresed the hit points of ships for make combat last longer, and increased the stacking penalty...
NOS can be countered, and also EW...
I am reading so **** things on this forum that I am vomiting... Now CCP will nerf EW cause Ganking ships are too susceptible to EW... That insane!
Jamming is overpowered the way it is currently anyway, any ship can load up mid-slots with jammers which brings the whole fight down to a contest of luck, yeah i sure have fun knowing every time i fight its all down to the luck of the "jam"
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.07 10:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth Main Problem: all ppls like and fit ganking and tanking setup, then whine on the forum when special setup *****them...
You all fit so many gank setup that CCP have incresed the hit points of ships for make combat last longer, and increased the stacking penalty...
NOS can be countered, and also EW...
I am reading so **** things on this forum that I am vomiting... Now CCP will nerf EW cause Ganking ships are too susceptible to EW... That insane!
Just read your post on the other thread that seems to be dedicated to this topic and that was a load of rubbish too. Looks like fitting a full rack of nos and a bunch of ew in mids is no longer going to allow you to win eve. Sorry about that.
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Mahavy Seth
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Posted - 2006.05.07 10:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Originally by: Mahavy Seth Main Problem: all ppls like and fit ganking and tanking setup, then whine on the forum when special setup *****them...
You all fit so many gank setup that CCP have incresed the hit points of ships for make combat last longer, and increased the stacking penalty...
NOS can be countered, and also EW...
I am reading so **** things on this forum that I am vomiting... Now CCP will nerf EW cause Ganking ships are too susceptible to EW... That insane!
Just read your post on the other thread that seems to be dedicated to this topic and that was a load of rubbish too. Looks like fitting a full rack of nos and a bunch of ew in mids is no longer going to allow you to win eve. Sorry about that.
sgb
The problem is that your Animatar brain do not allow you to handle more than guns and repairers... you have problems in handling other pieace of equipment, so all this complex stuff is making you mad...
Sig dimensions must be no more than 400x120. Please mail [email protected] for info - Cathath |
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.07 10:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
The problem is that your Animatar brain do not allow you to handle more than guns and repairers... you have problems in handling other pieace of equipment, so all this complex stuff is making you mad...
haha, not bad, not bad at all.
I admit i do follow the Brutor philosophy of combat rather a lot, however let me try and explain my argument to you. This game is about balance, with no one ship in a class being better than all the others, and no one module being better than all others. Exceptions to this are of course tackling equipment, which is pretty much a given in any pvp.
Right then, the problem i have with ECM, and to a lesser extent nos (i am a convert from a nos fan), is that these modules require no skill (player or character) and are considerably more effective than any other module you could put in their place.
I am therefore not in favour of nerfing them into uselessness, but merely balancing them to reflect relative use compared to other similar modules.
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.05.07 13:11:00 -
[42]
Edited by: LUKEC on 07/05/2006 13:11:34 Edited by: LUKEC on 07/05/2006 13:11:02 my domi has: 6x med beam II sensor booster, 2x 60% backup, warp scram and web 7x wcs
And your frig still doesn't have a chance. Happy?
Die, die, die. |
smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.07 14:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 07/05/2006 13:11:34 Edited by: LUKEC on 07/05/2006 13:11:02 my domi has: 6x med beam II sensor booster, 2x 60% backup, warp scram and web 7x wcs
And your frig still doesn't have a chance. Happy?
I'm so tempted to start flying setups like this. Goes against the grain, but it'd give the local blobs something to thing about. I'm thinking 6 sbs in high tho :)
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.05.07 15:58:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tuhc Nem
Originally by: Gronsak
they should not be i win buttons of eve, but they should stand a better chance in most situations compiared to smaller ships
reason: a LOT more skill intensive! more expensive! more risk thus needs more rewards!
And what do you get for all that extra money and skills? A ship with a lot more versitility.
By versitile I don't mean "1 setup fits all," I mean that you have a lot more of a choice of what to put on that ship. It's just that most people think that because it can fit large guns that it has to fit them.
Battleships already stand a higher chance of surviving an encounter that a frigate or cruiser can't, like higher level missions and complexes, and fleet pvp, due to all that extra armor/shield.
You can just as easily set your battleship up for frigate-hunting, or cruiser-hunting... But then you stand less of a chance against other battleships. And that IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. This game is about predicting who you'll be fighting and countering what you think they might be using. If you run into a situation you can't readily escape, then I hope you can think on your feet fast enough to run away. And even if you don't, well... You shouldn't be flying something you can't afford to lose, should you?
Yup, very true
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.05.07 16:27:00 -
[45]
Those who claim that Nos rapes Frigs and HACs and allowas the Domi to actually *gasp* stand a change againt thee allmighty Raven just need to learn to play. Nos has counters if you just bother looking for em. 1.1 frig shouldn't be able to tke out a BS. Most BS have 1 nos, Domi usually has 4, sometimes 6 (6 is a pain to fit). So get soem friends 2. Stay out of the Nos range! 3.If you're flying a HAC, fit a cap booster. I've seen some wraps about a Zealot beating a Nos domi with the help of a cap booster 4. Fit your won Nos! Small and med Nos funvtion as anti-Nos modules too. They have shorter cycle than big Nos and allow you to regain cap 5.Use the other really overpowered module, ECM. If it's jammed it can't Nos you. 6.FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING HOLY STOP MAKING "NuRF t3H n0zz!!11!"¦-THEREADS! THIS MEANS YOU! THEY'RE REALLY ANNOYING! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2006.05.07 17:47:00 -
[46]
Nosferatus make Maya Rkell cry.
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Tuhc Nem
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Posted - 2006.05.07 18:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Jon Xylur Those who claim that Nos rapes Frigs and HACs and allowas the Domi to actually *gasp* stand a change againt thee allmighty Raven just need to learn to play. Nos has counters if you just bother looking for em.
Where in your magical fantasy world does a frigate stand a chance of destorying a battleship that has 4-6 heavy Nos and a full complement of drones? *Provided that the BS pilot has any brain or skills*
As it stands, having a full rack of heavy Nos and some other form of DPS (other people or drones) is the "I-win" button in EVE. Two reasons, because it takes about 1 brain cell to press F1-F4 and watch your enemy shrivle and die, and that there is no real way of countering it for smaller ships short of another Nos or long range tactics. And that is the issue because it severly limits the roles for those smaller ships.
Originally by: Jon Xylur
1.1 frig shouldn't be able to tke out a BS. Most BS have 1 nos, Domi usually has 4, sometimes 6 (6 is a pain to fit). So get soem friends
That's is usually, if not always the case in fleet operations. You will always have some sort of scout and tackler ahead of the fleet. What I'm saying is that why should your lone battleship be able to shrug off those tacklers just because of 1 module? Like you said, bring friends if you're going out in a battleship fitted for anti-BS combat.
Besides, in real life there were some frigates specifically designed to take out battleships. They were called destroyers.
Originally by: Jon Xylur 2. Stay out of the Nos range!
Yes, sniping is a way to stay out of Nos range, and it's quite effective. However, how is a tackler going to stay out of the 21km range the Nos has and still be able to keep you where you are?
Originally by: Jon Xylur 3.If you're flying a HAC, fit a cap booster. I've seen some wraps about a Zealot beating a Nos domi with the help of a cap booster
The difference between a cap booster and a Nos is that, if the particular BS pilot has any semblece of a tank on, you'll run out of cap charges long before he has to run out of cap to run his Nos. Unless of course you have hundreds of m3 of cap charges... But then, who does that on a regular basis? People who go out pvping? No. It's people who expect to run into a heavy Nosing ship and fit to counter it.
Originally by: Jon Xylur 4. Fit your won Nos! Small and med Nos funvtion as anti-Nos modules too. They have shorter cycle than big Nos and allow you to regain cap
What I'm arguing is why do you have to fit a Nos to counter another Nos? I'll take my frigate for example... In order to break 1 medium Nos from a cruiser I attack, I have to run my own small Nos, and 2 cap power relays. That's 3 slots in my already limited setup for tackling that could go to something better. And I'm not counting running my armor repper. That would take me another CPR.
Originally by: Jon Xylur 5.Use the other really overpowered module, ECM. If it's jammed it can't Nos you.
This is a separate issue which doesn't conscern this thread.
Originally by: Jon Xylur 6.FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING HOLY STOP MAKING "NuRF t3H n0zz!!11!"¦-THEREADS! THIS MEANS YOU! THEY'RE REALLY ANNOYING!
Why not? I have a right to voice my opinion, and so does everyone else who posted in this thread. As long as people post good, thoughtout, and coherent responses I don't see why we can't have debate on the topic.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.05.07 19:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Just read your post on the other thread that seems to be dedicated to this topic and that was a load of rubbish too. Looks like fitting a full rack of nos and a bunch of ew in mids is no longer going to allow you to win eve.
SUch fit is never allow you to win eve. Such fit is just your weird night dream. Consult with good psychiatrist to get rid of so strange dreams.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.05.07 19:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tuhc Nem
Where in your magical fantasy world does a frigate stand a chance of destorying a battleship that has 4-6 heavy Nos and a full complement of drones? *Provided that the BS pilot has any brain or skills*
As it stands, having a full rack of heavy Nos and some other form of DPS (other people or drones) is the "I-win" button in EVE.
Dude! This is Eve. Not your beloved WoW. There is no i-win button. As does not exist reliable BS fir with 6 Heavy NOS. Play more, my young friend, play more. Possibly some time you will understand difference between your fantasy and our reality.
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Dhin Xar
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Posted - 2006.05.07 19:47:00 -
[50]
Just remember just how much more a single fitted battleship costs compared to smaller ships (based on actual production time/cost, not hyperinflated T2 market prices). We're talkings tens of cruisers of hundreds of frigates here. Just how diminished should the ship effectiveness to cost ratio be for these things? Even T2 ships, when looking at what they actually cost to produce, don't fair all that badly. |
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.05.07 20:03:00 -
[51]
Every not bright guy wants to kill BS in frigate. It is the only way for him to be Very Importnt Person.
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Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.07 20:04:00 -
[52]
From an RP and balance standpoint, I think that nos should have a "max cap draw percentage", each nos device would be limited in what percentage of the target ships cap would be drawn per cycle. So Heavy Nos against a BS would draw at standard rate, but heavy nos against a frig would draw at just a little more than what a small nos would do, and against a cruiser/BC would draw in the range of a Medium Nos. That would still give someone fitting specifically for nos'ing the ability to use their setup (5 Nos of comparable size to the target ship is going to mess anyones day up), but take away the "insta-drain" effect that Heavy nos can have on smaller ships. Heavy Nos should be like heavy guns, harder to use on targets smaller than what it was built for.
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Tuhc Nem
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Posted - 2006.05.07 21:46:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Iberi
Dude! This is Eve. Not your beloved WoW. There is no i-win button. As does not exist reliable BS fir with 6 Heavy NOS. Play more, my young friend, play more. Possibly some time you will understand difference between your fantasy and our reality.
Beloved WoW? What the **** are you talking about? I quit WoW to get away from morons like you. Not only did you not contribute anything to this thread with your moronic post, but you didn't even have the common decency to insult me with proper grammar.
And yes, Nos is the current "I-win" button in terms of cost efficivness as compared to skill requirments and difficulty of use. Take the Domi for example. Able to fit at least 4 heavy Nos while keeping its DPS at a level good enough to take out pretty much anything it meets. Combine that with some ECMs and you have a horrible monster that will consume your soul and kill your children. All this is possible with just moderate skills in battleships, energy emission systems, and electronic warfare. And with those level of skills a Domi pilot is nearly as efficient as other battleships which require much higher levels in gunnery/missile operations and other support skills.
Nos is supposed to be a support module. It isn't meant to be a substitute for conventional weaponry.
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.05.07 22:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tuhc Nem
Originally by: Gronsak
they should not be i win buttons of eve, but they should stand a better chance in most situations compiared to smaller ships
reason: a LOT more skill intensive! more expensive! more risk thus needs more rewards!
And what do you get for all that extra money and skills? A ship with a lot more versitility.
By versitile I don't mean "1 setup fits all," I mean that you have a lot more of a choice of what to put on that ship. It's just that most people think that because it can fit large guns that it has to fit them.
Battleships already stand a higher chance of surviving an encounter that a frigate or cruiser can't, like higher level missions and complexes, and fleet pvp, due to all that extra armor/shield.
You can just as easily set your battleship up for frigate-hunting, or cruiser-hunting... But then you stand less of a chance against other battleships. And that IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. This game is about predicting who you'll be fighting and countering what you think they might be using. If you run into a situation you can't readily escape, then I hope you can think on your feet fast enough to run away. And even if you don't, well... You shouldn't be flying something you can't afford to lose, should you?
look at the frigate ... it IS basicaly a one size fits all ship ... frig guns track and damage all ship sizes very well (except other frigs maybe). they do have usualy one setup for all targets ...
considering a bs, bs sized guns track only another bs class ship reasonably well. true you an fit many more options considering pg,cpu and slot count, but are all of those options reasonable ?
any more whines about nos ? ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well |
Altai Saker
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Posted - 2006.05.07 22:51:00 -
[55]
Why should nos be the instant win button against small ships? Nothing else is...
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.07 22:51:00 -
[56]
I do think nos should be changed.
On the other hand, I think frigs and cruisers need a 25% and 50% damage reduction, respectively.
^^
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.05.07 23:10:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes. I'm sure the BS supremacists want anti-nos mods which it's unfeasable for frigates to fit.
Why not? Frig supremacists want to ensure all BS pilots have to fit anti-frigate modules that are unfeasable for a battleship to fit?
Why should frigates get a "one size fits all"?
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.07 23:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes. I'm sure the BS supremacists want anti-nos mods which it's unfeasable for frigates to fit.
Why not? Frig supremacists want to ensure all BS pilots have to fit anti-frigate modules that are unfeasable for a battleship to fit?
Why should frigates get a "one size fits all"?
QFE
Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.05.07 23:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Harry Voyager
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yes. I'm sure the BS supremacists want anti-nos mods which it's unfeasable for frigates to fit.
Why not? Frig supremacists want to ensure all BS pilots have to fit anti-frigate modules that are unfeasable for a battleship to fit?
Why should frigates get a "one size fits all"?
QFE
I'm afraid I'm not up on my acrynims anymore. What does QFE mean?
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Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.08 00:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: ragewind
Originally by: Altai Saker Why should nos be the instant win button against small ships? Nothing else is...
why should any T1 frig think it can stand a chance against any BS.
its like a child playing rugby or american football with a world class player never going to win and it shouldent
And it isn't... A lone T1 frig isn't going to deal enough damage to bother a well setup BS significantly. In groups though, it's perfectly reasonable that a group of smaller ships should be able to take out a single larger ship that's not setup to fight them. That's what escort ships are for.
What's unreasonable is that the heavy Nos works just as well against tiny ships as it does against big ships. No other weapon that I know of works that way, they all sacrifice effectiveness against small targets for effectiveness against large targets.
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