I have never heard of this "ECM" contraption that you are mentioning, nor do I want anything to do with it!

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly? Hoes the trigger on a gun being affected?

Also we have these lush properties such as lockable targets. Why aren't they just affected rather than the trigger?

ECM is voodoo whichever side of the fence you're on.

The fact it just "disables your guns" is the heart of the matter.

So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly?

There are two simple solutions to FALCON

Auto-targetting missiles

Bombs

If implementations are made to allow this and you actually manage to get a kill this way, I will personally give you 10 biliion ISK

OPTICAL TRACKING COMPUTER I - By predicting the trajectory of targets, it helps to boost the tracking speed and range of turrets. This module can be loaded with scripts to increase its effectiveness in certain areas.

You would think by its name at least it would be able to visually track the computer and feed the tracking information to your guns. Being able to shot at a target without an electronic lock.

When jammed, [...] your overview is jumping around.

If implementations are made to allow this and you actually manage to get a kill this way, I will personally give you 10 biliion ISK

ECM bursts should be silent and unflagged in high sec.

Just for the lols when my hulk driver gets to laugh at the WTF from the nine Catalyst pods that just tried to gank him.

Mr Epeen

I see no one has suggested ECCM, Remote Sensor Booster, ECM Busts, Target Breakers, ECM drones on hostile and the many other counters that exist....Also D-SCAN

Example if solo: Falcon/griffins on D-Scan==> Am I fit? Do I have the sensor strength to resist?

Yes = Give no f**ks;
No = Clean up what you can/ bookmark/align in preparation to warp off.

Is this game really that hard that everything need a nerf because..#toomucheffort?

I see no one has suggested ECCM, Remote Sensor Booster, ECM Busts, Target Breakers, ECM drones on hostile and the many other counters that exist....Also D-SCAN

Missing the nub of the issue in my opinion.

Tracking disruption can be countered with a tracking computer, or tracking enhancers that negate or exceed its effects. If this negation fails you can still fire your weapons - and with the use of overheated prop to adjust range, slingshots etc you are of course in a worse position but still have a chance to hit.

Similar with remote damps, even more so since they have been rebalanced. You have the items to negate the effects, but if you don't succeed, you still have the ability - through pilot skill and maneuvering - to get close enough to your target to lock them.

Target painters are a little different in that they don't disable your ability to react but make you more vulnerable. You can of course use drugs, afterburners, tank etc to mitigate the effect but once again, if you fail to do so, you still have the chance through player ability to alter your orbit, overheat your tank, shut off mwd etc so you can fight your fight or go down doing some damage.

Then consider ECM. Once again we have modules or skills that can mitigate the chances of being jammed, but where it differs is that if your negation fails, you are unable through player skill to do anything to counter its effect. So you die or leave. Both are acceptable, but neither are a fight.

Yes you can run away, and I agree with your d-scan comment, if you see it on scan and don't have the sensor strength don't be a martyr, just leave. But there is something amiss about the balance of ability once "e-warred", to continue fighting.

Are EM missiles OP because you didnt tank against EM?

EVE is rock paper scissors lizard spock.

Every fit has a counter fit.

You have a counter to ECM. Its called a Sensor Backup Array.

Fit one or two of those and you will be very hard to jam.

No need to change any game mechanics because you aren't fit against an ECM boat.

Still missing my point. I am pretty terrible at communicating so I can only try to simplify.

I already acknowledged that there are modules you can use to get around the effects of ewar. Where the disparity lies is that once the ewar is successfully applied, for instance your counter was insufficient or absent entirely. ECM is the only one where player skill does not allow you to take action and negate the effects. If you are jammed you are jammed, no angle or speed, nor any other pilot maneuver will break through that effect and allow you to continue fighting unlike every other ewar. Yes you can use fof but you are bypassing the problem of lost dps, and have not done anything to counter the effects of the ecm, ie, point, web etc dropping. I'm not even arguing that ecm shouldn't jam a ship, my argument is simply that player skill should be relevant to the applied effectiveness of the module like every other type of ewar.

If that works in your situation it is perfectly acceptable to ignore the problem and sidestep it with fof/drones/smarties, but that should not be confused with solving the problem.

I don't witch hunt for ecm, I just avoid it. My hope is that smarter minds than me will work out how to balance it in line with the others if such a thing is possible.

Still missing my point........................ I already acknowledged that there are modules you can use to get around the effects of ewar. Where the disparity lies is that once the ewar is successfully applied, for instance your counter was insufficient or absent entirely. ECM is the only one where player skill does not allow you to take action and negate the effects. If you are jammed you are jammed, no angle or speed, nor any other pilot maneuver will break through that effect and allow you to continue fighting unlike every other ewar........................................

The main things that I hate about ecm in it's current state :

RNG, it either loves you or hates you, but it is random and completely different than everything else in EVE.
ECCM, the only counter for ECM is useless if no one is trying to ECM you. At least AB/MWD/Tracking comps/Sensor boosters/Etc.. are useful even if you aren't being webed/TD/sensor damped....

like everything else in eve: you learn to play around it or you die.

scramming

webbing

wrong tank

neut


all of these have 100% of hitting you in range

ECM is the only one that has a % to fail.

Your correct. Therefore an excellent ECM counter would be:

A Falcon, with 2 ECCM and 4 Caldari jammers. Its job is to jam Falcons.

Truth is, nobody really likes Jams (I'm expecting comments like "that's not true brah" but whatevs), not even the ones doing the jamming, yeah you get a kill, but the whole "victory" just seems...empty. For a good setup, those who fly as a jammer get to contribute very little dps if any at all and although they appear on the mail they more often than not feel kinda left out of the kill club.

Think paper smothered your rock and it's over.

It's an on/off switch and is working as intended.

As it stands the jam is applied on a roll.

Aww.

Boy'd Id LOVE to pilot that ship... sure sounds like FUN!! /sarcasm

Has anyone thought about communications jamming? When hit, your chat and voice channels go down for a period of time, so you can't call in backup. Maybe ppl couldn't warp to you either.

If it has been brought up, sorry, today is too "Friday" to read that much.

This idea seems awfully familiar...

ECM should come with the compromise of breaking ALL locks on the ship too, except or the ship maintaining the jam.

Also, since the bomb launcher demonstrates the ability to launch something into the direction of travel without a lock, we should have the option of doing this with all turrets and bays when jammed so we at least have what I think the OP is asking for.

And that would be called "a fighting chance".

ECM should come with the compromise of breaking ALL locks on the ship too, except or the ship maintaining the jam.

This would force the aggressing squad to to resort to FOFs and drones, just like the target.

Also, since the bomb launcher demonstrates the ability to launch something into the direction of travel without a lock, we should have the option of doing this with all turrets and bays when jammed so we at least have what I think the OP is asking for.

And that would be called "a fighting chance".

And right here is an EVE player, because a real EVE player exhausts all possible tools to counter a problem BEFORe considering the problem 'unbalanced'.

(Not that the Op did that, just speaking in general).

Truth is, nobody really likes Jams (I'm expecting comments like "that's not true brah" but whatevs), not even the ones doing the jamming, yeah you get a kill, but the whole "victory" just seems...empty. For a good setup, those who fly as a jammer get to contribute very little dps if any at all and although they appear on the mail they more often than not feel kinda left out of the kill club.

And right here is an EVE player, because a real EVE player exhausts all possible tools to counter a problem BEFORe considering the problem 'unbalanced'.

(Not that the Op did that, just speaking in general).

Other than the fact that out of his list, only one is even close to a counter and unlike every other 'counter Ewar' module, it provides no effective benefits when used without ECM.
Really, you know better than to defend ECM's current mechanic. It's like Sov, it only endures because no-one can work out how to improve it in a way most people will be happy with, but it's terrible currently.

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Try shooting a jumbo-jet sized target moving at 2000 mps with a pea which shoots at 5 times the speed of sound from a distance of 30 kilometers without a computer