Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. I've heard people complain about the size and layout of the minnie / amarr WZ before, but not in a way that actually explains why it's an issue. Most people I've talked with cite an abundance of choke points as being the problem, because you can't go off in a fleet without rolling right through home systems. I know it's a bit of a tangent, but would you mind weighing in on the truth of this?

It seems to me that it shouldn't pose that much of a problem (barring epic intel, which will **** over any fleet) because of how quickly you can roll in and out. I mean you just warp to the next gate and it's done. Even if they see you undock it still takes time to form up. A few months back (has it really been that long?) when we were living next to the entire Gallente militia if we had business to attend to on the other side of Eha, we just rolled through without issue more often than not.

My perspective is rather biased because 9 times out of 10 our business was in Eha, and as we lived next door to them, the time it takes to form up accordingly is too short; it's not like they have a few jumps warning. Additionally, when the entire WZ is stacked in two systems (this is no longer the case) you just gotta get through the one epic home system to be in the clear, but from what I hear about your neck of the woods, it's more spread out, and your fleet would have to roll through multiple home systems, most of which are choke points. So as I've been led to believe, they can get your comp, assume with relative confidence which gates you'll have to cross to get anywhere relevant, and then stop you in your tracks.

So, pretending that Titan bridges don't exist for a moment, is that actually a problem? Or are people just exaggerating? Or is it Titan bridges which make it a problem, be enabling fleets to get to choke points?

I also am aware that these issues probably wouldn't be that big if the fleet is cruiser sized and down, but I'm just curious.

stopped reading at doomsday in lowsec

stopped reading at doomsday in lowsec

[quote=Beardon]

Let me give an example of a fleet. Amarr undocks a decent sized bc fleet. you can go about 8 jumps before you get to your target enemy fleet usually minmatar. Now i dont no what it is but getting them to fight quickly is not on their agenda. they have learned many good tricks from their top FC's such as waiting as long as possible to reach critical mass, or double checking everyones fit some such stuff, but they take FOREVER to come up with the perfect counter fleet. It always is the perfect counter. It is never the ships they want to fly its only the ships they NEED to win, why fight at all when your not gonna win? So amarr fc's have a few options. A. dock up, B. get a bridge ready /cap fleet C. Reship to counter them or in our case reship so they will fight us.

just undock with 4 omen's and clown's from PL hotdrop you as well

Awww, where did the bad hot droppers touch you on your imperial slicer?

Funny to see that some eve players do not know **** about the game.

Fact remains.

Faction warfare is not playeed by fw guys to a big extent - it is played by null and russ farmers. Those are the dominating forces.

Fw is only there to provide null guys with free isk - no other explanation suffices.

Fw is not about new players - they usually do not have 4 to 5 farming chars or use bots.

New players have a hard time even to sort out which guys to shoot or not shoot - due to OV mess. They can not even differ wts from rats.

If ccp wants more titan kills - dunno why , all farmers plex the farming chars with fw isk - it would be faster and more easy to fill a rifters cargohold with plex and blow it up.

Assigining fighters is not possible in all low sec - why is titan bridging possible in all low sec? Jump bridges are also not possible in low sec - it is useless to try to correct the mess ccp did.

What ccp is doing is killing their own player base and, in the same time, kill their own incorme, because ppl can easily plex their toons with fw farming.

And then ccp keeps asking questions like "why is eve not more popular"?

**** game mechanics - easy answer.

You and pockets are the ones bouncing silly notions off each other focusing your stupidity and complaining harder than anyone about things that arnt close to factial or even rational. Yet you are still playing.

Self defeating argument.

you are so far in your own little world its like im reading a susan black propaganda excerpt every time you post

I never noticed on how much I didn't like FW until I was out of it. Yes, I cant cockbag on gates anymore, but it's not like I dont get "instant" pvp every time I look for it. There are still small gang battles and I can still solo and not be just an F1 monkey, but now there is also the option to do so much more then the militias (outside of the old DnD) has offered me in a long time. While I don't think FW is broken, I do think it sets a damper on the potential of FW corps and alliances in its current state. Limiting what they think they can do because of plex restriction or unorganized war target fleets scattering before your larger more indoctrinated fleet, or the fear of being upclassed and upshipped by an evil pirate corporation. If the militias ever decided to organize build a solid fleet doctrine that every core corporation and alliance could get behind, they would be a force to be reckoned with and rival the strongest entities of low sec.

My .02 isk.

Yes, militia corps do not have the capacity to endlessly drop prots/absolutions and guards on t1 cruiser fleets under the guise of not being an F1 monkey in risk free PvP lol.

Rank and file DnD were F1 monkeys, rank and file Snuff Box are also F1 monkeys. Without them you wouldnt be able to have these 'much more' options.

Doesnt make them good pilots. Doesnt make the content good in and of itself.

I tried not to smack you earlier when we killed you, but you were asking for it then, and you are certainly asking for it now. Im glad you have found something you enjoy, however making objective claims about FW in comparison to sometimes blobbing or more commonly bringing 3x the ehp/s rr than the enemies dps is silly.

As for a combined force of militia and being a force to be reckoned with? Thats not even desirable. It ends up like snuff box and DnD where the bulk of people undock only for timers to be told when you press F1. Ill take my instant action at any time over that. The main reason you can go out and find action in your area is because of the conflict drivers of FW. So we both agree FW is not broken, just not on what is desirable in terms of potential end game.

Fly safe in the rank and file!

Thank you for you opinion Crosi, and I am sorry mine gives you the desire to smack talk.

Its not your opinion that made me wanna smack you, it was you criticising what ships people fly against you. And now criticising peoples objectives goals and potential in a computer game.

Enjoy your new 90% easy mode EVE.

Crosi, I am not going to get into a smack battle with you because I respect you as a person and a pilot. I'm sorry that flying Maulus or any kiting ship 'is not my cup of tea', but I will not apoligize for my thoughts on FW because I was in it for a very long time and watched one of the greatest corporations become almost inactive because of it. Corporations that are making goals and objectives like Black Fox and JustK are thriving and expanding while those stuck in the FW status quo are stagnated and losing more member then they are taking on. This isn't smacking, this is fact, I watched it happen.

Qcats became inactive because of LOL, it was FW that built them. Its interesting that most of the old guard went to LOL about the time that Qcats started expanding horizons with SoTF, boring timer fights that lead to wasted hours of waiting for something to happen.

It was the original FW that built them but when 50% your active player will not leave 8 jumps away from Nis for extended periods of time because a squid might run a plex, there is a problem. When you have the same 4 to 6 people being burnt out from constant deplexing, there is a problem. i was with them for around 3 years, I watched it all happen. I was in Qcats before DnD and after.

Kronos FW Changes

I'm surprised that this thread is still moving along. There are quite a few changes coming in just over a week. Low-sec is getting buffed a lot. The Mordus faction ships will be 99% low sec. There are warp speed module drops and lesser versions of pirate implants that will be low sec only. Wormholes will be found in low sec quite a bit more. Clone soldier tags are already a thing.

All of these I optimistically view as 'competition' for the current farmer hordes' attention. Will it be? Noone knows and anyone who claims to should be laughed at. But farmers typically follow the path of least resistance. Get on Sissi and try the changes listed. You can do novices in frigates. Do smalls in them? It's possible but it's an exercise in frustration and it almost doubles the time needed to complete the plex. You need 3x to 4x the DPS of the listed tanks on the rats in order to blow through them in a timely manner. As for the theory crafting of 'sitting at 29km off the button and moving out and cloaking?' Give it a rest. The smalls have five rats. The smalls have 7. The mediums 7-8. These things are spawning every two minutes. Your ass is not getting at 29km of bubble range for the vast majority of the timer.

We all wanted timer rollbacks or some version thereof. This is almost as good - at least for the defender. Every two minutes you spend deplexing you give the farmer an extra rat and at least three minutes needed to recover the lost ground. (Peeps with 150 DPS frigates found that small plexes were taking 25 minutes - an increase in plex time by 66%.) As I said above, predicting the meta game is silly. But I am HOPING that people will migrate over to the FW missions instead of plexing. Or just go do other things that are becoming available.

They cut the outgoing DPS of the rats by 20-40%. The tanks are significant though. They also spawn one at a time only in case I didn't make that clear.