i havent been on the test server and dont no what the hell im talking about. i shall get on it today and try to run a plex in my ship and be astounded.

fixed

As in its easy? or as in i will get turned over like i said?

Im not installing the test server btw.

if they do no damage to me but its impossible for me to kill them, then i will be ecstatic. Other than that, its a terrible change.

Only one NPC at a time. The damage up through small plexes is anemic. 'You are hit for 17...' Medium will make trying to run it in an untanked Hound challenging if you're not moving. Large - untanked Hound is a no go.

After you kill one rat, another will appear randomly 90-180 seconds later in a novice/small. 90-300 seconds in a medium/ large. Since you have to be available every two minutes to kill something - cloaks will not be of as great benefit for farmers as people think. The tactic of clearing a plex of a rat and putting your farmer alt in there will also not fly. Lastly - killing your DPS by fiting stabs instead of damage mods will have the effect of halving your LP production - your plexes will almost take twice as long. They will also make you more vulnerable to being chased off and/or not finishing the plex in the first place. It's a strong defensive measure - as I mentioned above - you may not want to sit on a 30 minute timer - but you can troll the farmer by running it down even a little bit.

This is probably the best they can do to reduce farming while impacting PvP as little as possible. Some people will hate it. Some with think it much needed. Shrug.

People seem to overrate those changes a lot. Most farmers already stick with capping defensive outposts because at higher tiers there's less and less backwater enemy systems to be at, and for offensive ones people will simply keep their main parked to clear some npcs (as most already do). Afk farming is done with warp stabilizers, not cloaks.

A bunch of npc rats only hinders people who are actually fightning. I have not tested it, but wouldn't a destroyer with 3-4 stabs be able to clear those rats regardless?

System still looks pretty flawed to me. The only thing I find interesting is how people are encouraged to bring larger ships into larger outposts, but that's it.

noobs fit stabs. pros use totally unfit t1 frig hulls for total-afk Zen d-plexing, because why bother. Just die, get podded, and warp back in a new one. It's ridiculous.

Nah, smart people keep the game windowed or alt tabbed while watching netflix or something, and simply press the warp button when they hear their ship taking damage. CLoaks were mostly a bot tool (those that spam dscan and autocloak when something is nearby).

What the changes do is make offensive plexing a much more time/effort consuming affair. Therefore less desirable for an alt farmer they will constantly have to warp in their 'main' to clear the plex. The npc's RESPAWN!

D-plexing hasn't changed from what I can see and if you are at a high teir it probably will still be worth d-plexing with an alt afk, if you are into that kinda of douchyness (it is so a word!)

So it will take longer to offensive plex now but there also large plexes in every system now so the overall time to vuln a system should stay the same. However if you want to do it with any efficiency you will need to bring different sized ships for the respective sized plex to beat the tanks of the npc spawns.

Sounds like a win win to me.

But a large unrestricted plex will be of absoluttly no worth.
A restriceted BC plex would bring BCs on field in an instance.
As I lived in eha in cal mil we attacked oics next door and fought 3 to 4 times in a row in BCs....
So the game mechanic problems are quite clear.
Low sec should be about gate and plex combat.
So good logic dictates that there should be plexes for every ship size, from noob frig to BS.

Would be nice if they brought back the old large/major that was gated for BCs and down again, had a lot of fun brawls in them.

If the proposed changes are indeed what have been discussed here...this will be a good step in the right direction.

I have never had an issue with defensive plexing or mission farming. The rub has always been with noob alts offensive plexing and thereby affecting station docking (once flipped). The idea that a few-day old toon can have such an influence has always been the issue. Now, it looks like that won't be the case.

CCP, imho, put the cart in front of the horse when they made the station/occupancy changes before truly fixing plexing. Hopefully this is the answer we have been wanting/looking for.

The first 6 months after inferno changed the face of FW there were no farmer in FW (Apart from mission farmers) Then CCP handed plexing to the 1 day alts with the stupid single useless npc's

These changes are step back and forwards at the same time however they will pretty much mainly affect the farming toon and not the guys who actually want to FW \o/

The problem is not mission farming or plex farming - it is the impact free isk has on the whole game.

The balance of rats of different races would be an easy to fix problem.

The main problems are:

-Free isk destroys eve's economy and thus warfare (free titans). Poor game mechanics make the free titans kill game content (bridges in low sec). This system is pure inflation and subdues fw to the broken null sec game design.

-Farmers wage and decide the faction war. This is a massive blow to content, as null bears now controll fw low sec. Fw pilots do not decide fw war, in fact the pirates are more active in the fw zone than the militas.

Imagine fw farmers would control null bear sov.

Let us see what happens with the changes - I would be nice to log into eve again and find something worth playing.

And if - if - low sec gets more attractive and even more pilots decide to live there - that would be a big plus to eve.

Not a single isk is created or added to the economy from FW activites. Isk is actually removed from the game when using any LP store. Unless you count insurance, anyway.

Yup, it's even a double ISK sink if you consider transaction taxes on the sale of LP store items.

Effect of FW LPs is to take ISK from missioners/ratters/incursioners/wormholers* that enjoy faction gear, destroy some of it, and transfer the rest to the militiamen (proud freedom fighters and farmers alike).

It basically makes the rest of the playerbase work for us!


*Because blue books

This for a handy reference on ISK fawcets and sinks.

Above statements are true in a specific setting, but what is isk?

In fact all isk is either created from sone sort of pve - that is the foundation of all eve economy. All pve is nothing put a players game time - usually wastest on some form of grinding and boring activity. Maybe eve can grow in a way that pve would be based on players interaction.

Eve is - historically, the second generation of ultima online - we are wittnesses and actors alike in a historical game development process.

The other source of isk is plex.

So isk is a mixed currency of players game time and plex - so real money. Money itself also has no value on itself today and is only a trade tool, that is completly virtual today.

With some fw missions and conversion of lp to isk you can easily made insane amounts of isk - many players use their isk to plex their toons.

Missioins create insane amounts of lp - so lp is a currency of its own, the only differnce is that lp can only be traded to ccp and not other players.

There is no sink of currency in an economy - there is only transformation.

Above statements are true in a specific setting, but what is isk?

In fact all isk is either created from sone sort of pve - that is the foundation of all eve economy. All pve is nothing put a players game time - usually wastest on some form of grinding and boring activity. Maybe eve can grow in a way that pve would be based on players interaction.

Eve is - historically, the second generation of ultima online - we are wittnesses and actors alike in a historical game development process.

The other source of isk is plex.

So isk is a mixed currency of players game time and plex - so real money. Money itself also has no value on itself today and is only a trade tool, that is completly virtual today.

With some fw missions and conversion of lp to isk you can easily made insane amounts of isk - many players use their isk to plex their toons.

Missioins create insane amounts of lp - so lp is a currency of its own, the only differnce is that lp can only be traded to ccp and not other players.

There is no sink of currency in an economy - there is only transformation.

FW misions do not make any isk,

nope. wrong. nope.

learn to play the same game we are crosi.

FW missions only create LP and tags. No isk. Learn about the eve economy. Behind every isk you gather from selling items is a bear running incursions or killing rats somewhere.

They made the isk.

Sure, in normal terms you can say you 'make' isk. However, Re-rehelis started talking about the economy, at which point definitions of certain terms have to be tightened up a little. Sorry.

he blamed farmers for ruining the economy with this 'isk' they are flooding into it. When in reality the exact opposite is the case.

Its confusing, i dont expect you and your buddy re-rehelis to understand, that would involve taking a step back out of the paranoid and delusional bubble you have created for yourself.

FW missions only create LP and tags. No isk. Learn about the eve economy. Behind every isk you gather from selling items is a bear running incursions or killing rats somewhere.

o yeah so mission rewards are zero isk then eh? trying to change the bottom line to anything except the bottom line doesnt win you any points with people who actually make money. the only difference between incursions and fw missions is the incursion runners see their isk instantly.

so the farmers instead bought up all the faction mods and held them? or the pvpers farmed and flooded the market? what is the opposite case your just spouting bullshit from?

try to tell the rest of the militia that farmers didnt flood the market lol.

You are correct, there are minimal isk rewards for missions i had forgotten about.

However, the real difference between incursion isk and the isk you got from selling FW items is that one is an inflationary pressure and one is a deflationary pressure. As in, incursion isk is cunjored from thin air, your isk is delivered to you and was already in the economy.

Re-rehelis claimed the the isk flooding into the pockets of FW players is ruining the economy with free isk, and the game with free titans. In reality the inflationary pressure of FW is one of a few desperately needed pressures that struggle to keep an equilibrium in the eve economy.

This is expansively documented, i know its high end stuff for a delicatessen clerk but its not really that complicated. Also, im no expert on it, there are much better sources than the W&T forum for this stuff. So with that ill leave it there.

You're right, but also absolutely wrong.

FW LP stores are nowhere near enough to combat isk inflation. Rat bounties, incursions and insurance are are huge isk faucets. So huge that the impact of the FW LP stores can't even begin to combat that.

But my fellow FW players are bitching about LP inflation that is ruining the market for the items in their LP stores. What happened to 25mil slicers? The price has been driven down by semi-afk/bot plexers in stabbed/cloaked ships that don't share any of the risk associated with plexing/missions. That LP inflation has all but destroyed our niche of the market.

Hell, if anything the isk is still too good. A guy running three plexing alts (that take all of like 3 hours to train) can save up for a super cap pretty quick and can log those alts in any time he wants and watch a movie while doing it. Once he gets that super cap, his "pvp time" is spent sitting in a force field somewhere waiting for a cyno to be lit so he can jump with all his friends doing the exact same thing onto a lone condor.

Eventually the guy decides FW is too noobish (AKA "my titan doesn't fit in plexes") and he's off to the nulsec alliance of his choice, where he will sit in a forcefield in amamake and hotdrop with his new friends onto lone condors...while preserving his holy isk ratio on the killboards until he gets killed in an escalating battle. Then he'll log in his FW alts and grind up another.