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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3933
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm back!
Getting to finally show you guys these is very exciting! I hope you understand the delay. The drone changes outlined in this Dev Blog had a big enough impact on the balance for pirate cruisers and battleships that we really wanted to wait on posting these. Thankfully, that's happened and we can get on with it!
So, there's a lot of changes here but the precedents set in the frigate pass should be mirrored fairly well. Here's some high level explanation on each of the Cruisers:
Phantasm:
Role bonus to Afterburner speed
Major buffs to base speed and slot layout
Ashimmu:
Infinite Energy Vampire (remember these are getting a buff as well, check the thread here for details
Web range bonus instead of effectiveness
Adding a low slot and losing a high - the low slot should be more useful in most setups
Added drone bay/bandwidth
Gila:
Medium drone powerhouse (remember the Medium Drone buff in the above linked Dev Blog)
We expect a lot of feedback here, I'll do my best to answer questions as they come, but the basic thinking is that this is new and interesting, very powerful, and frees it from overlap with the Ishtar (which simply does sentries better)
Vigilant:
Keeping the web bonus
Fixing strangenesses in the attributes by lowering PG some, adding some base speed to catch it up with other cruisers and finally giving it decent lock range
Cynabal:
Went in expecting to nerf heavily and didn't
Extreme fitting freedom limited somewhat now
Mostly the same old awesome ship
And here's the details:
PHANTASM
Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed
Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)
Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)
Slot layout: 4H, 6M, 5L(+2); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG(-35), 380 CPU(-45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2700(+266) / 2175 / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1800(+105) / 495000 (+3750) / 3.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 228(+64) / .62(-.06) / 965000 / 8.25s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 59km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 120(-10)
========================================================================================
ASHIMMU
Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)
Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage
note: Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level
Slot layout: 5H(-1), 4M, 6L(+1); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1220 PWG(-200), 350 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2290(-38) / 2950(+325) / 2325
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1850(+20) / 530000(-7500) / 3.49
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 208(+33) / 3.6 / 1003000 / 5.01s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+30) / 40(+30)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10km) / 340 / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 19
Signature radius: 130
========================================================================================
GILA
Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)
Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus:
500% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)
Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3200(+12) / 2200(-125) / 2490
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .66 / 9600000 / 8.78s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 100(-300)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7
Sensor strength: 22
Signature radius: 145(-5)
========================================================================================
VIGILANT
Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness
Role Bonus:
75% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1050 PWG(-150), 360 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2175 / 2500(+175) / 2625
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1545 / 490000 (-1250) / 3.15
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 242(+36) / .48 / 9830000 / 6.54s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 49km(+14km) / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 130
========================================================================================
CYNABAL
Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 820 PWG(-280), 335 CPU(-15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2330 / 2300(-25) / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1415 / 490000(-1250) / 2.88
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 263(+6) / .45(-.0045) / 9047000(+200000) / 5.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range ...
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3933
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Posted - 2014.04.07 15:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hexatron Ormand wrote:So there are the cruisers! Waited for them quite some time. Next thing i am looking forward to is the posting about the battleships.
Going to give these a few days and hopefully post the BS near the end of the week.
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3934
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Posted - 2014.04.07 16:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Vigilant bonus was a typo, it's fixed now: MEDIUM hybrid.
The Gila bonus is not a typo, 500%.
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3937
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Posted - 2014.04.07 16:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:So under AB power the Phantasm will go approximately 1km/s without any nanos, links, boosters, implants, etc... I wonder how fast it'll go with a 100mn AB....
Max skills, no links/boosters/implants/fitting/etc = 2705m/s
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3946
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Posted - 2014.04.07 17:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.
I'll make sure we take another look though.
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3970
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Posted - 2014.04.08 12:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Morning fellows
I've been reading as fast as I can and I'm almost up to most current post but I'm about to be stuck in meetings for a few hours so I wanted to respond to what I'm seeing so far.
Everyone seems unhappy with the Cynabal - fair enough. The balance oriented folks here are going to have a sit down this afternoon to discuss options to add some more unique flavor to the line. Failing any large changes, I'll at least look at the powegrid and make sure Artillery is viable.
Vigilant powergrid seems to be at least a mild concern so I'll look at that again. I'm not sure there will be changes here because if I remember correctly it was trivial to do 1600 + mwd + at least Ions which is probably a bit generous. Will check it out though.
Phantasm is mix of excitement and concern about the tension between the bonuses (guns + speed and sig + shields) which is fair, but I think this is part of what makes it interesting and I'm not really worried about it not being strong enough. Part of how I justified the weird bonus set is by looking at how it performs as a simple MWD/shield skrimisher, which it does quite well.
Hopefully back with more in a few hours. Thanks for the response (except you Capqu)
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3983
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
No update on changes yet, but I wanted to respond to a few more things.
On the Vigilant fitting (and similar fitting related comments) - as someone mentioned above, fitting a ship is not meant to be a matter of fitting all the biggest things. There are certainly times when the fitting allocation is too restrictive and we don't want that either, but for ship-fitting gameplay to be good it must include personalization/strategy/tradeoffs. That's what we're trying to accomplish.
There's some sentiment (as there often seems to be) that these changes somehow pigeonhole ships into roles that we have explicitly defined rather than allowing for more open or generalized ships. I would say that while some roles have shifted (no more Sentry Drones for the Gila being the best example), Pirate Faction ships remain a set of very good generalists. We have an opportunity, because of their flavor and cost, to give them some very interesting capabilities that go a bit outside the box, which is great, but we haven't tried to restrict them to a specific environment at all. The Gila will still have plenty of PVE application and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find examples of lost capability for the rest of these ships resulting from the proposed changes.
Sorry for the typos that were in the OP, hopefully I've removed the last of them now but if you see more let me know.
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3985
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alright, you guys are getting major real time updates here, I might as well start live tweeting our meetings!
With regards to the Cynabal - we are not going to try and add some kind of web/scram immunity/resistance. While this kind of bonus would certainly be fun, it would force us to make severe changes to all three Angel ships to compensate for the increased power, which would surely feel terrible for all the people enjoying them now. This would be especially true for PVE players who couldn't make use of the new bonus but would be stuck with a much worse ship than they are used to.
The option we do feel good about is warp speed. It supports the hit and run playstyle that Angels are already best at without forcing us to make changes to the combat performance. So, we are looking at roughly a 50% increase in warp speed and acceleration for all three, putting the Cynabal at warp speed multiplier of 5, which is basically destroyer speed. I've also updated the OP with a new powergrid number.
We've also adjusted powergrid on the Ashimmu to make some more room for those PG heavy energy war mods.
We spent time playing with the Vigilant in a lot of different configurations and feel completely confident in the current fitting numbers.
Hope this makes you Angel fans more excited
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3993
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Serpentis web bonus is extremely strong. We went into this balance pass thinking it was probably too strong and that we may need to tune it down. In the first Pirate Faction thread (the Frigates) I asked specifically for feedback on this bonus and how players felt about it. We also brought it up with the CSM during the summit.
The vast majority of feedback from all angles pointed towards an agreement that in certain environments this bonus was extremely powerful but that it wasn't having a negative effect on the game overall and we should leave it alone. I'm not sure if anyone remembers by now but when I casually mentioned changing this bonus during a Reddit AMA there was an outcry to prevent us from doing that at all costs.
Internally we are a bit divided even though we all agree it's one of the game's most powerful bonuses. I want to try and leave it because unique points of power like this one, as long as they aren't oppressive, are more interesting than moving everything towards a middle ground.
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
3993
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Posted - 2014.04.08 16:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:I like the idea of suddenly a fleet of Cynabals landing on grid with only a few seconds of D-Scan time.
I can totally appreciate the concern with adding web resistance. It might be better to try that out with a new T3 (Loki propulsion) subsystem or a new hull, rather than one that's well established. Setting it at any degree that's worthwhile would be very powerful.
Maybe keep it in mind for a future Minmatar/Amarr (Ammatar?) Lasers/Armor based Rifter/Stabber/Typhoon set?
Yes, I think it's definitely an idea we can hang on to for the future 
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4000
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sorry for the 5 instead of 4.5 typo. It will be 50% increase for all of them so 4.5 for the Cynabal.
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4012
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Posted - 2014.04.09 13:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Battleships coming soon
I'm not sure exactly when we will be able to get this stuff on Singularity but hopefully it won't be too long.
@ccp_rise |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1134
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Posted - 2014.04.10 19:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
thread temporarily locked for some cleaning.
ISD Ezwal
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1137
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Posted - 2014.04.10 22:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have removed several rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
7. Use of profanity is prohibited.
The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.
22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
Thread unlocked.
ISD Ezwal
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4022
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Posted - 2014.04.11 11:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
There's a reason the cargo holds don't usually make it into the OP but it isn't a good one. I'll try to work on that in the future. I'm going to change the cargo for the cruisers to the following numbers:
Ashimmu: 430
Cynabal: 400
Gila: 440
Phantasm: 410
Vigilant: 450
Look for the battleship post at the start of next week.
@ccp_rise |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
4022
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Posted - 2014.04.11 13:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rabbit P wrote:CCP Rise wrote:
ASHIMMU
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 208(+33) / .58 / 11010000 / 5.01s
according to the formula, the align time of ashimmu should be 8.85s rise , seem you miss the post before, so i post it again, please check the align time 
You're right, sorry I missed it before. Will correct the OP.
@ccp_rise |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1147
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Posted - 2014.04.14 21:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
ISD Ezwal
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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