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Dear CCP : Nerf local chat?

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0August0	Posted - 2006.05.09 17:08:00 - [31] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter or big gigantic fleet camping gates or siting at ss fixed Not that big an advantage, especially for gate campers with the gate activation graphic and sound to warn them. . . . Regards, August Soldier of the Gooch
0August0	Posted - 2006.05.09 17:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Phelan Lore Originally by: Faith Black Maybe players should really only show up, if they say something, but the local count should stay ? That's what I'd suggest. No local count would be slighty too much. Especially with all of the abandoned ships that show up on scanner. I agree. Local count and if I may suggest, you appear in the local box of any ships that you are in sight of. . . . Regards, August Soldier of the Gooch
Da Death	Posted - 2006.05.09 17:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 09/05/2006 15:07:40 Please forgive me if this has been suggested/mentioned before Local chat, what purpose does the current system serve? A chat window, and a way to see whos there. This isn't a good thing. Sure its a good thing if you're trying to look for someone, or avoid someone. But thats basically it. The solar systems would seam so much vaster if you didn't appear in local until you typed something. It would make the game so much more interesting. Instead of having an alt in the next system who you paid attention to every now and then just to see if local had increased/decreased we would now be forced to actually watch gates and to actually use the scanner in a proper way. I read in one of the newest EVE chronicles that this pilot didn't want to talk in local to reveal his/hers presence. This makes sense, the current local system doesn't. Yes a change would probably increase the amounts of death by alot....but isn't that the universe CCP has envisioned? Or at least the vision they have presented to us. I would love to hear if CCP had any thoughts on the matter. Other than that, thank you for a brilliant game. just close your chat window and everything is done/fixed Absolution - Curse - T2 Laser Crystals and much more -> check Bio
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 17:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Da Death just close your chat window and everything is done/fixed DAMNIT! Bloodeye intelligence agency
Prestis	Posted - 2006.05.09 17:31:00 - [35] Edited by: Prestis on 09/05/2006 17:32:42 We can hope, but like instas and everything that hurts PvP, some people are very attached to local. Not to chat in of course, I only ever see smack in there, but as the best scanning and intel device in EVE. Local pretty much drove me out of 0.0. The number of people who log the second you enter the system is amazing. At least in higher population low-sec systems it takes a bit of work to find the bad guy.
Punktious	Posted - 2006.05.09 17:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 09/05/2006 15:07:40 Please forgive me if this has been suggested/mentioned before Local chat, what purpose does the current system serve? A chat window, and a way to see whos there. This isn't a good thing. Sure its a good thing if you're trying to look for someone, or avoid someone. But thats basically it. The solar systems would seam so much vaster if you didn't appear in local until you typed something. It would make the game so much more interesting. Instead of having an alt in the next system who you paid attention to every now and then just to see if local had increased/decreased we would now be forced to actually watch gates and to actually use the scanner in a proper way. I read in one of the newest EVE chronicles that this pilot didn't want to talk in local to reveal his/hers presence. This makes sense, the current local system doesn't. Yes a change would probably increase the amounts of death by alot....but isn't that the universe CCP has envisioned? Or at least the vision they have presented to us. I would love to hear if CCP had any thoughts on the matter. Other than that, thank you for a brilliant game. I think that your suggestion is fine and that a change in how local works should be looked at. But..! by only removing people from local unless they have typed something would be unbalanced imo. There would have to be implemented a similar mechanism for the map function: "Average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes" if they havent typed anything in local they should not appear on that. That way you will be able to hide and get jumped aswell. -Punk ---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it.
The Colonel	Posted - 2006.05.09 17:57:00 - [37] 0 space dwellers cling to local chat like a soggy comfort blanket; take it away and you have an even harder time displacing the isk junkies in empire. Local in empire is often busy enough for skilled pirates to slip in and out of local barely noticed by the less than manicly dedicated, and in any case scouts are used by any self respecting professional outlaw. 0 space systems are mostly empty, save for the odd alliance hub etc. Therefore someone pops in local you notice it almost immediately. So you can't have an Eve-wide local chat redesign. I do support a change though, mostly because it would open up a whole new branch of scout and scanning related modules and skills, which is how it should be. Forum
Kaeten	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:04:00 - [38] I have to say I agree to this, not for pirates sake or for scouts sake. But for the sake of it will make space seem alot bigger, atm I think eve is small
Gnawed Knackers	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:06:00 - [39] I see your attempting to remove solo/casual players from 0.0 too. The game is bad enough for casual players in 0.0 without making travel and everyday activities even harder. An efficent force can be in a system, and ontop of a target in 30 seconds if they know what they're doing. If you want to make YOUR game time more interesting, change the local settings to display ppl only when they speak (I assume it can be done because alliance does it automatically).
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:08:00 - [40] Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 09/05/2006 18:08:30 Originally by: Punktious I think that your suggestion is fine and that a change in how local works should be looked at. But..! by only removing people from local unless they have typed something would be unbalanced imo. There would have to be implemented a similar mechanism for the map function: "Average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes" if they havent typed anything in local they should not appear on that. That way you will be able to hide and get jumped aswell. -Punk Thank you Punktious. As always Phantom Squad brings reason to the table (Yes I am an alt) As mentioned local should appear empty unless someone type anything. I also agree with you on the map thing, do we need to see the number of pilots during the last 30 minutes? No. Why would we? Do we really need to see anything on the map apart from what system connects to another system? I think not. What we could use is a 'general index' of dangerous regions. Showing stats for regions and their average population count and ships destroyed. Leave the real info for the players to discover themselves I say. Bloodeye intelligence agency
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:12:00 - [41] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Don Carn'age EVE is a social game, remove the chat and reduce the amount of social interaction. How can you even claim such an insane thing considering how EVE is made up of mega corporations and alliances? Theres a nice nonsequitur. So lets say I'm in a corp of 250 in an alliance of 700, how much social interaction do you think there'll be in there? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:13:00 - [42] Originally by: Gnawed Knackers I see your attempting to remove solo/casual players from 0.0 too. How on earth did you come to this conclusion? Please elaborate since te rest of your writing doesnt. Quote: The game is bad enough for casual players in 0.0 without making travel and everyday activities even harder. Access to 0.0 is earned through team play. The 'casual gamer' that logs on 3 times a week for 3 hours per session hasnt earned his/hers place in 0.0. EVE is a game where competition makes champions, not game mechanics. Quote: An efficent force can be in a system, and ontop of a target in 30 seconds if they know what they're doing. And? Bloodeye intelligence agency
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Hllaxiu Theres a nice nonsequitur. So lets say I'm in a corp of 250 in an alliance of 700, how much social interaction do you think there'll be in there? So basically what you are saying is that you need local chat to be able to interact with your corp of 250 members and your alliance of 700? I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but you make no sense. Bloodeye intelligence agency
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:19:00 - [44] Originally by: dalman Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Sovy Kurosei Spamming the scanner every minute doesn't sound very appealing when hunting out in 0.0 space. Sorry. It would require the proper use of scouts. Whos role would be to....scout. I think you typed it wrong. What you meant was probably: It would require the lame* use of alts.* As opposed to how things are now? ~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Hllaxiu Theres a nice nonsequitur. So lets say I'm in a corp of 250 in an alliance of 700, how much social interaction do you think there'll be in there? So basically what you are saying is that you need local chat to be able to interact with your corp of 250 members and your alliance of 700? I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but you make no sense. No, but we need it to interact with our enemies. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Zaldiri	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:22:00 - [46] I fully support this, but having a POS in the system should give you the ability to see who is in the system (maybe with the addition of a "scanner array" structure). In addition maybe being able to see from the map who is in any system of which you have soverenty over would be a nice addition. Of course you shouldn't be able to see cloaked ships. ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:25:00 - [47] Originally by: Hllaxiu No, but we need it to interact with our enemies. We can interact plenty. By typing a single dot in local and reveal our presence. Or by firing our guns at them. Plenty of interaction there Bloodeye intelligence agency
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Zaldiri I fully support this, but having a POS in the system should give you the ability to see who is in the system (maybe with the addition of a "scanner array" structure). A brilliant idea. A POS would increase your scanning range, but should not automatically inform you about everyone thats inside the system. Remember space is biiiiiiig Bloodeye intelligence agency
Uael	Posted - 2006.05.09 18:52:00 - [49] Personally, I've always found local chat to be perfectly realistic. Its explained easily by saying the gates are manned structures that actually track the ID codes of everyone who enters or leaves a system. The ID codes are then broadcasted on the local channels as a service. The closest thing we have to a stargate in RL is the Panama Canal and they certainly keep track of who is going through. Of course this doesn't really work for capital ship jumps, but I'm sure someone can put their imaginations to work to figure out an explanation. /Salute Of course this doesn't really work for capital ship jumps, but I'm sure someone can put their imaginations to work to figure out an explaination.
Kahor	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:02:00 - [50] Edited by: Kahor on 09/05/2006 19:02:36 Make cloacked ships NOT show on local. It all make sense, is not so unbalanced and would add SOOOOOO much to the game. Yet it would need for some tweaking, like make cov ops still show on scanner for 1 minute after being cloacked. Or possibly make the 'dissapear from local' thing only work on T2 cloacking device or with recon ships or something along the lines of a specialized ship for scouting only. Discuss ! An eye for an eye make a whole world blind. [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:03:00 - [51] Originally by: Uael Personally, I've always found local chat to be perfectly realistic. Its explained easily by saying the gates are manned structures that actually track the ID codes of everyone who enters or leaves a system. The ID codes are then broadcasted on the local channels as a service. Assumptions. Quote: The closest thing we have to a stargate in RL is the Panama Canal and they certainly keep track of who is going through. Please. RL is irrelevant here, espacially the Panama canal considering CCP is based in Iceland, Europe. Bloodeye intelligence agency
Chibim Skeko	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:08:00 - [52] Originally by: Uael Edited by: Uael on 09/05/2006 19:07:00 Personally, I've always found local chat to be perfectly realistic. Its explained easily by saying the gates are manned structures that actually track the ID codes of everyone who enters or leaves a system. The ID codes are then broadcasted on the local channels as a service. It could work like that though I bet a real pirate would probably find a way around that then. I doubt they'd want anybody to know who they really were. They'd find a way to make it just not show up... or make it seem like they are someone other than they really are.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Kahor Edited by: Kahor on 09/05/2006 19:02:36 Make cloacked ships NOT show on local. Fair enough. Meaning they would disappear as soon as they cloak after enter a system. However, this in turn would mean that people would be able to see when a covert ops enters/exits a system. 'he just showed up on scanner and disappeared that means he left' etc (I'm sure you get the idea) The reason I wrote this thread is because I think EVE would benefit from some more 'mystique'. Just like you experience in submarine sims such as Silent Hunter III. People who knows this game knows what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the balance between 'lurkers' and straight out combat ships. Today, there is a very little difference. Bloodeye intelligence agency
Nev Clavain	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:11:00 - [54] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 09/05/2006 19:16:01 Ok this idea seems to have alot of support, mor ethan I would expect. HOwever i still fundamentally disagre with the proposed changes to local chat. Let me start by justifying the system in the context of the EVE universe. knowing exactly who is in local the minute they arrive is wholly justified because of the Stargate system. Stargates log who enters and who leaves a system. As simple as that. This information is freely available to all, and so the total population of a system is always known by everyone. It makes perfect sense. Perhaps ships that arrive by cyno fields could justifyably be omitted from this process, but nothing that enters a system via a stargate. Now let me justify local chat in the context of game mechanics, rather than by how it fits into the EVE universe. As someone has already pointed out EVE is a social game. I come from a small corp which lives in a highly volatile region of npc soveriegnty 0.0. IN the area we live in, there are many other similar corps, with whom we have built up friendly relations. The market is starting to develope nicely, and it seems more people come to join us in this area all the time. Put simply, local chat allows smaller, less hardcore corps to realise over time they have mutual interests and common ground, which can add a real flavour to a particular system or constellation. I highly doubt any of this could be achieved if local was nerfed. Simply by seeing people in system alot, without ever talking to them, you identify these people as locals, and that is the beginnning of good relations in these parts. The longer you live in the same space without interfering with one another, the better chance of forming good relations. Nerf local and small corps will exist side by side in these regions without even realising one another's presence. When a big enemy ofr pirate comes, they wont stand together, because they dont even know who is local to a system and who is a marauder. Nerfing local effectively places a penalty on communication in your own system. Start to chat, and boom you are at a disadvantage - so people will avoid talking. Not a good thing imo. Communication is key to co-operation, and now this nerf idea wants to make communication a tactical disadvantage. Mutual trust between non-allied corps goes out the window, and you start to lose a beautiful part of the spectrum of eve. Corps should be able to live and work together without forming a huge alliance. Loose coalitions make the political scene far more entertaining, and these would simply not exist if local was nerfed as you suggest. Furthermore there is a logical problem with the idea of people appearing only when they speak in local. The problem is when do they dissapear and how do you justify it? Obvious answer is they dissapear when they leave the system or log off. However if telling you when a player enters is unrealistic/wrong etc, then by the same measure telling everyone when a player leaves is just as bad. Knowing when someone leaves a system is every bit as much valuable info as knowing when someone enters. It is the same thing really, it indicates movement. Let me finish by saying that there is much more work involved in evading killers or hunting people than simply watching local. It is already difficult to track down a target and kill it, if he is genuinely fleeing you and knows most of the useful tricks e.g instas, multiple safespots, cloaks etc. Remove local and 1 jump and a good safespot is all you need for total safety from a persuing fleet - not exactly conducive to fun pvp at all. I'll leave it at that and see the response although there is much more I feel I could say to defend the current local chat system.
Galk	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:13:00 - [55] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Assumptions. Facts then, we had a poll about 2 years ago on this subject when ccp were thinking about it. It was split 50/50, and that was 2 years ago. My opinion back then was ok for 0.0, no no for empire. Local is social for the majority, the games about more then just blam blam.... Well i assume it is anyway ______ Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free. We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
Uael	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:15:00 - [56] Originally by: Imperial Coercion [quote The closest thing we have to a stargate in RL is the Panama Canal and they certainly keep track of who is going through. Please. RL is irrelevant here, espacially the Panama canal considering CCP is based in Iceland, Europe. Talk about irrelevant... /Salute
Kahor	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:17:00 - [57] Edited by: Kahor on 09/05/2006 19:24:45 Originally by: Nev Clavain Edited by: Nev Clavain on 09/05/2006 19:16:01 Ok this idea seems to have alot of support, mor ethan I would expect. HOwever i still fundamentally disagre with the proposed changes to local chat. Lots of things This is why only cloacked ships shouldn't appear on local, and with the requirment I have proposed. What about it ? Quote: Fair enough. Meaning they would disappear as soon as they cloak after enter a system. However, this in turn would mean that people would be able to see when a covert ops enters/exits a system. 'he just showed up on scanner and disappeared that means he left' etc (I'm sure you get the idea) The reason I wrote this thread is because I think EVE would benefit from some more 'mystique'. Just like you experience in submarine sims such as Silent Hunter III. People who knows this game knows what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the balance between 'lurkers' and straight out combat ships. Today, there is a very little difference. Well that bring a certain balance, cuz you can hardly notice the number in local increase of 1 and decrease of 1 within a second. And then competent players will check scanner. And competent scouts will try to avoid the scan (by jumping to a place out of scanning range, wich mean he has scouted the place beforehand). It's alright, antipirates and 'guards' will look of for those, and look in the systems around what it is scouting for. It actualy require some work from player that want to be safe. And won't hurt them 'socialy' shall I say. Also a certain type of probe could be created to detect cloacked ships, or why something like a ship specialised in uncloacking ships withing a radius of say...60km ? With specific mods and ships. An eye for an eye make a whole world blind. [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Galk Originally by: Don Carn'age EVE is a social game, remove the chat and reduce the amount of social interaction. Bingo. But this ofc is overlooked by people.... that take allll tooo seriously...... Actually that is what Constellation chat could be for. Make it so that it only shows when you speak and it would be safe to use as a chatroom for both groups. It would also be even more useful since it would not be confined to one solar sytem. Chatting and socialization = Constellation Chat Hunting, scanning, etc = local I really like the idea of a ship that scans you into local. Fascinating. Nyxus Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Nev Clavain knowing exactly who is in local the minute they arrive is wholly justified because of the Stargate system. Stargates log who enters and who leaves a system. Do they now? And if they do, who says players are entitled to that information? Would a person with high standings towards Amarr be given this information form a Minmatar stargate? Quote: This information is freely available to all, and so the total population of a system is always known by everyone. It makes perfect sense. No it doesn't. That a pilot can tell whos in the area light years away doesn't make sense. Quote: I come from a small corp which lives in a highly volatile region of npc soveriegnty 0.0. IN the area we live in, there are many other similar corps, with whom we have built up friendly relations. The market is starting to develope nicely, and it seems more people come to join us in this area all the time. So your argument is that because you have found a small safe pocket in 0.0 the game shouldt be ready for changes? Ever though of the exploration prospect of the game? Imagine getting to know your neighbors because you actually met them in space rather than just talking to them in local. Quote: I highly doubt any of this could be achieved if local was nerfed. Nothing is impossible in the wonderful universe that is EVE. Quote: Simply by seeing people in system alot, without ever talking to them, you identify these people as locals, and that is the beginning of good relations in these parts. The longer you live in the same space without interfering with one another, the better chance of forming good relations. Yes. But you seam to base your opinions on 'planetary' laws. Not laws that apply in space. Space is infinitely large. Bloodeye intelligence agency
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.05.09 19:34:00 - [60] Quote: Nerf local and small corps will exist side by side in these regions without even realizing one another's presence. When a big enemy ofr pirate comes, they wont stand together, because they don't even know who is local to a system and who is a marauder. Non sense. Are you honestly suggesting that the people in EVE are unable of exploring the solar system they decide to settle down in? Quote: Nerfing local effectively places a penalty on communication in your own system. Start to chat, and boom you are at a disadvantage - so people will avoid talking. Thats the whole idea. It works both ways. Quote: Not a good thing imo. Neither are guns and ammo. Quote: Communication is key to co-operation, and now this nerf idea wants to make communication a tactical disadvantage. No. I want to make it a tactical advantage. Quote: Mutual trust between non-allied corps goes out the window, and you start to lose a beautiful part of the spectrum of eve. Corps should be able to live and work together without forming a huge alliance. Loose coalitions make the political scene far more entertaining, and these would simply not exist if local was nerfed as you suggest. How? I don't see the logic behind what you just wrote. In fact I don't see any logic. Quote: Furthermore there is a logical problem with the idea of people appearing only when they speak in local. The problem is when do they disappear and how do you justify it? After talking/typing the only way they disappear is by leaving the system. Quote: Let me finish by saying that there is much more work involved in evading killers or hunting people than simply watching local. It is already difficult to track down a target and kill it, if he is genuinely fleeing you and knows most of the useful tricks e.g instas, multiple safespots, cloaks etc. Warp core stabs and nanofibers are hard to catch, but thats not what this thread is about. Bloodeye intelligence agency

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