Now if you change the requirement to Strategic Index 5 and Industry Index to 5 you are going to see a lot less Supers and Titans being built.

And how does this belong in general disccusion?

From what I'm reading here, you want to raise the requirements needed to build supers and titans, so that the people who already have lots of them will get an advantage. Not to mention that most large nullsec alliances would have no problem getting those 2 to 5.
Yeah..I don't see that happening, simply because the idea itself is bad.

And not only that... you think that making it more costly equals making it more difficult!

ISK never has been a balancing factor, ever!

And you are completely forgetting that all the bigger entities are perfectly capable to influence mineral prices across all systems. They can make them go up or dow at will, simply because they have the manpower, influence and money to do so!

So even if it was superuberexpensive to build them and would even be more expensive than what even the goons can afford, all they'd need to do is influence the market enough to make mineral prices drop and then buy them up from the market as usual!

You think they can't do that? Hahahahahahaha okay!

you mean make it relatively harder for everyone but the biggest oldest established groups to build supers?

implementing this'd basically confirm dinsdale's accusation of nullsec cartels running ccp?

So the solution for me is not to nerf them yet again but make them harder to build

Which is effectively a nerf.

Yes, but it will not affect their combat effectiveness.
The alternative would be to nerf the nukes of New Eden to the level of firecrackers. Nobody wants that.

It will not change their combat effectiveness, but do you think that the sov-nullsec groups will support a change that makes supercapitals more difficult to build? To them, it's a nerf whether it effects the combat usage, or the difficulty of obtaining one.

Requiring more upgrades will not change much. There will still be supercapital construction at almost the same rate. It will just cost them a tiny bit more. With moon goo and renting income, they can afford it.

The only thing I can see this proposed change doing is making it MORE difficult for groups outside of sov nullsec to obtain supers. The sov-nullsec groups will still build and use them, but prices will increase, making it more difficult for npc null or lowsec groups to obtain them.

Can you explain how a delay makes anything more difficult?

Because that's what you are asking for. A delay. They need to get to V first.

What's the increased difficulty here exactly?

Raising the build time or cost won't help at all. It reinforces established groups who have stashes of these ships on holding characters in anyway.

The only real way to manage them is to make them highly dependent on other ship classes. You don't have battle ship fleets without logistics, interdictors or webbing ships but at the moment you can have a supercap fleet with little need for other ship types because they can do everything in one hull type.

Can you explain how a delay makes anything more difficult?

Because that's what you are asking for. A delay. They need to get to V first.

What's the increased difficulty here exactly?

My guess would be he is referring to time. Time to build the titans time to harvest the materials. You are correct when you say increasing the cost will do nothing because Bluesec has deep pockets.

Time is the only thing everyone has in common regardless of who you are and where you play. Time is constant in any equation.

BTW what happened to your other forum posting toon? Just opted for a gender change or did you earn a perma ban?

Actually its the opposite.

Doing this actually gives the smaller guys a chance to hurt the big guys for once.

First the time increase.

At the moment all you need to do is acquire some backwater system in null, drop a ihub, install the required upgrade and of you go.

You can do this within 24 hours of capturing a system.

With what I have proposed, it would take a minimum of 100 days before you could even anchor your CSAA.

With needing both index's at 5 it becomes much more easier to find which systems are capable of building Supers + Titans.

That means CSAA hunting becomes a whole easier making them much more valuable to attack.

On top of this you need to get miners into null and then protect them in order to get the Indy Index to 5 which is not as easy as it sounds.

Add this all together and it will become a hell of a lot harder to pump out Supers and Titans in the number in which they are being produced today and you do not have to change their combat abilities which is the worst thing you can do to them

You need to get miners into null to raise it to V?

Okay, even although I don't understand how this works... nobody needs to get miners to null.
The people already are there. They can start mining in hundreds on the first day.
There aren't even enough roids to mine for all these people.

Interesting. Not sure if I should waste my time looking up these mechanics...

Btw, do you actually live in nullsec?

i think they should just bring out T3 stealth bombers that can fit citadel torpedoes, should solve the super problem, probably sort out a lot of capital ships in the process too.

Can you explain how a delay makes anything more difficult?

Because that's what you are asking for. A delay. They need to get to V first.

What's the increased difficulty here exactly?

I would have thought the easiest way was just to blow more of them up.

yes ? no ?

Soon CCP is going to have tackle the thorny issue of rebalancing Supers and Titans.

Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

For me the issue is not that they are too powerful, but they are too easy to build.

This is the reason why there are so many Supers and Titans in game now and why you can replace so many in just a few days.

So the solution for me is not to nerf them yet again but make them harder to build and increasing the minerals content will not work to stop this but a simple change will.

At the moment all you need to anchor a CSAA is the Strategic Index at 1 and the ihub upgrade Supercapital Construction Facilities.

Now if you change the requirement to Strategic Index 5 and Industry Index to 5 you are going to see a lot less Supers and Titans being built.

Not only will this increase the cost of buying a Super + Titan due to far less being built which will increase demand but it will also force Null Sec entities into enticing miners into null to order to get their Industry Index to 5 as well as make sure the system is not flipped in order not to lose the Strategic Index.

For me its a very simple change, something which CCP could do in just a few minutes and it would put a big dent in the ability to produce so many Supers and Titans as well as helping get more Industry people out into null.

Industry index to 5 would be like a cyno beacon saying come here. :)

Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

You do understand that those players leaving would be beneficial to the game, right?

Such a poor troll, I will give you 2/10

Soon CCP is going to have tackle the thorny issue of rebalancing Supers and Titans.

Supers and Titans have received nothing but nerfs since there inception. I know many players who are on the verge quitting Eve and another nerf to Supers and Titans will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

For me the issue is not that they are too powerful, but they are too easy to build.

This is the reason why there are so many Supers and Titans in game now and why you can replace so many in just a few days.

So the solution for me is not to nerf them yet again but make them harder to build and increasing the minerals content will not work to stop this but a simple change will.

At the moment all you need to anchor a CSAA is the Strategic Index at 1 and the ihub upgrade Supercapital Construction Facilities.

Now if you change the requirement to Strategic Index 5 and Industry Index to 5 you are going to see a lot less Supers and Titans being built.

Not only will this increase the cost of buying a Super + Titan due to far less being built which will increase demand but it will also force Null Sec entities into enticing miners into null to order to get their Industry Index to 5 as well as make sure the system is not flipped in order not to lose the Strategic Index.

For me its a very simple change, something which CCP could do in just a few minutes and it would put a big dent in the ability to produce so many Supers and Titans as well as helping get more Industry people out into null.

Not a troll. Self-identified ~supercap pilots~ are by far the worst population of players in the game.

I don't have forum toons. I'm only me... and I'm kind of regretting having a female char.

I sold Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD and was busy with my grandma being in hospital.

You can ask google for verification, which will point at the charbazarr.

Anyhow... Infinity Ziona... hasn't changed one bit, I see. Obviously knows the game even better than CCP.

I really like this idea (tying it to Sov levels).

It's really good.

Unfortunately, there are already tons of caps in the game, and this idea while awesome is probably 3 years too late. Many of the major cap powers in the game already have caches built of carriers and dreads, I wouldn't be surprised if there was someone with a super cache as well.

OP is 100% right on the money here.

The problem isn't the power of the ships themselves, the problem is their proliferation.

I completely agree the solution should be centered around the quantity of ships on the field as opposed to nerfing the ships themselves and I have a feeling the misguided nerfing of the ships has only added to the problem of proliferation as now more of those ships are needed.

Stop solving the wrong problem. Make these ships as glorious as they should be, but just as rare as they need to be.

Hi, my alliance has one of the largest super fleets in the game and we're blue to another alliance that has even more. I think it would be swell if supers were harder to acquire for everyone else.

Also, once that's done it would be grand if our supers were buffed to reflect the increased cost we didn't have to pay.

"Isk is not a balancing factor" is the stupidest statement one can make regarding EvE. It's the ultimate balancing factor in EvE. Jubus ...

FTFY.

Lol...

As I have said, I do not own a Super.

Also pretty sure most people in alliance such as mine would hate this idea as it not only would push up the cost but also make it a lot harder to get Supers for those who do not have them and for those who lose them.

You need not take out a main battle tank if you can starve the crew to death.

If ALL resources were made FINITE - no more respawning roids, no more moons that endlessly churn out goo - that would be the end of production, save for salvage - and salvage would become just as important as mining.

Let it be that a system mined to death will run out permanent rocks and ice belts, and let a moon mined for so long run out.


There may still be supercap battles - and then there will be subcap battles for the salvage.

And there WILL Be battles, because the number one driver of all wars is limited resources. This "PVP game" with it's respawning neverending resources - it does not fit.

The best way to balance supers is to remove them from the game.