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Rina Niminen
Old Smugglers
0
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Posted - 2014.04.10 05:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi. Question about high class wh Revelation is competitive as compared with Moros? what minus and plus? restrictions? |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1143
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pros: Ammo not required. Best capacitor life. Best armour tank. You're not flying Moros_8893748562345b
Cons: Worst DPS of gun dreads at meaningful ranges (basically anything less than 50kms). Worst Tracking of gun dreads. Shield tanking is better for PvP.
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Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
156
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
It is 3rd worst dread for cap esc. The latest tracking nerfs have tipped it over the edge into near uselessness compared to Nag and Moros. Having all V skills help make it barely passable. |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1143
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:It is 3rd worst dread for cap esc. The latest tracking nerfs have tipped it over the edge into near uselessness compared to Nag and Moros. Having all V skills help make it barely passable.
Having done cap escalations in a Rev (all Vs) it is the best choice of dread to be first dread when you're escalating all 4 waves pretty much straight away. Unlike the Moros and Naglfar, it actually has some capacitor and can happily tank all 4 waves of sleepers until they swap off, usually without having to stop shooting. Also, having 8 lows helps massively for fitting resists.
You wont get as much damage, but by god can you tank and resist neut pressure. I didn't ever have any issues hitting sleeper battleships. Tracking nerf is irrelevant. |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
145
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Posted - 2014.04.10 10:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I use all 3 dreads regurarly and I am max skilled for the Rev and Moros and use slave implants. We trigger all escalations at immediatly.
My experience in this context: The Moros is way superior in DPS. When the Moros is primary for to long (wich happens fairly often because of your high DPS compared to other ships) especially early on in the site you `can` get in trouble with cap or armor, meaning you may have to drop siege and get reps and cap every now and then. Ofcourse, if you drop siege DPS drops. The Revelation does less DPS but is more resiliant, i've never ever ever had to drop siege in a Rev yet.
I have not noticed any difference in tracking since the nerf. If you are not hitting, make sure your webbers are doing their jobs. |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3226
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Posted - 2014.04.10 11:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rev is highly underrated tbh. it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap. Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
18
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Posted - 2014.04.10 12:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Rev is highly underrated tbh. it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap. Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap.
In case of suddenly pvp a nag would perform better than a rev, right ? ;) For PvE i'd bet you say Rev is better for pve because of infinite ammo ? Damage projection of Nag is better though
(Don't underrate the pheonix too, it for sure will receive buffs during caprebalance and hopefully becomes more viable as it is right now) |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3229
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Posted - 2014.04.10 12:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Rev is highly underrated tbh. it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap. Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap. In case of suddenly pvp a nag would perform better than a rev, right ? ;) For PvE i'd bet you say Rev is better for pve because of infinite ammo ? Damage projection of Nag is better though (Don't underrate the pheonix too, it for sure will receive buffs during caprebalance and hopefully becomes more viable as it is right now) if there's surprise PVP against your PVE fleet it's irrelevant. damage projection is NOT better on a nag. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
111120
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Moros Dread Nag Dread Rev Half a Dread Phoenix not a Dread xD
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RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
18
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Rev is highly underrated tbh. it's better for PVE than the nag IMO and it's much easier since it has by far the best cap. Moros is still better DPS wise but not really by much if using T1 ammo and it has worse tank and a lot worse cap. In case of suddenly pvp a nag would perform better than a rev, right ? ;) For PvE i'd bet you say Rev is better for pve because of infinite ammo ? Damage projection of Nag is better though (Don't underrate the pheonix too, it for sure will receive buffs during caprebalance and hopefully becomes more viable as it is right now) if there's surprise PVP against your PVE fleet it's irrelevant. damage projection is NOT better on a nag.
As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there
*EDIT* @ Alice:
You call a dread which can 1 shot any BS out there not a dread ? ;) Pheonix actually IS a danger to BS with the abiltiy of 1 shot them though (even heavy tanked bhaals get volled into low structure), it's more aquestion of supportfleet, fleet setup etc, keep in mind for example in pulsar your sig isn't that small .... ;) However i for myself prefer Turretdps due to instantdamage |
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Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
172
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there
I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.
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bubble trout
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
211
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there
I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.
And by a wide margin. |
RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
18
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aducat Ragnarson wrote:RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there
I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said.
Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though |
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
172
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though
Ah I see now. Damage projection actually means the range at which the damage can still be applied.
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Le'Mon Tichim
End-of-Line Sky Syndicate
151
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Moros Dread Nag Dread Rev Half a Dread Phoenix not a Dread xD
I recall seeing a stream of a player blapping things off the undock in null with a Phoenix. Hurricane, Moa, Drake...
I simply think we've been using the Phoenix wrong. Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful. http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/ |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
101
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Aducat Ragnarson wrote:RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there
I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said. Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though
That would be damage application not damage projection.
Application usually relates to tracking/signature.
Projection is range related.
Although you are correct that a Naglfar tracks better than a Rev. Although I am still glad I trained Amarr Dread 5 for that extra cap and 11k DPS -Bl+¦d |
RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
18
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Posted - 2014.04.10 13:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:RcTamiya Leontis wrote:Aducat Ragnarson wrote:RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
As i said there " Damage projection of Nag is better" that means rev is worse, sorry if i created some misunderstanding there
I think you misunderstood, the naglfar has worse damage projection than the revelation, just as Jack Miton said. Well i am rarely in dreads, expected a Nag with depleted Uranium track better than a rev though That would be damage application not damage projection. Application usually relates to tracking/signature. Projection is range related. Although you are correct that a Naglfar tracks better than a Rev. Although I am still glad I trained Amarr Dread 5 for that extra cap and 11k DPS
Haha you just saved my day :D ye stuff like that may happen when beeing at work in eve forums not speaking your native language in a forum of your choice
Thanks for clarification ^^"
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Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
158
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Posted - 2014.04.13 08:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rev has better projection, up to a certain point.
In this case we were talking about cap escalations. That means depending on how you run the sites, sleeper BS are normally at around 36-40km from the dreads. In other cases they are 0km-36km. 36km being their normal orbiting range.
As far as I can see the Nag and Moros far outstrip the Rev for applied DPS at those ranges with superior raw DPS, Tracking and flexibility.
That said having an all V Rev as 2nd dread is more than acceptable and of course if you have the face roll 10 dreads into a site then it really doesn't matter what dread you fly, except maybe phoenixes.
The difference between an all V Moros and all V Rev from personal experience is significant and while I have not had the pleasure of seeing an all V Nag in action, on paper it looks like it will perform similarly to a Moros with better projection. |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1149
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 10:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
According to my EFTWarrioring with 2 paints and 2 webs against a Battleship, a Phoenix will do much more damage below 20kms, then the Moros takes over and does the most damage until about 33kms, where the Naglfar takes over. Then the Revelation outdamages everything past 40kms.
Anize Oramara wrote:Rev has better projection, up to a certain point.
No, the Revelation has better projection after a certain point. That point being 40kms, and it is a VERY large advantage out past 60kms, effectively doubling the DPS of the next closest Dreadnought (the Naglfar).
Anize Oramara wrote:In this case we were talking about cap escalations. That means depending on how you run the sites, sleeper BS are normally at around 36-40km from the dreads. In other cases they are 0km-36km. 36km being their normal orbiting range.
As far as I can see the Nag and Moros far outstrip the Rev for applied DPS at those ranges with superior raw DPS, Tracking and flexibility.
Interestingly, the cross-over point where all the dreads do about the same damage is 38kms. This changes when you add tracking into the equation, with the Phoenix being best until 25kms, where the moros takes over and doens't stop being better until about 60kms... but EFT is doing something weird and is telling me that the Revelation ahs better tracking than a Naglfar, so I'm not sure if I should trust this bit...
Anize Oramara wrote:That said having an all V Rev as 2nd dread is more than acceptable and of course if you have the face roll 10 dreads into a site then it really doesn't matter what dread you fly, except maybe phoenixes.
The difference between an all V Moros and all V Rev from personal experience is significant and while I have not had the pleasure of seeing an all V Nag in action, on paper it looks like it will perform similarly to a Moros with better projection.
If you have a choice, you should use the Revelation as first dread (or a Phoenix if in a Pulsar, yeah I said it) and then Moroses for all other dreads. The exception of course is if you're only doing one wave of sleepers at a time, in which case you just use Moroses and call it done.
Having said that though, all the dreads can blap sleepers pretty well (if you can believe EFT) and it shouldn't really matter which one you use, they'll still convert sleepers into wrecks. |
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
103
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Posted - 2014.04.13 11:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Revelation is the worst of the shield tankers.
Although in a wolf-rayet it can get a pretty nice tank when pimp is applied. One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |
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Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
161
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Posted - 2014.04.13 13:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Paikis wrote:According to my EFTWarrioring with 2 paints and 2 webs against a Battleship, a Phoenix will do much more damage below 20kms, then the Moros takes over and does the most damage until about 33kms, where the Naglfar takes over. Then the Revelation outdamages everything past 40kms.
No, the Revelation has better projection after a certain point. That point being 40kms, and it is a VERY large advantage out past 60kms, effectively doubling the DPS of the next closest Dreadnought (the Naglfar).
Yes sorry thats what I mean. 'up to a certain point' I meant as a figure of speech, not literally from 0-40km :)
Quote:Interestingly, the cross-over point where all the dreads do about the same damage is 38kms. This changes when you add tracking into the equation, with the Phoenix being best until 25kms, where the moros takes over and doens't stop being better until about 60kms... but EFT is doing something weird and is telling me that the Revelation ahs better tracking than a Naglfar, so I'm not sure if I should trust this bit... It's about the versatility part, the nag has a ton of mids, so fill it with tracking comps. This means you can switch from range to tracking or mix em up so you cna have more tracking than any dread or have good range. That's the THING about ACs, be it Vargur or Nag is you have to make those tracking comps work for you.
Quote: If you have a choice, you should use the Revelation as first dread (or a Phoenix if in a Pulsar, yeah I said it) and then Moroses for all other dreads. The exception of course is if you're only doing one wave of sleepers at a time, in which case you just use Moroses and call it done.
Having said that though, all the dreads can blap sleepers pretty well (if you can believe EFT) and it shouldn't really matter which one you use, they'll still convert sleepers into wrecks.
Well with less people you have to do 2 then 1 then 1 wave so it does take a bit longer but you get much larger share and the sites you do have go a lot farther. Moros is great for that and then whatever else we have available be it Moros/Rev/Nag
If you can believe it Nags make Black holes viable (not as good as normal but viable). |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
289
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Posted - 2014.04.13 21:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
>talking about which dread is the best
There is only one metric that matters, and that is DPS. So the moros is the best. |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3235
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 22:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:>talking about which dread is the best There is only one metric that matters, and that is DPS. So the moros is the best. right. so if the moros had 2km range it would still be best? Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
290
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
It doesn't though.
That's like saying "If the moros didn't exist would it still be the best?"
Of course not, I'm talking within the scope of how things currently are, and within that scope, DPS is the only metric that matters, and the moros is the best. |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
101
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Posted - 2014.04.14 00:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
I better fit 8 Heatsinks to my Rev then... and damage rigs...
DPS is definitely not the only thing that matters.. just look at all the Naglfars flying around.. thay don't have Moros DPS yet a hell of alot of people fly them for different reasons over the Moros -Bl+¦d |
Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3236
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:It doesn't though.
That's like saying "If the moros didn't exist would it still be the best?"
Of course not, I'm talking within the scope of how things currently are, and within that scope, DPS is the only metric that matters, and the moros is the best. so basically what you're saying is that all of the moros stats are good aand it has the most DPS, hence it is the best dread. well, youre not wrong, it IS the best dread but it's NOT purely for DPS reasons. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
290
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Posted - 2014.04.14 01:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sure, if they decide to change fundamental aspects of dreads, then dps may not be the deciding factor. For now though, it is. |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1150
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:It doesn't though.
That's like saying "If the moros didn't exist would it still be the best?"
Of course not, I'm talking within the scope of how things currently are, and within that scope, DPS is the only metric that matters, and the moros is the best. so basically what you're saying is that all of the moros stats are good aand it has the most DPS, hence it is the best dread. well, youre not wrong, it IS the best dread but it's NOT purely for DPS reasons.
But the Moros doesn't have good stats all round. It is the worst dread when it comes to tanking (both armour and shields, though the Revelation has a worse shield tank... but if you're shield tanking a Revelation you need to be training for another dread ASAP) and cap life. It is also the least agile, taking 10% longer to get into warp and has the second worst sensors (the Phoenix has the worst, but also has large numbers of mids to fit SeBos).
The only thing the Moros is the best at is killing things from 20-40kms. Granted this is usually what you use a Dreadnought for, but you also have to realise that a dead dreadnought doesn't do any damage, and neither does a neuted dreadnought.
Best damage (in a limited range profile), bad sensors, worst allign time, easiest to shut down (by either neuting OR just killing it). This is the Moros. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
290
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
What you say is all true to an extent. Except that the moros is still the best dread despite that because DPS is much more of a deciding factor and the rest is pretty much irrelevant |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1150
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:What you say is all true to an extent. Except that the moros is still the best dread despite that because DPS is much more of a deciding factor and the rest is pretty much irrelevant
Little advantages add up. Both the Naglfar and the Revelation will lock things a full gun cycle faster than the Moros. So by the time the Moros is firing its first salvo, the Rev and Nag are firing their second. It's only really a big deal on the first target, but again, small advantages add up.
A single Bhaalgorn will cap a (shield) Moros out in 88 seconds, but will take a full minute longer to cap out a Revelation. That's an extra 25 shots with the Revelation. The Naglfar will keep firing no matter what anyway. How good is a Moros that can't fire?
Implants also favour the Revelation, 5% more of a larger number is a bigger bonus. Slaves work on capitals, Crystals don't. |
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