My time is simply worth more than what EVE offers in exchange.

There is no discrepancy in the words you quoted, nor have you correctly summarized how I value my game time.

Thanks for posting.

Right. Wait a year to play. That was my point. Just not for me. Might not be for others, either. Hence, the thread.

I think it is fair to say that if one joins a corporation, or always plays in a group, he can experience a great deal more of the game while waiting for his skills to train than a solo player. This does not negate the validity of my point; it only narrows the conditions under which it fully applies.

Nothing you do will get you a better ship or better skills. Just the passage of time.

If you call "holding your own in a PvP engagement in low-sec with a pilot flying the same ship as you," endgame, then I agree.

I appreciate the added perspective. But I fail to see how this could help me "see farther and clearer than the unimaginative masses" where the utility of EVE's current skills-training mechanism is concerned. It's all pretty cut-and-dry. If a player wants to fly A ship and fit B mods, he will train C skills, which will take D time. And this requires my imagination to appreciate?

I recently lost two Manticores. And no, I would not attribute their loss to SP. I lost them because I was willing to risk them to gain experience, which I did. I have more Manticores yet to be lost.

Was there a point in you making this thread personal?

I thought EVE was about doing what you want, and not being like the mindless masses. Seems like the universe just got a lot smaller than EVE veterans were leading us all to believe.

I would brand about 1% of what has been directly said to meGÇöby those opposed to my positionGÇö as "help." The odd thing is... I don't recall asking for help. I don't recall being dissatisfied with my performance in the game. I really don't know how these things became the focus (among many other off-topic issues).

You, and others, have been making assumptions in this thread all day. This post is just par for the course.

You do realise that each and every one of us started as a new player.. The older ones under arguably harsher conditions even. It is a challenge. Rise to it, or leave. Only you can decide if you're having fun.

That I have correctly summarized the pilot-progression mechanics in EVE has been validated by numerous other posters. It is a consolation, at least, that some EVE players have not drunk the kool-aid, but are willing to embrace the bad with the good.

But don't, for a minute, try to pawn off the idea that such a player would ever choose to spend six months of game time doing those other things, were his "journey" to piloting a black-ops battleship actually determined by his direct investment toward such! He'd never set foot in mining vessel! He'd never see the inside of a trading hub! He'd never, ever, subject himself to the inane hacking mini-game! Ever!

That is nonsense. Pick any T2 combat ship and forgo training upgraded weapons systems before you "take 'er out." You would, indeed, lose it in the first engagement, regardless of whatever human skills you may have picked up flying T1 ships. Human skills will carry a pilot only so far as the framework of the game allow. And that isn't very far without properly trained-for, and waited-for, skills.

On what basis is the correctness of your position founded?

I believe the video you posted proves my point quite nicely, as the first comment on the page shows:

"That is the worst/best thing I have ever seen. Clearly someone that trained up to fly a BS with absolutely NO secondary skills or knowledge of how to play. Sad/good.n++"

Oops. Took that shiny new ship out without training the weaps/mods needed to make it worth a hill of beans.

Seriously. If you were trying to contest the point I was making, you did the exact opposite.

Are you serious? You can't be serious! The shortest training time (unmodified by implants) to any T2 ship, specialized or not, is over three weeks. The average is two months.

My hypothetical was a combat ship improperly fitted. You have not disputed the futility of that hypothetical, but have instead introduced a hypothetical of your own which purports to prove a perpendicular pointGÇömods aren't everything...a point which I have not argued one way or the other, and which is not relevant to my point.

Can you also do everything you can do in a T3 ship in a T1 ship?

That is true only under certain conditions. As is my point.

Gee whiz. If only someone would tell this to highsec miners. They would be encouraged to know that all they need to dominate those three Catalysts blasting holes in their hull is a little bit o' "player skill." If they only knew it were so easy. Oh... you weren't talking about mining vessels, were you. You were talking about cargo ships.

Good deal. Care to substantiate that with something other than your "personal guarantee"? I mean, you have all the evidence for the other points... Youtube vids and killboards, etc. No hypotheticals, remember. That's for us noobs.

Oh, do yourself proud. Choose something impressive. Let's see something clearly designed for a T3 pilot being done by a T1 pilot. I will prepare to be impressed!

If I am a troll, then what does that say about y'all? Oh, the implications...

I didn't just kowtow to their weak, subjective arguments.

Be patient. As you can see, I am fielding completely useless posts from many posters simultaneously. If I only had "Moron Management" up to level 5, I could handle them all much more efficiently. Training time is 21 days, so if you can't wait, complain to the devs.

Gee, if I didn't know better, I'd say that was a head-nod to the OP.

If I didn't know better...