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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1599
   |
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Your Post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Azz-6oT08c
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1599
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 20:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:
The only limit is your imagination
The "problem" I have brought up is that one cannot influence the timetable for acquiring specific skills. Your point does not address this. So, I continue to stand firm in that there is no in-game solution for this problem.[/quote]
Dude, let me tell you a story.
Back in my day in 2007 we had these skills called "Learning Skills". They were skills that increased that rate at which you trained your skills!
If you were smart, you'd train them all to Level 3 or maybe 4 and then start your normal training. However, some people convinced themselves they needed to train them all to Level 5 immediately or they were "losing skillpoints".
So, these people spent months training learning skills and not playing the game so that they wouldn't "lose skillpoints" and many of them got angry and quit and made whine threads about how unfair EVE was. CCP eventually removed learning skills, and baked their benefits into our characters (we all basically have them at Level 5 from day 1 now).
Personally, I miss learning skills. They were a right of pasage and the way you approached them told a lot about you. The absolute min-maxers would freak out about training anything besides them before hitting Level 5, and others would only train them to 3 or 4 and then go train for ships and weapons to have fun. There were glorious forum arguments.
But most importantly, they were a filter: A method of keeping the "I Want It Now" people away. It was a right of passage that is sadly lost.
Because, truthfully, learning skills never really mattered. Even if you NEVER trained them you're still gaining skillpoints and, if you are spending those on getting into fun stuff, then more power to you. Learning skills were never some absolute prerequisite to enjoying EVE, but many people convinced themselves otherwise.
Karak Kashada wrote:You did not understand my post, sir. Not even close. Others have likewise failed to understand what was being said. That's not my problem, though.
Now, do you have any questions?
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1603
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 22:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:My wife, who was carrying more than her load at work as a result of other employees' laziness, approached her employer for a raise. She was told that she would receive nickel more per hour after a certain amount of time had passed, and that similar raises would be forthcoming on the same principle. She quit soon thereafter.
So she was going to get her raise then?
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1603
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:
Exactly. And that is why I am left feeling that my in-game time is not valued by CCP. For their game is structured to reward the best ships and mods on the basis of... nothing. Well, other than your real-world money. For you can buy the game and not play it for a year, spend a little cash on PLEX to convert to ISK, and... viola!... you got "the best" ship out there for no in-game investment. And no amount of in-game effort will affect that timetable. Wow. Can it get any clearer?
And you will get owned in your pimped out ship and get made fun of on EVENews24 and The Mittani. But then you might learn SP is not equal to skill.
You keep saying that you aren't wanting everything right now, but all your posts scream "I Want It Now!"
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1603
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That's because ships and mods are not rewards (and the best ones have fairly low skill requirements anyway). Your in-game time is rewarded by gameplay experience GÇö the thing that really lets you beat the snot out of less experienced opponents. If you don't value the time you and other players put in, then that's your problem, not CCP's.
The journey is the reward
-- Taoist Proverb
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1603
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Karak Kashada wrote:
Exactly. And that is why I am left feeling that my in-game time is not valued by CCP. For their game is structured to reward the best ships and mods on the basis of... nothing. Well, other than your real-world money. For you can buy the game and not play it for a year, spend a little cash on PLEX to convert to ISK, and... viola!... you got "the best" ship out there for no in-game investment. And no amount of in-game effort will affect that timetable. Wow. Can it get any clearer?
And you will get owned in your pimped out ship and get made fun of on EVENews24 and The Mittani. But then you might learn SP is not equal to skill. You keep saying that you aren't wanting everything right now, but all your posts scream "I Want It Now!" No, they do not. They screamGÇöif they scream at allGÇö"Make my in-game time worth something!" And, for the record, no matter how many posters attempt to cram this "I want it now" nonsense down my throat, it will continue to be a strawman argument. Not once have I clamored for anything "right now." I will be happy to see the same amount of time pass before I can pilot a certain ship or fit a certain mod. I simply am not amenable to the mechanism CCP has built.
I don't think you're reading all your replies, you should take a look at my one about Learning Skills.
You are stuck on the classic fallacy that EVE is about SP and big boats.
I am going to quote another, older, thread. It was about the Phoenix being useless, but there is one particular reply you should look at.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=145242
This guy basically was killing Cyno kestrels with a deadspace fit Phoenix and eventually got hot dropped, please examine the killboards (I assume you've played EVE long enough to read a killboard).
In other words, we have someone who pimped a dread, decided to solo with it, and got owned. He got his awesome ship, he had his awesome mods, and he had the SP to fly it -- but he still lost because he didn't know enough about the game to know that becoming known as the guy who solos Cyno Kestrels in his dread is a bad idea.
If you, as you propose, could just plop into a dread whenever you grind your way to "Dread Level" or whatever, we'd be seeing a lot more losses like this.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1604
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:
I appreciate the added perspective. But I fail to see how this could help me "see farther and clearer than the unimaginative masses" where the utility of EVE's current skills-training mechanism is concerned. It's all pretty cut-and-dry. If a player wants to fly A ship and fit B mods, he will train C skills, which will take D time. And this requires my imagination to appreciate?
Here's another quote for you.
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens
--Jimi Hendrix
Lets keep with the Phoenix example. Yes, stepping into that ship and fitting the mods does take a certain amount of time that can only somewhat be reduced by remapping and implants. However...
If I were to step into a Phoenix, I would fly it better because as a veteran player I understand the game mechanics behind it, have an idea when to and when not to use it, and I'd have better support skills for it anyway since I've played with and mastered other ships.
I would also have the wisdom not solo PVP with it, and to fit a siege module so I do more DPS than a cruiser.
However, if you were to plan a skill tree for a Phoenix with a cookie cutter fit, log in only to train skills until it was done, and then come back to fly your PLEXed Phoenix (because you didn't earn any in-game money only training skills), you are going to be annihilated.
For example, you might not know that a Phoenix can't jump through a stargate so you'd warp to a gate, get tackled, and get an embarrassing loss mail when you get killed by 3 neuting battleships.
Part of the skill training in EVE is to give you time to learn so that this doesn't happen.
Also, your posts imply you want "big boats" because you are clearly not satisfied with playing with frigs and destroyers until your skills improve. Otherwise this thread would not exist.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1604
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:If you'd like, I could recommend some ships/fits for a quarter of the price of your bomber which might just get you some kills. I thought EVE was about doing what you want, and not being like the mindless masses. Seems like the universe just got a lot smaller than EVE veterans were leading us all to believe.
You can always throw off the shackes of the unimaginative masses like the Phoenix pilot who soloed cyno ships.
Maybe the reason that those fits are common is because they actually work? Besides, no fit is idiot proof and you need in-game practical experience to use them well. I've seen people confused as to what to do with an Alpha Mael in an Alphafleet.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1604
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:
Since I am a photographer, I relish dismissing both of your positions as not applicable to me. But you just keep applying assumptions. Self-assumed wisdom can be called wisdom, after all.
Why do you so quickly brush off perfectly sound advice?
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1605
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:
I would brand about 1% of what has been directly said to meGÇöby those opposed to my positionGÇö as "help." The odd thing is... I don't recall asking for help. I don't recall being dissatisfied with my performance in the game. I really don't know how these things became the focus (among many other off-topic issues).
So, if you aren't dissatisfied what is all this about? Your entire OP is based on your assumption that the skill system is inhibiting your gameplay because you can't just fly whatever you want. You've even made posts about how you can't separate yourself from the lazy masses.
Karak Kashada wrote:
I thought EVE was about doing what you want, and not being like the mindless masses. Seems like the universe just got a lot smaller than EVE veterans were leading us all to believe.
While you can try whatever you want, you are not guaranteed to succeed at whatever you try. Indeed. Nor are you guaranteed to fail. I seem to recall someone posting something about being more imaginative that the masses... one minute it's good, the next it's bad. Crazy, eh?
In my experience, many people who claim they are unappreciated for their original thinking are really unappreciated because they have little to no knowledge of their field and are just making stuff up. Just because your idea is "original" does not make it good.
You're getting some good advice in this thread, you should consider taking it.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
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masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1605
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:
I don't have to realize any such thing, because I disagree that my perception is flawed. If you disagree with it, so be it, but my perception cannot be any more or less flawed than your own.
So you are appointing yourself as the objective and reliable observer and we are all just irrational trolls who don't understand you?
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1605
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:
Yes. You missed my comments in the OP about time value, etc.
Your in-game time is valuable, because it gives you the practical knowledge to use your tools. Not to mention EVE isn't about the ships or the modules, it is about the dynamic relationships between the player driven groups. Those are just tools to make that possible.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1605
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:Erufen Rito wrote:
Care to enlighten me, I simply cannot see it.
No, I do not care to. It is there as plain as day. If you cannot see it, you didn't ever read it. At least, that is the only polite conclusion I can offer.
You ever considered running for political office?
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1606
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 01:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:Claud Tiberius wrote:I have to pretty much agree with the OP. As a new player I feel there is a huge amount of training and a huge amount of experience required to become competitive, which isn't so easy to obtain since EVE is a very unforgiving game and new accounts do not have the same source of income as older accounts. The fun factor is limited. You do realise that each and every one of us started as a new player.. The older ones under arguably harsher conditions even. It is a challenge. Rise to it, or leave. Only you can decide if you're having fun. Harsher conditions - I don't think so. There were not always higher level players and the game probably wasn't as populated as it is now. Rising to the challenge is easier said then done. Its either trial and error, repeated many times over. Or you are luckily enough to have someone hold your hand. Erufen Rito wrote:I'm not going to try and tell you that you are wrong. Being a new player CAN limit what you can't and cannot do, and how often you can afford to die. Granted, you have to learn the game, and that will often cost you money.
But again, playing catch up is really a non issue. There is a fixed number of skills that will affect a ship and it's modules, so after a bit of time, you will be as good at doing whatever you specizlised in doing as the 10 year vet, SP at least. The rest comes from playing the game and knowing how to react to the different situations you can find yourself in. Indeed, after a "while".
A 2014 character telling a 2007 character he doesn't know what the game was like back then
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1606
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 01:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Having played MMOs where most of the player base are institutionalized (jail/hospital/whatever) or in high school becasue you need bulk free time to succeed I much prefer the EVE system.
What country lets you play MMOs in jail?
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
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