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Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 18:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are two main issues with ballistic control systems.
1) cost more CPU than other damage mods at all meta levels for what amounts to the same bonuses (ROF and damage multiplier)
Ex: T2 BCS uses 40TF CPU, T2 Magnetic Field Stabilizer uses 30TF CPU.
They have identical bonuses to RoF (10.5%) and Damage (10% / 1.1x)
2) There is no Tracking Enhancer module for missiles (shut up about TP's they work for turrets as well).
My solution:
For the extra cpu BCS should give 4% to explosion velocity that doesn't stack. This solves many of the damage application problems from rockets all the way up to citadel torpdoes with no need to adjust anything else.
This eliminates the need for a new special mod, ammunition adjustments and only requires a small tweak to the phoenix in the future. Issues I've considered - making small and medium missiles apply damage far too effectively...its possible but worth the risk considering that missiles are currently the most nerf'd weapons system in game. Heavy missiles were turned way down to balance them against crappy medium long range trurrets (it worked) and then that was undermined when medium long range turrets were buffed later. This would undo that to a large degree by giving heavy missiles superior damage application.
That would also allow the adjustment of the navy drake which is currently pathetic. So feel free to crap on the idea because now your speed tanking cruiser can't take it anymore. |

Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3268
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Passive low-slot ballistic enhancer module that provides 20% missile velocity, 10% explosion velocity and 10% explosion radius. Voila. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 18:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
my point is that a new mod is unnecessary |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 18:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
the drone damage amp uses more CPU than turret damage mods, and it gets a lesser bonus. i guess the balance comes in where missile heavy ships get extra CPU, maybe its to put a penalty trying to use missiles on a not so missile based ship. doable, but at a cost.
and yes, i realise that argument falls apart when it comes to putting turrets on a missile focussed ship. 
there is no tracking enhancer for missiles because there is no tracking disruptor for missiles. I hear CCP tried to make one,but it didnt work. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |

Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3269
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:my point is that a new mod is unnecessary And my point is that we need one. If drones will receive new low-slot omni and navigation modules, certainly missiles can receive a single low-slot ballistic enhancer. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
158
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:the drone damage amp uses more CPU than turret damage mods, and it gets a lesser bonus. i guess the balance comes in where missile heavy ships get extra CPU, maybe its to put a penalty trying to use missiles on a not so missile based ship. doable, but at a cost. and yes, i realise that argument falls apart when it comes to putting turrets on a missile focussed ship.  there is no tracking enhancer for missiles because there is no tracking disruptor for missiles. I hear CCP tried to make one,but it didnt work. You don't need a tracking disruptor for missiles when you can use a sensor damp. Or speed. Or sig tank. Or have enough range to warp off before the missiles even get there. Or smart bombs. Or Defenders (if they were actually useable for the role they are supposed to fill). Defenders need to be fixed and you have plenty of counters to missiles.
+1 for more another missile mod. |

Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3269
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:there is no tracking enhancer for missiles because there is no tracking disruptor for missiles. I hear CCP tried to make one,but it didnt work. There's no tracking disruptor for drones, either.  I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
737
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
or just bring its cpu requirement in line with the rest of them at 30 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

HandelsPharmi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
523
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Balancing is one of the HARDEST jobs in EVE. You can "create" new modules while you are pretty drunk, but never balance them as the employees of CCP do. |

Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3270
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:Balancing is one of the HARDEST jobs in EVE. You can "create" new modules while you are pretty drunk, but never balance them as the employees of CCP do. Then there's rapid launchersGǪ  I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
360
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Giving the ballistic control units and Drone Damage Augmentors the same stats as the comparable turret damage modules makes a great deal of sense. It would make overall balancing ships easier too.
And of course there should be a low and mid-slot equivalent to the tracking computer and tracking enhancer. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1333
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 22:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:the drone damage amp uses more CPU than turret damage mods, and it gets a lesser bonus. i guess the balance comes in where missile heavy ships get extra CPU, maybe its to put a penalty trying to use missiles on a not so missile based ship. doable, but at a cost. and yes, i realise that argument falls apart when it comes to putting turrets on a missile focussed ship.  there is no tracking enhancer for missiles because there is no tracking disruptor for missiles. I hear CCP tried to make one,but it didnt work. You don't need a tracking disruptor for missiles when you can use a sensor damp. Or speed. Or sig tank. Or have enough range to warp off before the missiles even get there. Or smart bombs. Or Defenders (if they were actually useable for the role they are supposed to fill). Defenders need to be fixed and you have plenty of counters to missiles. +1 for more another missile mod.
u can speed and sig tank turrets. wtf?
Arthur Aihaken wrote:There's no tracking disruptor for drones, either.
no u can just shoot drones 
what the hell is wrong with these ppl? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1270
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 22:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:There are two main issues with ballistic control systems.
1) cost more CPU than other damage mods at all meta levels for what amounts to the same bonuses (ROF and damage multiplier)
Ex: T2 BCS uses 40TF CPU, T2 Magnetic Field Stabilizer uses 30TF CPU.
They have identical bonuses to RoF (10.5%) and Damage (10% / 1.1x)
2) There is no Tracking Enhancer module for missiles (shut up about TP's they work for turrets as well).
My solution:
For the extra cpu BCS should give 4% to explosion velocity that doesn't stack. This solves many of the damage application problems from rockets all the way up to citadel torpdoes with no need to adjust anything else.
This eliminates the need for a new special mod, ammunition adjustments and only requires a small tweak to the phoenix in the future. Issues I've considered - making small and medium missiles apply damage far too effectively...its possible but worth the risk considering that missiles are currently the most nerf'd weapons system in game. Heavy missiles were turned way down to balance them against crappy medium long range trurrets (it worked) and then that was undermined when medium long range turrets were buffed later. This would undo that to a large degree by giving heavy missiles superior damage application.
That would also allow the adjustment of the navy drake which is currently pathetic. So feel free to crap on the idea because now your speed tanking cruiser can't take it anymore.
Came expecting something else, left supporting the op... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |

Caleb Seremshur
Capital Storm. Black Flag Society
220
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 23:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
The missile formula favours velocity bonused ships. The main rigs to load on a ship when going for damage application is flares (?) due to the desperate need for more explosion velocity on most missiles LP store weapon cost rebalance |

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1168
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 00:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:The missile formula favours velocity bonused ships. The main rigs to load on a ship when going for damage application is flares (?) due to the desperate need for more explosion velocity on most missiles
Nah, rigours are always superior to flares. That's why flares take less calibration.  |

Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3270
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 00:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Nah, rigours are always superior to flares. That's why flares take less calibration.  Correct. Once you're inside the target's signature radius rigors apply a bonus to explosion velocity. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
194
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 03:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:the drone damage amp uses more CPU than turret damage mods, and it gets a lesser bonus. i guess the balance comes in where missile heavy ships get extra CPU, maybe its to put a penalty trying to use missiles on a not so missile based ship. doable, but at a cost. and yes, i realise that argument falls apart when it comes to putting turrets on a missile focussed ship.  there is no tracking enhancer for missiles because there is no tracking disruptor for missiles. I hear CCP tried to make one,but it didnt work.
So lets see drone damage amps
30 cpu...just like all the other non-bcs damage mods
23% damage increase...well that seems curiously like a 10% damage pump and a 10% RoF pump all in one stat. So more alpha...a lot more alpha since drones already have a fairly high RoF. You sir are illiterate. Please go back to crime and punishment and derail threads there.
Drones even have mid slot tracking mods. Missiles do not. Drones are even harder to use e-war on than missiles. jackiechanwtf.jpg |

Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 04:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Passive low-slot ballistic enhancer module that provides 20% missile velocity, 10% explosion velocity and 10% explosion radius. Voila. make that a med slot so we can forget about tps and im sold |

Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3270
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 04:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vinyl 41 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Passive low-slot ballistic enhancer module that provides 20% missile velocity, 10% explosion velocity and 10% explosion radius. Voila. make that a med slot so we can forget about tps and im sold Why not both? Passive low-slot version and active medium-slot version. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 04:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
lows damage meds aplication or my golem gets 4 more lows |

Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1149
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 04:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
The real fun begins in these threads when someone points out that due to falloff mechanics, a +range/+falloff mod is actually quite a large damage increase for gun ships, especially for projectiles/hybrids.
Oops, did I say that out loud?
*evil grin* |

Liam Inkuras
Justified Chaos
920
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 05:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
If like to see your proposed changes implemented Cody, as I think they could really help some of the lacking weapon systems. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |

Enya Sparhawk
State Protectorate Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 05:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hmmm... you know I'd like to see some sort of high slot mod for a missle bonus... even trading off a high for an ammo can/clip expander would still be favourable...
Maybe something for reload times... F+¡orghr+í: Gr+í na f+¡rinne D+¬an g+íire...Tiocfaidh +ír l+í |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
363
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 07:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
I've always thought there should be rigs that increase clip size for weapons. Would be useful for certain ships, especially rapid launchers. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |

Justin Cody
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
197
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 08:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
please stop thread-jacking. concentrate on the OP and go with that line of thought. If you want to discuss clip/magazine size then please start a thread on it. |

TehCloud
Mastercard. Swipe Here
228
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 09:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:there is no tracking enhancer for missiles because there is no tracking disruptor for missiles. I hear CCP tried to make one,but it didnt work. There's no tracking disruptor for drones, either.  Drones can be shot down though. My Condor costs less than that module! |

Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 10:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
TehCloud wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:there is no tracking enhancer for missiles because there is no tracking disruptor for missiles. I hear CCP tried to make one,but it didnt work. There's no tracking disruptor for drones, either.  Drones can be shot down though. missles can be shot down too - smartbombs or you can use defenders to reduce the salvo damage on missles so its not like there isnt anything that works like tracking disrupting for guns  |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1338
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 12:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
smartbombs are not exactly an equivalent to tracking disruptors.
the effort and resources between the two is quite different.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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