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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.15 09:26:00 -
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Yes , pretty please , give rattler another high . It makes sense . |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.15 09:46:00 -
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Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:Ahernar wrote:Yes , pretty please , give rattler another high . It makes sense . Also give it a larger drone bay and and a cov op cloak!
That would be good on the Nestor . No .Just another high would be enough to be in the same ballpark with the NM, Vindi and Mach (IMHO) |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.15 10:36:00 -
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It's the same dps with heavyes and sentries but less with meds and lights . Missiles are buffed BUT with only 2 launchers if we keep the 2 DCU 's needed before . So a buff of +2 launchers with no heavy /sentry changes from before (but with a loss of med/light drone bonus) or a buff of +3.5 launchers with serious nerf to the drone system (range +the small meds effect ) .It's still the worst of the pirate BS's by far, not counting the poor Nestor .
It's a good buff but can be much better . |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.15 10:57:00 -
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You must be joking , no ? Seriously - i recommend just another highslot , to keep the old drone damage profile with the full missile buff . |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.15 12:31:00 -
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But have you drived them ? I have 2 and 2 nightmares and i know what pair is more effective . Rattlesnakes are good on paper but pretty laborious to use (drone aggro+missile time) , so much that maybe is half isk/effort vs other choices . One highslot will surely not make them OP but without it i'm going to go vargur for the non EM profile .
Btw - thanks CCP for the NM buff , wasn't really needed but i cannot complain :)
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.16 05:39:00 -
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Arthur Aihaken wrote:Instead of a 5th launcher on the Rattlesnake, what about a 7th low slot or 8th mid slot instead?
RS needs another high (or keep the launcher count and compensate by bonus ++ ) . That or the RS pilots will have to change the way are using it . It could find itself a niche or it will become meh again . The chance to get it wrong again it's in the air.
It's not much of a buff if 2 kin therm launchers are costing you the old drone flexibility ,light med drone damage bonus and -50% missile speed .
It's not much of a buff if 3.5 kin therm launchers are costing you the old drone flexibility ,light med drone damage bonus -50% missile speed and crucially makes you slowboat 20-30km after a mjd until you can engage with drones .
At least IMO "rebalance" got it closer to the other pirate battleships but definitely not in the pack . |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.16 16:40:00 -
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wrote:
drone range? I thought we were talking about missile range. what sort of laughable rattlesnake are you running that has 2 drone link augs?
The one that can shoot after making a mjd jump? Not everyone stays in the middle of a sanctum , FYI .
Btw - as it is the current version is very viable for PVE in null . Not so as a mission runner and even less in pvp .
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.16 17:05:00 -
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Quote:
Not only will you be able to field a full flight of lights but lights that are boosted by 3x DDA's. I dont really see a problem here
No problem , but can you imagine that we had 7.5 lights boosted by 3XDDA''s ?
I'm sure that we will use rigs for link range so in the end the tank or cap will suffer a little .
Ok , the gods should check their spreadsheets and make a decision .
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.17 16:19:00 -
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I simply wish that this ship should be usefull in other roles than gurista/serpentis anom runner and bait.
The ones with other interests should abstain from the discution - it's funny trying to explain to us that the nightmare or vindicator are of equal value to a rattlesnake- in the end we are speaking for the devs not for the masses . |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.17 16:57:00 -
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The rattler as a fleet boat is very wrong , will be a tracking dread's wet dream .
I said before it's a bait ship , nobody will engage you unless they are 5-10 and you are in a anomaly . You will also never catch anything ... err maybe industrials ?
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.18 16:56:00 -
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Back to the key points.
1 Rattlesnakes were BAD . Like 400mils vs 800mils bad compared to the other pirate BS's . Badder than a Navy raven (no prob with the supply for those too ) .
2 They got a half hearted buff . Yes , the paper DPS was increased . The real dps ... not by much . Those furies will not hit for full damage if the rigs are for drones (it's not the case in a raven). If you then use vanilla ammo all you got is some slow coming 200 dps.Almost 20 seconds slow , it's an eternity , arties are going to almost cycle twice before the first salvo arrives . Also longer flight time = lost dps in salvo counts , defenders and stuff . Other kind of dps was taken - the now unbonused light drones are dps lost on drone system which was supposed to cover the defficiencies of the missile sys . Because of the MISSING HIGHSLOT you will not have a healthy chance to snipe frigs at range so you will have to ditch the bonused sentries and wait for the standard drones to chew at the frigs in you pirate BS that just becomed a worse raven (not even navy) .
3 Short range or long range unlike a raven the thing must be stationary or be inferior .
4 This ship will not be MJD friendly
So , are you still wondering why a CNR is priced over a rattlesnake ATM ? |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.18 17:40:00 -
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Make those "80km" (in fact 74 blinged and with all5 skills ) 100 |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.20 04:08:00 -
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Read the fking thread again , the rattlers will be stationary and this means dread food .Expensive dread food .
Let's try to put the cart on track again .
I'm curious why from so many "experts" here nobody remembered the Dominix NAVY , how is fitted and why . That is the Rattler simulator , costs 500mil , have the same dmg/range dillema (and plenty of not paper dps too , up to 1200 at 50km ). That thing also has instant damage ,bonused lights and 400mc of dronebay . Can CCP exchange the stats :) ? Pretty please ?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65493-Dominix-Navy-Issue-Navy-Domi-MJD-kiter-Mark-I.html
The paper dps issue is real you will need at least -3mid ( 1 tp , 2 omnis) leaving you with a 2 slot tank , 1MJD and 1AB .
I think the rattler will be a good choice for solo chars but will remain the meh ship i found myself into at the start of my eve journey . I used in 2010 one to break the jamming of the first gurista station sanctum spawn then go back in the station to bring a vanilla raven which worked better with my skills .
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.20 07:54:00 -
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baltec1 wrote:. Heavy drones will still kill frigates and sentries will snipe them away easily enough.
I really wonder now what is the reason for the existence of the light drones... |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.21 06:12:00 -
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[quote=baltec1
The ship is getting a bonus to all types of missiles, its more adaptable then before and the drone changes means they can now justify a logi repping them. The new rattle is a lot more versatile than the old one which is seen as the worst of the pirate BS and less useful than most t1 hulls.[/quote]
No man , the max dps rattle will know just one thing - better dps than any other choices to battleships up to 80 km and drastically less dps outside that target type and envelope than any other choices including a vanilla raven.Also this means no MJD .
So personally i will skip the generous and toxic offer of the fifth launcher and use the thing like now but with 2 more launchers .
For them i will pay with the velocity bonus , partial ammo selectability ,and the lights effectiveness . If the first 2 were no real biggies the lights are important point , when you have full room aggro the think to kill is the scramming frig (s) , not the 6'th battleship from the left .That or press MJD - if it's available . Also in this version of ship until the lights finishes the job the sentries are in bay so all that remains from your firepower are those 4 semi bonused semi nerfed launchers.
I think the ship pays too much for the buffs to call them buffs - it's the old ****** but pretty Rattle but with with a new flavor of **** .
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.21 07:11:00 -
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baltec1 wrote:Ahernar wrote:
No man , the max dps rattle will know just one thing - better dps than any other choices to battleships up to 80 km and drastically less dps outside that target type and envelope than any other choices including a vanilla raven.Also this means no MJD .
So personally i will skip the generous and toxic offer of the fifth launcher and use the thing like now but with 2 more launchers .
For them i will pay with the velocity bonus , partial ammo selectability ,and the lights effectiveness . If the first 2 were no real biggies the lights are important point , when you have full room aggro the think to kill is the scramming frig (s) , not the 6'th battleship from the left .That or press MJD - if it's available . Also in this version of ship until the lights finishes the job the sentries are in bay so all that remains from your firepower are those 4 semi bonused semi nerfed launchers.
I think the ship pays too much for the buffs to call them buffs - it's the old ****** but pretty Rattle but with with a new flavor of **** .
What exactly is stopping you from fitting a MJD?
You can fit it but it would be unused except "oh ****" moments. It's because after using it you will have to slowboat 20 km until resuming sentry fire . Would be smarter to fit anything else (TP's for ex) . I will totally fit one if i would have a spare mid but now is pretty cramped there with tank , omnis , tp's and a mandatory AB .
Ofc this is the LVL4 POV - for anomalies all is go for launch - i totally understand your POV . And i know enough pvp to be unenthousiastic about an imobile platform .
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.21 07:39:00 -
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"That said, if I was gonna use the RS to snipe with the sentries, I don't think I would mind using a drone range rig at the cost of a smaller tank."
Very valid option too , except there are some problems with CPU limiting the fitting options ( one more launcher and some less cpu = some trouble on the fitting front ) |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.21 14:13:00 -
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baltec1 wrote:
I lose ALL of my guns when small ships get under them. Rattle still has its bonused launchers to help its light drones.
No , you change target to something farther . Rattler cannot do that , the other drones are in the bay . And don't tell me that you are only dueling the rats :)
End of story - enjoy your anom runner but don't expect the highsec to buy it . It's a anom runner not a mission runner .
CCP - you got it ?
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Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.21 14:27:00 -
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You see ... the ideea isn't if you like the ship or not or that if you are content or not . The ideea is to buff the rs TO THE LEVEL of the OTHER pirate BS's . Making it the best Gurista /Serpentis anom runner is not something i call gameplay niche - but if ccp wants let it bee :) |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.21 14:37:00 -
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Jenn aSide wrote:
The current Rattlesnake is a mission and anom runner, nothing CCP is changing if going to kill it's ability to run missions.
You lack the positive sec status usually asociated with missioning competence :) Let a true carebear to speak about ships and missions , please ... |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.21 14:51:00 -
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Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Because nobody in EVE Online has alts, right? You may have forgotten that little detail.
The burden of proof is on you .2014 isn't 2005 to have missioning alts in empire to fund pvp in null . Maybe just to unwind - but the need to efficiency is lost in this scenario . I was in both places and know better . |
Ahernar
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Posted - 2014.04.24 16:04:00 -
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Frostys Virpio wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Why not just get rid of the Sentry bonus altogether and give the Rattlesnake an OP heavy drone bonus? Let it run 4 heavies @ 200% damage, hit points and velocity. People are already mad at losing a free high for a DLA because they can't snipe in their tank bonused BS. I personally would be in favor of your idea.
No longer "mad" , i finally got it . There are Other ships capable of doing that .Since i multibox i will gladly lose some paper DPS to be able to click my way through 2 main weap sys instead of 4 and the price IS higher so i even made some money too betting in a RS improvement .
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