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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
18
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
the gal/cal warzone is broken
gallente are way better and everyone knows it
almost everyone with a brain joins gallente because they dont want to get steamrolled in a computer game in their free time
this results in the average caldari pilot being a "sheep" and the average gallente pilot being a "wolf"
debunked counterarguments:
1) the warzone is fine
the mass exodus of caldari pilots is evidence that this is wrong
2) we just have to wait for the durrrpendulum to swing back
waiting for more enemies to throw themselves into the meat grinder is not a solution to the core problem
3) the caldari need more sheep commanders
it has been noted that all the caldari sheep commanders quit FW because the sheeps were simply too "sheepish" to allow themselves to be shepherded effectively
furthermore, 40 sheeps lead by a wolf commander still lose to 40 wolves lead by anyone with a pulse (im looking at you guiynan).
my proposed solution: one or more gallente alliances defect to caldari
in this way wolves can fight against wolves which will create a much more satisfactory gaming experience for those seeking competitive pvp |
pyronatic
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 00:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
The pendulum effect isn't a solution, It also gets boring having to wait. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
491
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
I consider myself more a tortoise than a sheep or wolf, but interesting stuff to ponder inside my shell. Thanks. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
946
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
In b4 lock for ranting.
Mate you proposed the same thing last time and got a clear response pretty much saying that no Gal group would defect to Calmil.
You have a point around the respective skill levels but if no one wants to move you are just repeating your original rant. Think of another solution that doesn't involve them defecting.
If you really want to make Calmil into a formidable force there is really only one way to do it.
Start up a small corp of 'good' player you know and slowly build them up. Ignoring the general militia and only bringing on players who match your standards/ideals.
This would make your group the 'elite' group for caldari and give the newer players something to role model off. Simple really. If you try to FC the whole militia then you are just biting off more than you can chew. But getting a decent corp, one that doesn't wave their epeens around and act like douches while giving good fights and showing lesser players how to do it properly is the only way to start changing the 'culture' of Calmil. Then at some point in the future you would hopefully get some offshoots from your corp or copycats wanting to emulate your successes/reputation etc.
THAT is how you change Calmil not just asking people to defect and mess with relationships/standing etc that they may have spend years building up. It is a culture change that require great effort to push through. And tbh it is probably one of the hardest things to do to any group especially one as fragmented as the militias. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
18
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Posted - 2014.04.15 00:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
m8 i am not ranting ok m8?
i just want to generate more discussion on this topic.
thank you for your proposed solution.
i agree that it might work, however... can it be implemented immediately like my solution can?
where will this mystical group of good pvpers come from who will lead caldari to victory? |
Combatevolved
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 01:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Caldari are fine, leave us alone.
Who cares if we have 0 system. There is no winning FW, only derping. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
948
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 01:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:m8 i am not ranting ok m8?
i just want to generate more discussion on this topic.
thank you for your proposed solution.
i agree that it might work, however... can it be implemented immediately like my solution can?
where will this mystical group of good pvpers come from who will lead caldari to victory?
Repeated posting of the original arguments are a rant. Especially when your original solutions haven't gained much/if any support.
TBH there is NO quick fix. If your 'elite' gallente killer group did defect then they would just have the same problems as the FC's you have already dismissed.
The players are out there. What is required is to give them the incentive to come and fight for you and calmil.
It is a cultural thing and is one of the hardest issues to tackle in any enviroment. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1100
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:m8 i am not ranting ok m8?
i just want to generate more discussion on this topic.
thank you for your proposed solution.
i agree that it might work, however... can it be implemented immediately like my solution can?
where will this mystical group of good pvpers come from who will lead caldari to victory?
CALDARI ARE BETTER CAUSE THEY HAVE CAPSLOCK & SHIFT KEYS ON THEIR KEYBOARDS. Docked since 2009. |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
18
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 01:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Repeated posting of the original arguments are a rant. no
Taoist Dragon wrote:TBH there is NO quick fix. ok
Taoist Dragon wrote: If your 'elite' gallente killer group did defect then they would just have the same problems as the FC's you have already dismissed. this is wrong because the FCs i dismissed were dealing with sheep. the gallente group would already contain a functioning fleet.
Taoist Dragon wrote:The players are out there. What is required is to give them the incentive to come and fight for you and calmil. this is exactly the problem that im talking about. there is no incentive to join cal mil because all they do is lose.
Taoist Dragon wrote:It is a cultural thing and is one of the hardest issues to tackle in any enviroment. cool |
SmokinJs Arthie
Justified Chaos
13
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Just wait for the next failed null-sec alliance to join the Caldari. Next thing you'll know you be spouting out "why can't can't you hold your systems gayllente," in local. It's just the natural progression of things. |
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Combatevolved
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
44
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Posted - 2014.04.15 01:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:Just wait for the next failed null-sec alliance to join the Caldari. Next thing you'll know you be spouting out "why can't can't you hold your systems gayllente," in local. It's just the natural progression of things.
Don't you hold your systems though? The main systems havent been taken in years. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
948
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 02:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote: If your 'elite' gallente killer group did defect then they would just have the same problems as the FC's you have already dismissed. this is wrong because the FCs i dismissed were dealing with sheep. the gallente group would already contain a functioning fleet. Taoist Dragon wrote:The players are out there. What is required is to give them the incentive to come and fight for you and calmil. this is exactly the problem that im talking about. there is no incentive to join cal mil because all they do is lose. Taoist Dragon wrote:It is a cultural thing and is one of the hardest issues to tackle in any enviroment. cool
The Gal corp would still have to deal with the Calmil 'sheep'. There is also a good chance that a Galmil group wouldn't feel 'committed' to the war effort and end up be seen as epeen wavers 'LOL we only came over cos you guys were shite' type of thing. You have to aim to influence the larger militia otherwise you just become a very lonely outfit.
The incentive question is a very real issue. How do you get experienced pilots to join up?! (I honestly don't have an answer to this)
I shall think on this some more and see if I come up with anything. o7 That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
48
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 03:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
I doubt theres a huge difference in quality of noob that joins either militia. What happens to them once they join, however, is where the problems arise. Less garbage in garbage out, and more average pilot goes in, garbage happens to him, and the end product is a calmill foot soldier.
For the last 6 months all the major groups in cal have done is blob the **** out of every fight that they can. You could, solo, run three plexes in Innia before 12 calmill would show up on short to your fourth plex. This would happen at every state of vulnerability (stable, 10%, whatever.) How does one get better playing like that, or force the pilots in their corp to actually learn from their daily activities? The system isn't under threat, heres a chance to learn something in pvp, so you horrifically blob? It's just so stupid and self defeating.
The worst part of it is at the head of the blob will usually be one or more of calmills more senior players (CEO, FC, vet) clearly encouraging this type of crap. This is why your TZ coverage is so crap when it comes to system pushes. You simply can't muster 10v1 odds 24/7 so at different intervals during the day there will be 1-2 gallente plexing up a storm while 6-7 WT stay docked, because ****... if you lost 1 ship fighting gall 12v1 imagine what would happen 2v7? Better to wait for *that* FC that lead you to crushing glory in your previous 20v1 during prime TZ.
Its to the point where in the last 24 hours I've killed three Templis (Calmills oldest/strongest?) players that were trying to farm with stabs fitted. These are not farming alts of some scrub, these were the main combat toons in the main ******* caldari alliance. Why is that tolerated by corp/alliance leadership? I tried to run a small yesterday in an incursus, calmill rocked up with 11 people in mostly dessies, fine, I get a deimos, so they reship into primarily cruisers with an Ishtar and Cane in tow.....
What the actual **** is wrong with you people? You will never hold a system raising your pilots like this. As Will said, gall is grassroots so anyone with a pulse can FC us, if the fleet even has an FC, calmill is some form of top heavy gargantuan that crushes any initiative new recruits have. It is sad to see tbh.
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Ayuren Aakiwa
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Heiian Conglomerate
102
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 04:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
The main issue imo within calmil is that there are to many egotistical asses who refuse to listen to any form of advice. In the past 2-3 months I have seen a lot of "my way or the highway" type thinking and that's very toxic. Although there is hope even though many corps/fc's/whatever have left recently, i think the calmil is in a decent state currently. Assuming no silly drama arises there is potential in this militia. The biggest hurdle will probably be turning this into this and of course keeping the egos at bay and actually being able to cooperate with each other like normal humans. Street Rules ***** idgaf |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
252
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 04:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:In b4 lock for ranting.
Mate you proposed the same thing last time and got a clear response pretty much saying that no Gal group would defect to Calmil.
You have a point around the respective skill levels but if no one wants to move you are just repeating your original rant. Think of another solution that doesn't involve them defecting.
If you really want to make Calmil into a formidable force there is really only one way to do it.
Start up a small corp of 'good' player you know and slowly build them up. Ignoring the general militia and only bringing on players who match your standards/ideals.
This would make your group the 'elite' group for caldari and give the newer players something to role model off. Simple really. If you try to FC the whole militia then you are just biting off more than you can chew. But getting a decent corp, one that doesn't wave their epeens around and act like douches while giving good fights and showing lesser players how to do it properly is the only way to start changing the 'culture' of Calmil. Then at some point in the future you would hopefully get some offshoots from your corp or copycats wanting to emulate your successes/reputation etc.
THAT is how you change Calmil not just asking people to defect and mess with relationships/standing etc that they may have spend years building up. It is a culture change that require great effort to push through. And tbh it is probably one of the hardest things to do to any group especially one as fragmented as the militias.
This has been done before. It was called Wolfsbrigade and then Happy Endings. QCATS is recruiting:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3896299 |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
719
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 04:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
8/10 because Wil is trolling everyone and people don't know it. High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
Combatevolved
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 04:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:8/10 because Wil is trolling everyone and people don't know it.
We know this, but its a legit thread because it's true. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
948
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 05:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Combatevolved wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:8/10 because Wil is trolling everyone and people don't know it. We know this, but its a legit thread because it's true.
And I'm fed up with looking at spread sheets at work! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1100
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 05:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:
Its to the point where in the last 24 hours I've killed three Templis (Calmills oldest/strongest?) players that were trying to farm with stabs fitted. These are not farming alts of some scrub, these were the main combat toons in the main ******* caldari alliance. Why is that tolerated by corp/alliance leadership?
I agree that it is a crap situation when this is happening.
But: SoTF, Spiritus Draconis and some JUSTK pilots are doing it too.
You don't notice Caldari doing it because you are only engaging Caldari. The problem exists equally on both sides.
You need many Gallente Corps to take good look in the mirror too.
Docked since 2009. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
948
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 05:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have been contemplating coming back to Calmil and actively running my corp and making them into a killing machine.
There is however one big flaw with that plan.
I am in AU TZ and Laney has already 'acquired' the best AU based ppl so there is bugger all left for me to hire!!
Well that and the fact that I'm shite as well! That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 05:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:
But: SoTF, Spiritus Draconis and some JUSTK pilots are doing it too.
we may have gen militia alts with stabs idk but Jason and me would have a breakdown if mains were caught and killed with stabs
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 05:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
wilgotna wrote: furthermore, 40 sheeps lead by a wolf commander still lose to 40 wolves lead by anyone with a pulse (im looking at you guiynan).
First an attack on yamcha now guiynan hmmmm did someone from spdr touch you ??????
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 05:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:wilgotna wrote: furthermore, 40 sheeps lead by a wolf commander still lose to 40 wolves lead by anyone with a pulse (im looking at you guiynan).
First an attack on yamcha now guiynan hmmmm did someone from spdr touch you ?????? calm down son |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 06:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:wilgotna wrote: furthermore, 40 sheeps lead by a wolf commander still lose to 40 wolves lead by anyone with a pulse (im looking at you guiynan).
First an attack on yamcha now guiynan hmmmm did someone from spdr touch you ?????? calm down son
Lol after 2 attacks and 2 rage threads its you who should calm down i think
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
720
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 06:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote:
Its to the point where in the last 24 hours I've killed three Templis (Calmills oldest/strongest?) players that were trying to farm with stabs fitted. These are not farming alts of some scrub, these were the main combat toons in the main ******* caldari alliance. Why is that tolerated by corp/alliance leadership?
I agree that it is a crap situation when this is happening. But: SoTF, Spiritus Draconis and some JUSTK pilots are doing it too. You don't notice Caldari doing it because you are only engaging Caldari. The problem exists equally on both sides. You need many Gallente Corps to take good look in the mirror too.
We probably do it too. But at least most of us know when to ship into T2 hulls. I seriously doubt most of those guys know what a T2 hull looks like. I think Yuri is just annoyed, that after one year of fighting them, they never seem to grow beyond the t1/derp/blobbing/stabbed mindset. I used to get annoyed but I got over it and realized there is a pvp life beyond fighting Caldari. It's why I chuckle at Wil's thread because whether Caldari grow or shrink is irrelevant to me. There are other groups to fight.
High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
188
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
I like opportunities for Ezwal to show how much of a stud he is. QCATS is Recruiting: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
19
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Posted - 2014.04.15 07:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
JAF Anders wrote:I like opportunities for Ezwal to show how much of a stud he is. it would be nice if the mods would remove troll posts such as yours so discussion can continue uninhibited. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
740
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 09:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
op just lack basic knowledge about fw mechanics. |
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor Monkeys with Guns.
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 09:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
will do logistics for Caldari...
2 plex a month... |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1148
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 10:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thread locked as reopening locked threads is prohibited. If you do not agree with the initial locking , please feel free to read the CCP policies and follow the procedure found under the header 'Complaints'.
The Rules: 25. Re-opening locked topics is prohibited.
Recreating or re-opening a thread that has been closed by a moderator is prohibited. Threads that have been closed by a moderator have been closed for the benefit of the community. Re-opening a locked thread will result in its removal. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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