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Dalyn Arathon
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Posted - 2006.05.16 19:43:00 -
[1]
I'm betting that by the time you read this, you'll probably have read the news article about Blaque's speech in Huermont.
Fourteen thousand Gallente died in the attack. Step back for a second, and consider this: If the Gallente had not started the war, none of their citizens would ever have died. If they had not killed the hundreds of thousands of people on Cadari Prime, we would never have attacked their own homeworld. They speak of sacrifice, but what would they know, as their rats' paws scuttrer across our shattered world? They claim to be the great humanitarians. Where was their humanity when Caldari Prime burned? Let them give us back our dead, and on that day will the fault of the dead of Huermont belong to anyone but the Gallente themselves.
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Vendrin
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Posted - 2006.05.16 19:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Vendrin on 16/05/2006 19:52:16
While I respect your enthusiasm and your patriotism Mr. Arathon, the Caldari were the first to start the chain of events leading to the Admiral's valiant last act. Caldari destroyed the underwater city of Nouvelle Reouner killing thousands, and while the bombardment on Caldari Prime killed many, many more and was not an appropriate response, the cause of the war lies on both sides in the end.
Still, by bombarding Caldari Prime, the Gallente showed who did the worst of the actions, and who was in the right in this war.
_____________________________________
Need help in Caldari Space? Join channel CCDF to give or recieve it.
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Shemar
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Posted - 2006.05.16 19:51:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Shemar on 16/05/2006 19:51:53
 Originally by: Dalyn Arathon
Where was their humanity when Caldari Prime burned? Let them give us back our dead, and on that day will the fault of the dead of Huermont belong to anyone but the Gallente themselves.
It was the Caldari that were the first to mass murder innocent civilians in Nouvelle Rouvenor. Over half a million, according to my historical references. Selective memory appears to be a genetic trait of the Caldari. 
Edit: As I was sending this message at the same time as Vendrin, I am forced to amend. Not all Caldari. Apologies.
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Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision |
Fergus MacGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.16 20:14:00 -
[4]
I personally took the time to visit the speeches, and that man certainly knows how to hold the crowd's interest. I wouldn't be surprised if he was merely bringing into the spotlight the opinions of the millions there, rather than inciting them to take those positions, from the reactions and discussions I saw and heard afterwards. |
Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2006.05.16 20:23:00 -
[5]
People do funny things when backed into a corner. Blockading the whole planet and expecting the Caldari to just sit there and take it was foolish. But then again, so is drowning a city.
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CEO of TKI
Public Channel: TKI-Net
http://s14.invisionfree.com/Tsuroki |
Able Citizen
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Posted - 2006.05.16 21:06:00 -
[6]
Brother Dalyn,
I would highlight the fact that the elites that exist in BOTH of our race's governments have more in common with each other than they do with the individuals that they are supposed to represent.
Witness the polemic, partisan remarks of Senator Audrey Rairix as she attempts to stir up political dissent against Senator Blaque. Meanwhile, she and the Senator she accuses share the same table at mealtime, I'm sure, while you and I fight across nationalistic fervor to subdue each other.
Those devils that sit in the seats of power in the Federation know nothing of sacrifice and pride in one's country until they have lived the lives that we have lived, brother.
/me shakes fist
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2006.05.16 21:18:00 -
[7]
To the end of my days, I will never cease to be astounded by how quickly and easily some people can compare the brash and foolish actions of a few guerillas (as tragic as the outcome might be) to the cold and calculated plan of genocide that a planetary government concocted as a response to teh actions of these few men and women.
There is a difference between the fevered decisions of overzealous murderers and governmental policy dictated in safety, behind closed doors, and on a senate floor.
In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU. |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.17 01:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shemar
Selective memory appears to be a genetic trait of the Caldari.
There's enough irony in that statement to fill my railgun clips.
maybe you wouldn't mind having your world blockaded and your people made to suffer. Be sure to let me know what you think of it when Blaque starts a war with the Caldari, and we cleave a path through your decrept and decaying Federation.
Provided you don't wear yourselves out keeping the Intaki under your boot.
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Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2006.05.17 01:50:00 -
[9]
The only hypocrisy I see is in the Caldari who seek to criticize the Federation for recognizing the tragedy that befell the citizens and soldiers who died as a result of Admiral Yakia Tovil-Toba's suicide rampage into the city of Hueromont, and yet hold ceremonies at Caldari Prime for their own in a similar fashion. This blatant narrow-mindedness and selfish bigotry is precisely why I can't help but agree now more than ever with Mr. Blaque's advice to Gallentean citizens to, "continue engaging in meaningful dialogue about our Federation and the citizenĘs duty to saf3guard his homeland."
Federation citizens need to open their eyes and recognize the dangers prevalent in today's uncertain climate, and mindful of the dangers that threaten the nation not only from external threats but those who seek to unravel it from within. I speak for myself when I say I'll "remember the sacrifices given by those who came before".
xoxo
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Tarquin Tarquinius
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Posted - 2006.05.17 03:18:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tarquin Tarquinius on 17/05/2006 03:18:41
I thought Senator Blaque's statements were disrespectful and in very bad taste. It seems that if he wins the election the Federation will be put on a path to war in my opinion.
I think I like the guy. He's got my vote. Or at least he would if I voted.
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The Almighty says this must be a fashionable fight. It's drawn the finest people. - an Amarr Mercenary |
Steiner
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Posted - 2006.05.17 03:38:00 -
[11]
Quote:
It all started when a Gallente exploration ship happened upon one of the hidden Caldari colonies. When the Federation Senate learned of this they demanded a full-scale investigation into the matter and that all hidden Caldari colonies should immediately been put under Federation authority. This was too much for the Caldari Corporations, which were already grumbling over increasing Federation interference into their affairs. For the Caldari it was a simple question of losing their autonomy forever by caving in or making a stand right then and there. They decided to make a stand.
Does that tell us anything?
---
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Shemar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 03:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Steiner
Quote:
It all started when a Gallente exploration ship happened upon one of the hidden Caldari colonies. When the Federation Senate learned of this they demanded a full-scale investigation into the matter and that all hidden Caldari colonies should immediately been put under Federation authority. This was too much for the Caldari Corporations, which were already grumbling over increasing Federation interference into their affairs. For the Caldari it was a simple question of losing their autonomy forever by caving in or making a stand right then and there. They decided to make a stand.
Does that tell us anything?
Yes, that the Caldari sign treaties with one hand while already breaking them with the other.
________________
Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision |
James Duar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 09:29:00 -
[13]
If men like Blaque can win power in elections then I'm going to be getting the hell out of dodge in Empire space before he has time to do anything foolish, and I'd advise patriots on both Gallente and Caldari sides to do the same - bringing with them as many as can be carried. Another war will serve nothing to burn to the ground all that has been accomplished since the last one.
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Camar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 10:02:00 -
[14]
So, the Caldari do not fancy the view of being forced into submission by the Federation and think that massmurder is okey to stop it.
Yet so many loyalist-caldari scream and shout against minmatars doing whatever in their power to inflict damage upon the empire. Yes, I think the word hypocrisy would be a suitable word there as well
A little scenario, say the Amarr manage to reclaim the matari, do you REALLY think they would ally with the Caldari to crush the gallente? Would it not be better to ally yourself with a, as the caldari claims, inferior technology to subdue the caldari first? And THEN with the power of both matari/caldari subdue the gallente.
Humz, perhaps that was longterm thinking. Longterm thinking and quick profit does not very often go hand in hand.
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Elrianmk2
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:05:00 -
[15]
Once again the Caldari show there arrogance and ignorance.
Do you not hold memorials to your "gallante" captain who's suicidal rage destroyed thousands of lives?
Did your CEO's not deliberatly set out to break the ties that bound us as one people, a decision made behind closed doors and in a safe place?
Yet i find myself asking "Why does this rant surprise me?" Could this be because i have worked with some very competent and good Caldari. I keep forgetting that those genocidal idiots out there will seek any opertunities they can find to shed blood. The only difference between these cries of hate and a pirate is that a pirate does not try to claim that he is doing it for the very people who will be slaughtered for thier actions.
Blaque would never get my vote, but given a choice between him and the slaughter of the people of the federation, well i would defend the people of the federation. Once the Cadari violate a treaty that they signed up to i will defend my people. Untill then i will do my best to supply and assist all those who remain civil to my corperation and our interests.
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The only certainties are death and taxes.
Edit: and the nerfing of my pic :/ |
Steiner
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Elrianmk2
I keep forgetting that those genocidal idiots out there will seek any opertunities they can find to shed blood. The only difference between these cries of hate and a pirate is that a pirate does not try to claim that he is doing it for the very people who will be slaughtered for thier actions.
That indeed describes the Federation at that time.
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Steiner
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:54:00 -
[17]
and just because I love quoting.
Quote:
In the end the Gallente population on the planet had to pay the price for the FederationĘs indecisiveness.
Quote:
[Nouvelle Rouvenor] the Federation retaliated at once by sending an invasion force down to Caldari Prime and began a systematic orbital bombardment of the planet.
Maybe they should have acted sooner to prevent this accident. But then the world wouldn't be the same.
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Zevrik
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Posted - 2006.05.17 14:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
The only hypocrisy I see is in the Caldari who seek to criticize the Federation for recognizing the tragedy that befell the citizens and soldiers who died as a result of Admiral Yakia Tovil-Toba's suicide rampage into the city of Hueromont, and yet hold ceremonies at Caldari Prime for their own in a similar fashion.
We hold the ceremony at Caldari Prime to honor those that had fallen, nothing else. Your Senator didn't visit Hueromont to have a picnic, he used the tragedy as a political maneuver to gain popularity for the election, a move that shows no respect for the brave warriors that had fallen.
Do not compare your Senator's circus act with a solemn ceremony where we hail those who haved served the state of old.
--
Commander Zevrik
Fleet Operations, C.N.S. Letalis
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Eve on Linux |
Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2006.05.17 14:53:00 -
[19]
Now who's being naive?
The originator of this discussion is suggesting we aren't allowed to mourn our dead because we deserved it.
If there are enough of these bigots wandering about the State, then Blaque was right to bring this attention to the citizens of the Federation. The people are trying to move on yet every step taken the Caldari make issue of the past, and now that we take notice we're being insensitive for recognizing those lost at Hueromont.
Quite frankly, I'm tired of tip-toeing around the subject and I'm glad someone has the guts to stand up and remind the nation of the sacrifices it's made. If that makes you uncomfortable, remind yourselves why war is such a horrible avenue to pursue next time you start rattling your sabres crying for revenge.
It's about time the nations citizens sat upright and remember[ed] the sacrifices given by those who came before.
-Kaleigh
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Exioce
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Posted - 2006.05.17 15:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zevrik
Do not compare your Senator's circus act with a solemn ceremony where we hail those who haved served the state of old.
yes, because you Caldari are such an honest and honourable race - that whole keeping colonies secret from a Federation you were members of must just be an imagining of ours
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Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 15:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle
The only hypocrisy I see is in the Caldari who seek to criticize the Federation for recognizing the tragedy that befell the citizens and soldiers who died as a result of Admiral Yakia Tovil-Toba's suicide rampage into the city of Hueromont, and yet hold ceremonies at Caldari Prime for their own in a similar fashion. This blatant narrow-mindedness and selfish bigotry is precisely why I can't help but agree now more than ever with Mr. Blaque's advice to Gallentean citizens to, "continue engaging in meaningful dialogue about our Federation and the citizenĘs duty to saf3guard his homeland."
Federation citizens need to open their eyes and recognize the dangers prevalent in today's uncertain climate, and mindful of the dangers that threaten the nation not only from external threats but those who seek to unravel it from within. I speak for myself when I say I'll "remember the sacrifices given by those who came before".
xoxo
Since you wern't there and I was the arranger of said event, I'll just fill you in on the detail that it was for everyone who died but primarily for our forebearers that died to defend our sovreignty.
------------------
CEO of TKI
Public Channel: TKI-Net
http://s14.invisionfree.com/Tsuroki |
Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2006.05.17 16:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar
Since you wern't there and I was the arranger of said event, I'll just fill you in on the detail that it was for everyone who died but primarily for our forebearers that died to defend our sovreignty.
And there are many, including within the government who feel it was nothing more than a rallying point for renewed violence and hatred against the Federation, despite efforts to soothe the already turbulent political climate with the State.
Mr. Blaque's speech was addressing the public in remembering the victims of Admiral Yakia Tovil-Toba's suicide assault on the residents of Hueromont, and reminding the Federation of events that shaped its past. Regardless of whether individuals see it as a political circus or not is entirely irrelevant to the originator of this discussion as supposedly we they don't deserve rememberance at all.
It's this kind of hypocritcal behavior that engenders further disparragement between our people and will continue to do so if such individuals are allowed to spread their bigotry.
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Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 16:25:00 -
[23]
If I recall correctly, we had so much harrastment from the Gallente in system that we had to switch to a private channel. Not to mention the Coreli fleet, who was in Cyrene at the time, Armed to the teeth. If anyone was pushing hatred and bigotry, it was the Luminaire locals.
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CEO of TKI
Public Channel: TKI-Net
http://s14.invisionfree.com/Tsuroki |
Beringe
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Posted - 2006.05.17 17:11:00 -
[24]
The only foolishness I see is tearing up these almost two hundred year old wounds for political gain.
This goes for all of you throwing snide comments at each other in this thread.
I don't know what Mr. Blaque thinks he is going to gain from this, but it certainly isn't a cordial relationship with the Caldari State.
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"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Unuthiel
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Posted - 2006.05.17 18:09:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Unuthiel on 17/05/2006 18:12:53
Originally by: Exioce
Originally by: Zevrik
Do not compare your Senator's circus act with a solemn ceremony where we hail those who haved served the state of old.
yes, because you Caldari are such an honest and honourable race - that whole keeping colonies secret from a Federation you were members of must just be an imagining of ours
Try again. The colonies in question were begun about 300 years before the Caldari were members of your Federation. Why should they turn over colonies the Gallente had absolutely nothing to do with in any way, shape, or form?
Quote:
Shortly after jump gate technology was jointly discovered by the Gallenteans and the Caldari some three hundred years before the Federation formed, the Caldari Corporations had started their own inter-stellar surveying and colonization, separate from those conducted by the Gallenteans. It was these colonies, kept as a secret from the Gallenteans, that became the source of friction between the Gallenteans and the Caldari, culminating in the latterĘs defection from the Federation and an ensuing war between the two races.
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2006.05.17 20:10:00 -
[26]
What seems often forgotten in the finger pointing is that the attack on Nouvelle Reouner was perpetrated by extremists, not elements of any Caldari government. It was just used as an excuse for the later Gallente atrocities. Its akin to blaming the Gallente because pirates infest Placid. Should everyone who loses a ship there declare war on the federation for 'killing' thier crewmen? It's absurd.
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Director.
GLS Mr. State
Caldari Patriot.
Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
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Shemar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 21:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Silver Night
The act of a few terrorists is not a good excuse to commit genocide.
I would love to accept that as the dominant Caldari attitude towards the tragic event, however some of the more prominent Caldari paramilitaries have recently called the same men you call 'terrorists', 'heroes'.
I am sure you understand why with such conflicting attitudes resonating from the Caldari side many of us citizens of the Federation would rather err on the side of caution and assume the worst.
After all, it is common practice with Caldari rhetoric to blame the Gellente population for the orbital bombardment of Caldari Prime and not the fascist government that the population themselves overthrew, so you shouldn't be surpised to find Gallente assuming that most Caldari not only approve of the "Nouvelle Reouner" incident, but are likely to want to see it repeated.
________________
Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision |
Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2006.05.17 22:24:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 17/05/2006 22:24:33
Originally by: Shemar
Originally by: Silver Night
The act of a few terrorists is not a good excuse to commit genocide.
I would love to accept that as the dominant Caldari attitude towards the tragic event, however some of the more prominent Caldari paramilitaries have recently called the same men you call 'terrorists', 'heroes'.
I am sure you understand why with such conflicting attitudes resonating from the Caldari side many of us citizens of the Federation would rather err on the side of caution and assume the worst.
After all, it is common practice with Caldari rhetoric to blame the Gellente population for the orbital bombardment of Caldari Prime and not the fascist government that the population themselves overthrew, so you shouldn't be surpised to find Gallente assuming that most Caldari not only approve of the "Nouvelle Reouner" incident, but are likely to want to see it repeated.
The difference was that they were elected to those positions BY the Gallente population. The ones who destroyed Nouvelle Reouner were people operating without any authority from any Caldari government body. Besides, the only reason they were overthrown was because of the massive losses and the Hueromont Incident changeing the public opinion against them. They were only thrown out because they were loosing the war.
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CEO of TKI
Public Channel: TKI-Net
http://s14.invisionfree.com/Tsuroki |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.18 01:30:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 18/05/2006 01:34:20
Originally by: Elrianmk2
Once again the Caldari show there arrogance and ignorance.
...
Did your CEO's not deliberatly set out to break the ties that bound us as one people, a decision made behind closed doors and in a safe place?
Yes, the CEOs decided they'd had enough of the bull**** treatment the Gallente were giving them, and when the Federation found out we had other colonies, they realized they lost their grip on us, blockaded Caldari Prime, causing millions, if not billions to suffer, and provoking the reaction of a Carrier being dropped on a city of yours, which met the reaction of a well-planned orbital bombardment killing far more than your 'tragedy'.
The colonies had nothing to do with your Federation, other than the fact that your people's reaction to their discovery only proved that your government wants to try to rule over the Caldari.
The Gallente idea of 'equality' is all Gallente get to be on top, and anyone else can serve them.
Your Federation can kiss my ass, as can your presidental hopeful. He will be the death of your Federation, something long overdue.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.18 01:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shemar
After all, it is common practice with Caldari rhetoric to blame the Gellente population for the orbital bombardment of Caldari Prime and not the fascist government that the population themselves overthrew, so you shouldn't be surpised to find Gallente assuming that most Caldari not only approve of the "Nouvelle Reouner" incident, but are likely to want to see it repeated.
Your leaders are a reflection of your people, or are you telling me the lections in the Federation as as big a joke as so many other aspects of it?
If a war-morgerer like Blaque is made your leader, you Gallente will haven shown the rest of the cluster just what kind of people you are, and that you can forget your own history, despite the absurd comments people like yourself make.
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