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The WCS Fix

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Leshrac Shepherd	Posted - 2006.05.17 22:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Stamm WCS are one item that can be used to somewhat counter blob tactics. The problem is that they encourage blob tactics rather than countering them. ---------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.17 22:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Eximius Josari I was not the first to have this idea...tho its been so long I might have. But the way to fix WCS is to simply...change them to hi slot mods. Problem Solved. dumb fix it hurts industrials - which iwho are the only ships that should be fitting them in the first place... please close this thread - and honestly it have not been so long since the last person to 'have this idea'... __ Weirda Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
Foulis	Posted - 2006.05.17 23:42:00 - [33] Or how about we remove WCS entirely, and make Webs and Scrams dependent on the propulsion strength of the target like with jammers? This makes sense to me, but I could be dumb. Really, I don't care either way, I just think the above is more practical. ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
Jacinto Naysmith	Posted - 2006.05.18 00:07:00 - [34] Ugh not this again. I thought we had reached consensus that warp core stabs were perfectly fine as is? Theres already counters: 2 point scramblers, interdictors, warp bubbles. Theres already a penalty: by equipping a WCS you cant equip a damage mod or tanking mod. ---
Dynast	Posted - 2006.05.18 00:12:00 - [35] The best WCS fix: Accept that you don't deserve to kill something every time you engage in battle, and that people can fit for travel or hit & run combat. Further, accept that this is not counterstrike, and that the nature of space combat allows a great deal more leeway in terms of combat avoidance and disengagement than do arcade games and first person shooters.
Mr Filth	Posted - 2006.05.18 01:10:00 - [36] My solution: When a WCS is fitted, you wont be able to activate any aggressive modules. This way, pvpers will fit their ship entirely for combat and industrials can use them for travelling, be it a hauler or BS - a win win solution :)
P0ke	Posted - 2006.05.18 03:58:00 - [37] Leave as they are. If someone doesn't want to be caught, you probably won't catch them. Interdicter spheres still catch people who are stabbed up. Mobile disruptors still catch people who are stabbed up. The tools are there. Train to use them and stop whining.
Phaese	Posted - 2006.05.18 05:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Foulis Or how about we remove WCS entirely, and make Webs and Scrams dependent on the propulsion strength of the target like with jammers? This makes sense to me, but I could be dumb. Really, I don't care either way, I just think the above is more practical. That's a start to a viable idea, I think. Except change WCSs to an item that would improve propulsion strength. And as I type this I realize it doesn't really accoplish much for the problem at hand... Personally, I think they're fine. People act like using WCSs is a mortal sin; they're just another mod, and they really do cripple a ship if it's fighting something that it can't just gank. One of the best suggestions I've seen so far is to describe WCSs as modules that "reduce the effectiveness of warp interfearance fields arround the ship" or something to that effect; they would give both the +1 to warp strength like they do now, but they would also give a -1 to outgoing jammers (thus, 20k scrams would do nothing and 7.5k would do 1 point).
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2006.05.18 05:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Eximius Josari I was not the first to have this idea...tho its been so long I might have. But the way to fix WCS is to simply...change them to hi slot mods. Problem Solved. you think you are smart or what ? I want to NPC AND get away from pirates (I know there are other options for this, but wcs is simple and easy)... high slots do not cut with this ... as was mentioned, industrials. ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.18 05:49:00 - [40] People really do not seem to understand the risk vs reward concept. ~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.05.18 08:29:00 - [41] Originally by: Eximius Josari And forces people to gimp hi slots in order to run away. Which should be the case for any module that powerful. "That powerful"? Yeah sure, make scramblers high-slot too then, and have only strength 1 scramblers. There is no WCS problem. Just because you want to doesn't mean you SHOULD be able to stop everyone from running when they don't want to fight.
Hohenheim OfLight	Posted - 2006.05.18 08:32:00 - [42] WCS are fine what we really need is tec2 scrams ----------------------------------------------
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.18 08:42:00 - [43] Originally by: 000Hunter000 hm wait a minute... isn't there a counter to wcs allready? oh yes!!! WC scramblers!!! OMG WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS SOONER!!!111ONE!!!... Wonder why people are screaming to have them nerfed now anyways? never seemed to be a problem the first 2 years.. What? it's too hard to catch indies in low sec these days cuz the pilots suddenly became smart enough to fit a couple a stabbies? riiiiightoooooo wcs are lowslotmodules, most ships have more of them. they dont need cap, scramblers do. with a scrambler u need to get within range. fast. so u need to sacrifice another med for a mwd/ab. up the cpu need significantly. problem solved. --------------------------------
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.18 08:53:00 - [44] Originally by: Tehyarec Originally by: Eximius Josari And forces people to gimp hi slots in order to run away. Which should be the case for any module that powerful. "That powerful"? Yeah sure, make scramblers high-slot too then, and have only strength 1 scramblers. Sounds good to me. I've already said all offensive modules should be hi slot. Quote: There is no WCS problem. Of course not. Quote: Just because you want to doesn't mean you SHOULD be able to stop everyone from running when they don't want to fight. I don't use scramblers either way, so WCS doesn't really change anything in my fights. ~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2006.05.18 08:57:00 - [45] WCS problem can be solved so simply.. Give WCS aggility penalty... It will make warpaways slower... it will make stabbed vagas slower.. But still give the function of immunity to warp scrambling... so simple yet so elegant.. this was also suggested some time ago, yet ppl still talking about high slot, and clomplex solutions... - POST WITH YOUR MAIN! New sig coming soon... This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the DICE Corporation.
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2006.05.18 09:01:00 - [46] Originally by: Balazs Simon WCS problem can be solved so simply.. Give WCS aggility penalty... It will make warpaways slower... it will make stabbed vagas slower.. But still give the function of immunity to warp scrambling... so simple yet so elegant.. this was also suggested some time ago, yet ppl still talking about high slot, and clomplex solutions... yeah that's briliant, industrials warp so fast they'll notice no agility decrese that much right ? so I can't aither fit enouhg (wcs > high slot) or warp away too slow and be shot down anyway (wcs > agility nerf). ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well
Cordt	Posted - 2006.05.18 09:33:00 - [47] Jesus, there is no WCS problem. Shut the **** up already.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.18 09:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Cordt Jesus, there is no WCS problem. Shut the **** up already. And who are you to come into my thread with such rude behaviour? ~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2006.05.18 09:52:00 - [49] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Balazs Simon WCS problem can be solved so simply.. Give WCS aggility penalty... It will make warpaways slower... it will make stabbed vagas slower.. But still give the function of immunity to warp scrambling... so simple yet so elegant.. this was also suggested some time ago, yet ppl still talking about high slot, and clomplex solutions... yeah that's briliant, industrials warp so fast they'll notice no agility decrese that much right ? so I can't aither fit enouhg (wcs > high slot) or warp away too slow and be shot down anyway (wcs > agility nerf). Industrials can have a bonust to decrease this penalty no ? The problem is not with wcs-ed haullers. The problem is WCS-ed combat ships. - POST WITH YOUR MAIN! New sig coming soon... This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the DICE Corporation.
Hugh Ruka	Posted - 2006.05.18 09:56:00 - [50] Originally by: Balazs Simon Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Balazs Simon WCS problem can be solved so simply.. Give WCS aggility penalty... It will make warpaways slower... it will make stabbed vagas slower.. But still give the function of immunity to warp scrambling... so simple yet so elegant.. this was also suggested some time ago, yet ppl still talking about high slot, and clomplex solutions... yeah that's briliant, industrials warp so fast they'll notice no agility decrese that much right ? so I can't aither fit enouhg (wcs > high slot) or warp away too slow and be shot down anyway (wcs > agility nerf). Industrials can have a bonust to decrease this penalty no ? The problem is not with wcs-ed haullers. The problem is WCS-ed combat ships. it's the scramblers that are the problem ... without scramblers, nobody will fit wcs ... nerf the scramblers and problem solved :-]]] anyway wcs change will severely nerf hit and run attacks close range ... so even more t2 sniping on the way ... consider that... ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well
Theydin Fin	Posted - 2006.05.18 09:59:00 - [51] Edited by: Theydin Fin on 18/05/2006 09:59:56 cant understand why this is such an issue. and if so why not make a simple solution. limit the wcs so that only one can be used at any time. so a normal wcs give +1 a t2 gives +2. at the sime time you also want to limit scramblers to one aswell (with their +1 or +2 strenght). that way you will most of the times be safe with one wcs unless the agressor nerf his range to get +2 strenght in wich case youll have a need for t2 wcs. in other cases youll need team effort to scramble someone. this will also make the blockade runners more of what they are since the have inherent +3 wcs. blocking a blockaderunner will than actually need a blockade! easy problem solved. may i hunt down cowardous pirates now? rubbing hands
Cordt	Posted - 2006.05.18 10:30:00 - [52] Edited by: Cordt on 18/05/2006 10:32:05 Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Cordt Jesus, there is no WCS problem. Shut the ** up already. And who are you to come into my thread with such rude behaviour? I'm sorry, let me rephrase for virgin ears (eyes? whatever). I have yet to see anybody but forum queens with something to prove by being heard post about the horrors wrought upon them by their foes using warpcore stabs. Do I like them? No. Do I use them? No. Do we need a new goddamned thread every day on the forums restating the same thing we've all begrudgingly read yesterday, the day before, and the day before that? No. Warpcore stabilizers are not unbalanced in any notable way, shape or form. Ask anybody who spends more time ingame than on the forums, actually PVPing. Spend some time as a belt pirate, where a majority of your targets will be stabbed to the goddamned hilt, then form your opinions. They are a minor annoyance, nothing more, and the annoyance is easily removed by adding a couple more points of warp disruption. "Oh, boo hoo, mister, I can't add another warp scrambler onto my ship and I don't have any friends :(." Well make some. This is an MMORPG. Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game. That means you probably should not be able to experience all the things this game has to offer alone. Go make some friends, scramble the stabbing problem-ship with them, and blow it up because his setup is so massively gimped. There is no WCS problem, thus, problem solved. EDIT: I'd like to add that I don't mean to push all this hostility upon you personally. There's a million *****s making these posts every day, and the 'solution' to the nonexistent problem that you posted has been posted hundreds of times before. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Stamm	Posted - 2006.05.18 11:23:00 - [53] I'd like someone to actually define the problem. Is it - People can fit warp core stabs and my poorly fitted stabber can't get them? Is it - By just turning up in a belt I should get a kill? Is it - I'm so completely inept when gatecamping that everybody makes it out and I want kills? Is it - Every time a ship goes into combat it should either kill the opponent or be killed? Is it - Currently fitting warp core stabs doesn't have enough of an adverse effect on the CPU/GRID/SLOT resources a ship has? Is it - I've never left empire, but it's kewl to bash stabs LOL? Is it - I'm a grubby little pirate that fits nothing but tech 1 gear in an insured cruiser, I don't need any source of income so I don't want anybody to have any protection? Come on, define the problem.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.05.18 11:27:00 - [54] Do not fit WCS if you think they're lame. And you should stay away from scramblers, as the WCS counters them in the first place. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Sara Finn	Posted - 2006.05.18 11:32:00 - [55] Great idea! Next step would be to make every hauler and miner completely invulnerable. Or make griefing tactics and camping a capital offense. Then it would be balanced. Seriously, I can tell you've never mined or used an industrial in your life. When you cannot defend yourself, running is your only option (and it doesn't make you a coward, only alive). And that's a truth whether you're alone or have a fleet of other ships backing you up. I've stated it once in one of these 'fix WCS' threads, and I'm doing it again, unfortunately. All PvP'ers have to wipe the blood and guts from their eyes, lose the battle-frenzy tunnel vision, and propose changes that don't totally gimp all the other people that play this game.
B orange	Posted - 2006.05.18 12:00:00 - [56] Stabs should gimp your targeting speed.. like 50%-60% each. You want to run? Good, just do it and don't look back. But if you want to fight while stabbed that's another story.
Sniper FC	Posted - 2006.05.18 12:37:00 - [57] Ok here is a GOOD idea Or i think it is! Have WCS work like hardners! Each ship has a warp strength of say between 0.0 and 1, and a wcs gives that a boost by a percentage, but with the same stacking deal as other mods, oh and have skills to boost it too, like rank3-4 or sumit then do a similar thing to scrams give them a basic strength that can be boosted by either low slot mods OR skills, or change them to diff strength. This idea would bring wcs in line with other aspects of eve as well as letting ppl that really want to use them, have to train them up and spend SP on them, making ppl look at other ways. or if u wanna be arsey and u REALLY hate WCS treat them like drones for every lvl of said skill u can use one more!!! U can then get faction WCS that have higher boost same as faction scrams that have higher start value etc.... Learn from what CCP have done in the past, if something is just not working they dont put in stupid little fixes like changing slots, or some other dumb ass controversal point. They make keep it there just make it more involved and make u work hard to have that advantage e.g. Drone, Missiles, etc... ----------------------------------------------- Want to join a fun corp that do most things in eve Join "suicidal" channel and have a chat
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.18 13:01:00 - [58] Originally by: B orange Stabs should gimp your targeting speed.. like 50%-60% each. You want to run? Good, just do it and don't look back. But if you want to fight while stabbed that's another story. And a lot of people wouldn't. Fight, that is. Less fights, less fun. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.18 13:11:00 - [59] Originally by: Balazs Simon WCS problem can be solved so simply.. Give WCS aggility penalty... It will make warpaways slower... it will make stabbed vagas slower.. But still give the function of immunity to warp scrambling... so simple yet so elegant.. this was also suggested some time ago, yet ppl still talking about high slot, and clomplex solutions... This fix would destroy any functionality WCS have whatsoever, and make people fit tons of nanofibers for travel setups instead. If you run into a gatecamp, warping fast, not WCS is what saves you. With your "fix", WCS would be counter productive in most cases. WCS DO NOT GIVE SCRAMBLER IMMUNITY. WCS are for shrugging off that inty that got into range before you could warp, you can't go "lolol i haev stabs owned kthx" at a 10 man gatecamp. You want to get the **** out asap, and WCS gives you a wider room for error. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Felicia Stone	Posted - 2006.05.18 14:34:00 - [60] Simple really, Leave WCS the way they are (perhaps make them a bit harder to fit) and simply make interdiction spheres actually work properly. It really gets on my nerves to see a bubble dropped on a slow to align fleet only to see them warp away anyway because they already had 'warp drive active'. If you're in a bubble you should stay there.

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