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Tristrina
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Posted - 2006.05.18 06:58:00 -
[1]
At this point in time, i'm at the point where i need to make the decision to train Caldari BS or Amarr BS to level V. Whenever i ask the people in my corp about which i should train, the answer always seems to be: Gallente. Is the gallente carrier so overpowered that i should switch races and train up gallente battleship? And if this is not the case, should i train Caldari or Amarr. If you wish you can take into account the dreadnaught of the race you suggest.
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Chewan Mesa
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:00:00 -
[2]
Hhmm the gallente carrier has the best bonus for how carriers are used atm.
However with everything overpowered it might change over time, how about you just train for the Carrier you like the most? Do you like flying Caldari battleships? Or more amarrians?
I would never switch my complete focus because something is overpowered right now.
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Morrigan Starlover
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:13:00 -
[3]
On most ships I would fight and say no they specialize in a different weapon system or something, but I agree on this.
Its a carrier. They fight with drones and fighters. Its their only damage system, they should all get the same bonus.
That 5% resistances and shield/armor transfer times is just CPP scratching their heads not knowing wtf to do.
The carriers and motherships are the ONLY ones where I think the bonuses should be absolutely identical.
Gallente carriers appear to be the only ones worth training for unfortunately. 
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Tristrina
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:33:00 -
[4]
Thats horribly sad that the gallente carrier is the only one worth using. =(
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Rick Dentill
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:40:00 -
[5]
I was going to go for the amarr one anyways.
_______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Chakindra
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:42:00 -
[6]
Take the Amarr. The Revelation - Amarr Dreadnought - is worth the lvl 5 training alone. As for carriers... The Gallente Thanatos is by far the best, but the Amarr Archon comes in second.
Signed,
Chakindra
CEO of Deadzone Innovation Enterprises
Fearless Leader of Ebil Minions
"Competition and fair play are mutually exclusive." |
Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:43:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Abyss Jack on 18/05/2006 07:44:20
 Originally by: Tristrina
Thats horribly sad that the gallente carrier is the only one worth using. =(
Nope its not, depending on what you want to do with it. Gallante carrier have just more damage... and the bonus is only that good if you have carrier and fighter skills on lvl5 tbh
my corpmate is flying chimera with 3/3/3 skills and me too, he's doing near the same damage as my thanatos... so what
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Morrigan Starlover
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:52:00 -
[8]
Its just the fact that carriers are exclusively designed to fight with drones and fighters.
Where an amar cruiser may have a bonus to laser turret attack speed, and a gallente cruiser having more drone damage and capacity, thats fine, everyone understands that.
Applying this same logic to carriers like they did was not well thought out, and the gallente carriers are without a doubt the best. By 50% potentially.
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djenghis jan
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:52:00 -
[9]
it is not clear atm if the damage bones still applies if you assign drones to others. If not one might consider front line use but then bonus is more of a choice for damage or cap/armor/shield. If you have a corpmate also in a carrier it is even more of a question because you can then benefit from the romote energy transfer between carriers. This is a powerfull tool because it allows two capital repair systems to be used without cap drain.
keep in mind that the use of carriers is new and there is a general lack of info on the subject.
i have trained the amarr one myself also because of the dread and only switched to carrier after that..
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.18 08:26:00 -
[10]
Carriers are expensive, surviving 20% longer / tanking 20% better makes a huge difference. On top of that amarr has an extra lowslot.
Imo they are balanced excepet the minnie one that sucks.
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.05.18 08:35:00 -
[11]
yes please fix the minin one but not untill i have baught mine, i dont want the price to sundley shoot up becsue they have some inantive new bous and suddenly become the must have carrier.
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 08:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Abyss Jack
Edited by: Abyss Jack on 18/05/2006 07:44:20
Originally by: Tristrina
Thats horribly sad that the gallente carrier is the only one worth using. =(
Nope its not, depending on what you want to do with it. Gallante carrier have just more damage... and the bonus is only that good if you have carrier and fighter skills on lvl5 tbh
my corpmate is flying chimera with 3/3/3 skills and me too, he's doing near the same damage as my thanatos... so what
erm what? 40% more damage than the other carriers isnt good?? lol...
also how did u calculate damage? u dont get dmg messages from drones. testing on npcs? which types of fighters u used against which npcs if thats the case?
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 08:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Carriers are expensive, surviving 20% longer / tanking 20% better makes a huge difference. On top of that amarr has an extra lowslot.
Imo they are balanced excepet the minnie one that sucks.
if u use it in fleetbattles u are stupid anyways ^^
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2006.05.18 09:04:00 -
[14]
What kind of fleet battles?
I've used mine to tank several bs at one time to utilize its abilities in the aid and offense of other ships and it works. Any ship will go instapoof with 200 peeps shooting it.
Carrier is awesome for tanking small fleets.
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 09:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shaelin Corpius
What kind of fleet battles?
I've used mine to tank several bs at one time to utilize its abilities in the aid and offense of other ships and it works. Any ship will go instapoof with 200 peeps shooting it.
Carrier is awesome for tanking small fleets.
yes in small engagements tahts true. more than 10 bs will cripple u very fast though :(
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Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.05.18 09:36:00 -
[16]
well about npc'ing, most quantitys are cruiser sized ships, so it doesn't matter if you need 2-3 volleys or 2-3 volleys Oo
thanatos will just kickass bs much faster... mmkay n00blouse
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.18 09:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Carriers are expensive, surviving 20% longer / tanking 20% better makes a huge difference. On top of that amarr has an extra lowslot.
Imo they are balanced excepet the minnie one that sucks.
if u use it in fleetbattles u are stupid anyways ^^
Well if used from safespot the minny one is the best since its the only one still using its bonus + something goof to look at rather than staring at some gigantic flat imicus while ur mates are having fun fighting 
In fleet battles carrier r useless but in small engagements I think they are pretty effective - problem is most people dont seem very willing to risk them eheh 
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.05.18 09:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Hhmm the gallente carrier has the best bonus for how carriers are used atm.
However with everything underpowered it might change over time, how about you just train for the Carrier you like the most? Do you like flying Caldari battleships? Or more amarrians?
I would never switch my complete focus because something it's underpowered right now.
Fixed it for you.
Fighter dps is rather pathetic, even coming from a Thanatos. The reason is that no drone skills give bonuses, so at max skills only the Thanatos' fighters do semi-acceptable damage (100dps on non-Thanatos and 150dps on Thanatos per fighter and max skills - roughly translates to 3 months of extra training beyond acceptable skill levels)
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.18 09:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Hhmm the gallente carrier has the best bonus for how carriers are used atm.
However with everything underpowered it might change over time, how about you just train for the Carrier you like the most? Do you like flying Caldari battleships? Or more amarrians?
I would never switch my complete focus because something it's underpowered right now.
Fixed it for you.
Fighter dps is rather pathetic, even coming from a Thanatos. The reason is that no drone skills give bonuses, so at max skills only the Thanatos' fighters do semi-acceptable damage (100dps on non-Thanatos and 150dps on Thanatos per fighter and max skills - roughly translates to 3 months of extra training beyond acceptable skill levels)
so with lvl4 skills you are looking at 700 dps and 1050 for a thanatos right? imo its still decent, only ppl shudnt mistake carriers for some wicked pwnmobile imho
on a side note, what is the dps of 5 ogre IIs with interfaccing skills on a lvl4 moros?
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Rawthorm
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:08:00 -
[20]
The main problem is most people dont get it into their head that the fighter skill does 20% per level. They train to lvl 2 and wonder why thr fighters suck lol.
This huge bonus per skill level leaves a huge gap between the casual and the dedicated carrier pilot and thats how it should be.
To answer the OP tho i'd go with Amarr simply for its tanking.
Capital tanking as a whole is screwed as there is no sub-classes of tanking ability between Carrier/Dread > Mothership > Titan like we have for Frig > Cruiser > Battleship and this is only comounded by the short term nature of a shield tank, so forget caldari IMO.
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Abyss Jack
well about npc'ing, most quantitys are cruiser sized ships, so it doesn't matter if you need 2-3 volleys or 2-3 volleys Oo
thanatos will just kickass bs much faster... mmkay n00blouse
thats not true. it depends where u are npcing. u just havent found out the best spots, Nub Jack.
but as u said, thanatos will "kickass bs much faster" which makes ur statement, that ur mate does same dmg as you totally void.
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
on a side note, what is the dps of 5 ogre IIs with interfaccing skills on a lvl4 moros?
i heard something about 600 dps PER drone in siege mode, though i still cant believe that 
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
on a side note, what is the dps of 5 ogre IIs with interfaccing skills on a lvl4 moros?
i heard something about 600 dps PER drone in siege mode, though i still cant believe that
With max skills you have a DPS of 792 per drone in siege mode, so basicly its 3960 DPS with all 5 Ogres II. In 10 seconds you will do 39600 Damage .
Thats nice damage for sure
For Hammerheads II the value is 396 DPS per drone, total DPS = 1980
For Hobgoblins II the value is 247.5 DPS per drone, total DPS = 1237.5
Summertime - Campingtime!
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:32:00 -
[24]
The Gallente Dread and Carrier are over powered in comparison to the other races, any one that argues different is a noob with no idea what they are talking about.
With that said, without drone augmentation units, the Carriers are severely underpowered full stop. My Tech 2 Neutron Blaster Mega Takes down a bs faster than then My carrier with 8 Fighters (level 3 fighter skill at the moment).
A further 1 months training should see my Carrier be a better BS killer than my Mega, but seriosuly, wtf?
Add to that the stupid Ship Maintenance (checking nav systems) bug, and all in all the carrier is a glorified heavily tanked BS, that cant use jump gates.
Still spend 50% of the time i'm in game in mine though......
KIA Piccys
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:41:00 -
[25]
Omg 3960 dps just with drones? Thats insane :O
But anyway, how about non-siege mode.
Basically I wanna know if a un-sieged moros with 5 ogres II wud outdamage a moros with 9 fighters (just the drones, not considering the guns).
Eddz, if the bonus dont apply to assigned fighters I dont see why thanatos is massively overpowered.
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Omg 3960 dps just with drones? Thats insane :O
But anyway, how about non-siege mode.
Basically I wanna know if a un-sieged moros with 5 ogres II wud outdamage a moros with 9 fighters (just the drones, not considering the guns).
Eddz, if the bonus dont apply to assigned fighters I dont see why thanatos is massively overpowered.
simply divide trhough 5, gobbins-nublet :-P
outdamage a thanatos u mean or? if thats the case i doubt it that carriers do less than 800 dps, but not sure i suck at maths.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2006.05.18 10:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Omg 3960 dps just with drones? Thats insane :O
But anyway, how about non-siege mode.
Basically I wanna know if a un-sieged moros with 5 ogres II wud outdamage a moros with 9 fighters (just the drones, not considering the guns).
Eddz, if the bonus dont apply to assigned fighters I dont see why thanatos is massively overpowered.
If all you do all day is sit at safe and assign your fighters, then you sir are a coward ;)
Mine gets into battle, as often as I can get it there. And there are moments as I watch the BS/Hac target shield/armour drop, that I wish hard I had a thanatos.
5% resistance to damage or 10% damage, that statement alone shows its unfair.
KIA Piccys
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:17:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 18/05/2006 11:25:43
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Omg 3960 dps just with drones? Thats insane :O
But anyway, how about non-siege mode.
Basically I wanna know if a un-sieged moros with 5 ogres II wud outdamage a moros with 9 fighters (just the drones, not considering the guns).
Eddz, if the bonus dont apply to assigned fighters I dont see why thanatos is massively overpowered.
If all you do all day is sit at safe and assign your fighters, then you sir are a coward ;)
Mine gets into battle, as often as I can get it there. And there are moments as I watch the BS/Hac target shield/armour drop, that I wish hard I had a thanatos.
5% resistance to damage or 10% damage, that statement alone shows its unfair.
wudnt you rather stay alive than dealing more damage?
edit: footloose do u mean siege module increase drone damage aswell? does it also nerf their tracking speed?
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Omg 3960 dps just with drones? Thats insane :O
But anyway, how about non-siege mode.
Basically I wanna know if a un-sieged moros with 5 ogres II wud outdamage a moros with 9 fighters (just the drones, not considering the guns).
Eddz, if the bonus dont apply to assigned fighters I dont see why thanatos is massively overpowered.
If all you do all day is sit at safe and assign your fighters, then you sir are a coward ;)
Mine gets into battle, as often as I can get it there. And there are moments as I watch the BS/Hac target shield/armour drop, that I wish hard I had a thanatos.
5% resistance to damage or 10% damage, that statement alone shows its unfair.
wudnt you rather stay alive than dealing more damage?
dealing more damage and thus being able to kill the guys that deal the damage to YOU is like recieving less dmg.
im tired, but i think u know what i mean, gobbity gob
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:29:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 18/05/2006 11:29:35
Yes woody I get it, but I think carrier wer designed to play heavily on their tanks, remote repping each other ecc. with help of gang modules aswell.
I such scenario the 20% enhanced tanking really shines over the increased damage imo altho on the other hand mixing shield and armor tankers wud be a bad idea.
edit: also wot about siege module affecting drones?
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:52:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Abyss Jack on 18/05/2006 11:59:51
Originally by: Abyss Jack
he's doing near the same damage as my thanatos... so what
never said other carriers make same dmg as thanatos, just NEAR the same with 3/3/3 skills OMG woody
tbh in a 1v1 moros against thana = the the moros will pop without siegemode.
The trick are dragonfly drones, they are bugged and orbiting the target 7-10km, while thana can easy smartbomb the Ogre II
for note, i know this would just be a tactical victory. I'm not sure how good 1500dps can break capital tanks.
and i thought this is a carrier thread, so stfu moros
/me kicks them back to poswarfare
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Abyss Jack
Edited by: Abyss Jack on 18/05/2006 11:59:51
Originally by: Abyss Jack
he's doing near the same damage as my thanatos... so what
never said other carriers make same dmg as thanatos, just NEAR the same with 3/3/3 skills OMG woody
tbh in a 1v1 moros against thana = the the moros will pop without siegemode.
The trick are dragonfly drones, they are bugged and orbiting the target 7-10km, while thana can easy smartbomb the Ogre II
for note, i know this would just be a tactical victory. I'm not sure how good 1500dps can break capital tanks.
and i thought this is a carrier thread, so stfu moros
/me kicks them back to poswarfare
First, Moros gets +50% Drone HP per level and it can also hold 20 Ogres II in its drone bay
Summertime - Campingtime!
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Capone McFredrik
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Morrigan Starlover
On most ships I would fight and say no they specialize in a different weapon system or something, but I agree on this.
Its a carrier. They fight with drones and fighters. Its their only damage system, they should all get the same bonus.
That 5% resistances and shield/armor transfer times is just CPP scratching their heads not knowing wtf to do.
The carriers and motherships are the ONLY ones where I think the bonuses should be absolutely identical.
Gallente carriers appear to be the only ones worth training for unfortunately.
What a pile of crap!
I think that range is good, so I will go for the carrier with the range bonus.
Other ppl have different opinions / needs. The carrier will anyway wtfpwn a couple of BS and the carrier is a good resource if used correctly!
Train the carrier of the race you like the best =)
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Capone McFredrik
Originally by: Morrigan Starlover
On most ships I would fight and say no they specialize in a different weapon system or something, but I agree on this.
Its a carrier. They fight with drones and fighters. Its their only damage system, they should all get the same bonus.
That 5% resistances and shield/armor transfer times is just CPP scratching their heads not knowing wtf to do.
The carriers and motherships are the ONLY ones where I think the bonuses should be absolutely identical.
Gallente carriers appear to be the only ones worth training for unfortunately.
What a pile of crap!
I think that range is good, so I will go for the carrier with the range bonus.
Other ppl have different opinions / needs. The carrier will anyway wtfpwn a couple of BS and the carrier is a good resource if used correctly!
Train the carrier of the race you like the best =)
No BS will die to a carrier. Why? Cause fighters wars behind your target, you cant give fighters commandos while warping and thy warp slower than Battleships.
You can make a complete Carrier useless just by warping around.
Summertime - Campingtime!
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Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:50:00 -
[35]
ye like they are no warpscamblers and smartbombs have only 1 shot 
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Eddz
The Gallente Dread and Carrier are over powered in comparison to the other races, any one that argues different is a noob with no idea what they are talking about.
Well tbh if you are JUST doing it for capital ships, Eddz is absolutely correct. As far as Dreads go, the Revelation is arguably better for taking shields down on POS, but the WTFPWNAGE of the drones on a Moros is just INSANE. Those huge dps numbers from drones aren't wrong (as anyone facing a skilled Moros pilot can tell you). The other dreads basically fly around naked where a Moros flies around with a Minifleet of Doom.....
As far as Carriers, there is one carrier to rule them all. Thanatos. An extra low and resists would be nice, but you can't disagree that in sheer destructive potential it wins hands down. Unfortunately, if you assign your drones to someone else it seems that the bonuses from the carrier and pilot no longer apply. So unless you have the cohones to risk a carrier on the front lines it doesn't matter all that much what type of carrier you have. On sheer looks I think the Matari carrier looks the best.
Has anyone tried to assign drones to someone with the Fighter skill trained? Do the drones get a skill bonus from the assigned person?
Just curious.
Nyxus
Once he presses "activate F1", Mr Titan is no longer your friend. |
Abyss Jack
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:59:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Abyss Jack on 18/05/2006 13:59:44
Originally by: Eddz
The Gallente Dread and Carrier are over powered in comparison to the other races, any one that argues different is a noob with no idea what they are talking about.
gallente r ugly, and their navy is poor (look navy description) so thats why they spam with cheap drones )/&%(%º$º%
fly a thanatos first and tell me how overpowerd it is?! i bet you will whine about wasted SP for such a useless stone...
-pvp/piracy is too expansive after a few fighter looses (just for the reason they won't mwd back)
-lowsec mission farming or 0.0 beltfarming are the only points where thanatos rules imao
-pos'ing / instahauling is good too (but every carrier can do it)
-just saying its "overpowered" is not enough, you have to call good reasons in which case you can USE this power?! Imo there is only the npc case aslong the dmgbonus doesn't effect appended drones on gangmates, but the bonus doesn't rox like you imagine... try it yourself. 
whining about stats and dps math is not cool, the issue itself is not wtfuber (yes minmi carriers...)
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.05.18 14:42:00 -
[38]
Can anyone please confirm is drones are affected by siege mode?
Do they get damage bonus and tracking malus?
Thanks
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |
mr passie
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Posted - 2006.05.18 14:49:00 -
[39]
Edited by: mr passie on 18/05/2006 14:49:39
You know....
This whole discussion would be pointless if everyone would just start flying minnie carriers
As long as not everyone does and no one wants to fly va minnie carrier you can all donate them to me
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I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic.
I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them |
Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 14:51:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 18/05/2006 14:52:12
Originally by: Abyss Jack
never said other carriers make same dmg as thanatos, just NEAR the same with 3/3/3 skills OMG woody
yes, and thus assuming that he will do same dmg as you with ur skills at 4 i assume?
i dont want to harass you, i just want to point out that ur statement is simply wrong.
Thanatos does 40% more damage. No other tier 2 bs does fricking 40% more damage then their counterparts. Dreads also not. Wait... theres the moros...
also, a non siegemode Moros can tank ur fighters forever still.
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2006.05.18 14:53:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 18/05/2006 14:55:13
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Can anyone please confirm is drones are affected by siege mode?
Do they get damage bonus and tracking malus?
Thanks
no tracking malus. damage bonus afaik yessir
i will try to test it today with a mate, gobbity gobby gob
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