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Demacles	Posted - 2006.05.18 20:19:00 - [1] For all these people who think NOS are fine just as they are, lets introduce a new module called Captiol NOS for use on capitol ships. It will devastate a BSes cap the same way a BS does anything smaller. Sound like fun? Yeah nos are fine just as they are so lets add a module for the capitol ship pilots, why should they miss out. Obviously a range bonus would be in order as well. Something in the realm of 80KM as the progression from 5 -> 10 -> 25 would denote the next step would be around 75-80. We already have counters for NOS in place so lets introduce this right? We have ECM, cap rechagers, boosters, relays, etc so why not introduce this if the NOS setup is oh so fair? Before someone suggests I was the most recent victim of a NOS domi or other BS, think again. In fact I actually fly NOS domi's I just don't think they should be nearly as effective as they are. NOS removes the need for smaller tacklers as 1 hit off a BS sized NOS on a frig can bring it to a skreaching halt.
ragewind	Posted - 2006.05.18 20:24:00 - [2] yes cool all for it and any fool that trys taking a capial ship on 1v1 is a fool and deserves to die quite simpel to deal with get the first ship agroed to be a pasive tanked ship then warp a fleet of 20Bs in and watch the cap ship get worryed fast so were is the problem? ------------------------------------ fix eves industrial sector! advanced industrial ship
Demacles	Posted - 2006.05.18 20:27:00 - [3] Problem stems from a Moros fitting more than 1 capitol NOS. Think about it. 4 Capitol NOS could have 4 possible BS targets or just 1 very unfortunate fool. Equivalent to Dominix just on a grander scale.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.18 20:32:00 - [4] Edited by: Weirda on 18/05/2006 20:35:45 would be even more fun if Capitol NOS were area of effect rather then targetted! can see what you doing here though - honestly all the nos thread have been done though, not a whole lot new idea in there. am sure that the DEV are looking at their role (and have probably even posted somewhere). if they haven't - they should. Naughty Boy would prolly know. whatever they determine though - they should look into the role, and we 'the players' should accept it (as long as they state some damn good reason for their conclusion). personally weirda feel that the easiest and most effective fix is that the target must have the amount of cap that it sucks - or it deactivates and blinks for a cycle. this way if friggie had 108 cap, and module pulled 120, it would simply deactivate without pulling anything (just like any other module in game does if it doesn't have the energy to RUN). all the sig radius based idea kind of annoying to weirda, since everything is so 'sig radius' based - and this has so little to do with tracking and 'hitting' the signature of a ship. weirda see it as more of a magnetic (or something) draw to the source of the power of target ship, and the module itself doesn't even have to aim. this would force people to 'choose their nos' just like any other weapon. going against BS - bring BS nos, if you fear teh little friggie fleets, maybe you should have rack of medium or small nos so that you can get them closer to '0' cap. with some friggies you may even be able to make ship immune to heavy nos with use of flux coil. bottom line (again for weirda) is not so much the devastating effect that the nos have on smaller target, it is just that it is 'activate and forget' module and will keep pulling whatever cap is available each drag - which require no pilot skill, fitting planning, or anything else. and that is what need to change (not a direct mechanic nerf - we have way too much of those as it is). this is 3rd or 4th time that weirda post this idea since thought it up - will have to put linky in sig or something so that don't keep typing it out. you do bring up a good point, and the presentation is nice. pretty sure have seen it numberable time before, but perhaps starting thread with that will have greater impact. cheers /w __ Weirda Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
Arakasai	Posted - 2006.05.18 20:38:00 - [5] And? It should take effort and planning for a group of Battleships to take out a Capital Ship. A Moros with 4x Capital Nos would be serving a purpose. Trading offensive damage for the ability to affect 4 Battleships. If you assume the Moros is alone, it could drop the efficiency of 4 Battleships and release the drones, assuming the Battleships were in range to be drained. If you assume a Moros as a support ship, it could drop the efficiency of 4 Battleships and the opposing Dread would be busy destroying it. A capital ship should be a viable deterent against multiple battleships especially if they are not configured properly. In the same fashion a Battleship should be a viable deterrent against multiple frigates.
Jurushy	Posted - 2006.05.18 20:42:00 - [6] why not also bring this smaller weapons could do full damage on higher class schilds and armor imagine someone shoot whit a pistol on a train or a truck its like nothing happen and next part bigger ships bigger engine so why the ** can a small ***** frig remove it? in my opinion the whining about counter systems again smaller ships is to onesidet i a few months if this situation doesnt change everyone would fly interceptors becous u are in bigger ships something like dead meat
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.05.18 20:46:00 - [7] imo capital nosses would b great tpo have, a way to balance them would be to give em a pretty long cycle, so they could sweep a bs cap with one hit or so, but cant keep the cap low. it tho would be pretty useful on dreads in siege mode. might b a way to get the carriers out of the safespots. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Karl Shade	Posted - 2006.05.18 21:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Jurushy why not also bring this smaller weapons could not do full damage on higher class schilds and armor imagine someone shoot whit a pistol on a train or a truck its like nothing happen You know. I just hate that. Everytime I try to kill a train in my harpy it just sits there taking no damage. -
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.18 21:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Jurushy Edited by: Jurushy on 18/05/2006 20:48:13 why not also bring this smaller weapons could not do full damage on higher class schilds and armor imagine someone shoot whit a pistol on a train or a truck its like nothing happen because a) it is off topic b) retarded and unbalanced c) not even good analogy - we not shooting pistols... think more along the lines of a fighter jet blowing up a high rise... pretty clear that you didn't even read weirda suggestion - which even a majority of ppl that don't think NOS should be changed can live with... it is hard to argue that you don't want to have to 'think/time/manage' the nos usage without soundling like noob that doesn't have capacity to do that in battle... __ NOS AS WCS Idea #223579
Zed Nash	Posted - 2006.05.18 21:32:00 - [10] Edited by: Zed Nash on 18/05/2006 21:33:04 Originally by: Demacles For all these people who think NOS are fine just as they are, lets introduce a new module called Captiol NOS for use on capitol ships. It will devastate a BSes cap the same way a BS does anything smaller. Sound like fun? Yeah nos are fine just as they are so lets add a module for the capitol ship pilots, why should they miss out. Obviously a range bonus would be in order as well. Something in the realm of 80KM as the progression from 5 -> 10 -> 25 would denote the next step would be around 75-80. We already have counters for NOS in place so lets introduce this right? We have ECM, cap rechagers, boosters, relays, etc so why not introduce this if the NOS setup is oh so fair? Before someone suggests I was the most recent victim of a NOS domi or other BS, think again. In fact I actually fly NOS domi's I just don't think they should be nearly as effective as they are. NOS removes the need for smaller tacklers as 1 hit off a BS sized NOS on a frig can bring it to a skreaching halt. If a BS tries to solo a capital, it deserves to die. I'm all for adding capital Nos. This arguement is moot, since every pro-Nos arguement I've seen supports ship class progression. It's the anti-Nos crowd who doesn't. "Maya Rkell is my online stalker."
Darpz	Posted - 2006.05.18 21:32:00 - [11] well if you followed the current trend of each larger nos having twice the range of the lower one and twice the cap pull also have twice the cycle rate it wouldn't be that bad. moros would have no more cap pull than a domi. thantos would be able to do more than a domi but wouldn't OMG over powerd. The only good fix is a DEAD fix
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:08:00 - [12] This is a moot question because most bs's would snipe from 200+ kms away. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
D'onryu Shoqui	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:16:00 - [13] capital NOS FTW! be something to worry titans
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:21:00 - [14] I think XL Nos would make Dreads viable solo combat ships...lol.
Loki Caldaris	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:48:00 - [15] Following the normal progression, a Capital NOS would steal about 15 cap per second(360 every 24 seconds). Seems sorta weak to me compared to other modules for capital ships.
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:49:00 - [16] Capital Nos Dominix? Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com
Darpz	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Hephaesteus This is a moot question because most bs's would snipe from 200+ kms away. thats the stupidist thing for a BS to do against a cap ship, since tracking isn't as big of an issue at that range the Dread will just insta pop one BS after another The only good fix is a DEAD fix
Enigmier	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:59:00 - [18] dreads are for killing POS`s, you aint going to kill much with Nosferatu`s are you..
Mr Breakfast	Posted - 2006.05.19 06:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Enigmier dreads are for killing POS`s, you aint going to kill much with Nosferatu`s are you.. moros + heavy drones = dead BS
Pax Uranus	Posted - 2006.05.19 06:34:00 - [20] I wonder how silly the OP feels now that the whole premise of his post isn't quite working out how he thinks it would have. The premise being that everyone who defends NOS must be some battleship pilot who wants to WTFBBQSUCK smaller ships dry and can't handle karmic payback. Clearly, this premise is pretty weak seeing as an alarming number of people would have zero problems with capitol NOS. Nice try though. Really. golfclap
Laboratus	Posted - 2006.05.19 07:16:00 - [21] Capitol Nos, why not. This might be just the thing that bring carriers to the front lines. Bring it on, I say!
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.05.19 07:54:00 - [22] yes please [23] Member: BoB Alt Haha shin ra, haha.
Padaxes	Posted - 2006.05.19 07:57:00 - [23] I agree Capitol NOS would be great. Oh yeah and normal NOS are fine as well. Great thread!
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.19 07:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Zed Nash Edited by: Zed Nash on 18/05/2006 21:33:04 Originally by: Demacles For all these people who think NOS are fine just as they are, lets introduce a new module called Captiol NOS for use on capitol ships. It will devastate a BSes cap the same way a BS does anything smaller. Sound like fun? Yeah nos are fine just as they are so lets add a module for the capitol ship pilots, why should they miss out. Obviously a range bonus would be in order as well. Something in the realm of 80KM as the progression from 5 -> 10 -> 25 would denote the next step would be around 75-80. We already have counters for NOS in place so lets introduce this right? We have ECM, cap rechagers, boosters, relays, etc so why not introduce this if the NOS setup is oh so fair? Before someone suggests I was the most recent victim of a NOS domi or other BS, think again. In fact I actually fly NOS domi's I just don't think they should be nearly as effective as they are. NOS removes the need for smaller tacklers as 1 hit off a BS sized NOS on a frig can bring it to a skreaching halt. If a BS tries to solo a capital, it deserves to die. I'm all for adding capital Nos. That's already the case, so why are cap nos suddenly needed? The way I see it, the vampire-domi is about as unbalanced as it can be. It shred frigs, rip cruisers, break the strongest BS tanks, can do some EW, and tanks like hell. It's only weakness is it's range, limited to 20-25km, but when nearly every ship can't prevent to warp beyond that distance, is that really a weakness? Adding capital NOS would only recreate the problem on a larger scale. A gang of 10-15 well organized BS should be able to take on any dread or carrier fairly easily, and killing the cap of the capital ship is often the only way to break it's tank. If you add capital nos, you'll have the Moros and the Thanatos, which already are arguably the best carriers and dreads, so far out of whack that no one will ever fly anything else.
Hephaesteus	Posted - 2006.05.19 09:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Darpz Originally by: Hephaesteus This is a moot question because most bs's would snipe from 200+ kms away. thats the stupidist thing for a BS to do against a cap ship, since tracking isn't as big of an issue at that range the Dread will just insta pop one BS after another Hey I was playing devils advocate, ok. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Laboratus	Posted - 2006.05.19 10:10:00 - [26] Originally by: Shadowsword That's already the case, so why are cap nos suddenly needed? I think the point here is Irony and the fact that it would not unbalance the situation further. More on this. Originally by: Shadowsword The way I see it, the vampire-domi is about as unbalanced as it can be. It shred frigs, rip cruisers, break the strongest BS tanks, can do some EW, and tanks like hell. It's only weakness is it's range, limited to 20-25km, but when nearly every ship can't prevent to warp beyond that distance, is that really a weakness? Adding capital NOS would only recreate the problem on a larger scale. Yes, the sixth largest anti small ship platform in game. Moros comes as number five and all the titans are above it. Click to WTFPWN ships with less than 37.5k hp. Ultra short range ships are supposed to shread longer range ships to pieces. Thats why they have to sacrifice the edge of mobility and range. It's a huge sacrifice. As I've always said, if you want to fight something prepare for it. Yes the vampadomi is strong against close range setups, however it can be totaly pwnd by the simple use of a single interdictor and a medium range ship. Without the ability to warp away and using range to render the domis cap recharge system and weapons useless, the domi is history. If you want to gamble, use the interdictor as bait for the domi to feed out all its drones for the slaughter. It can't be gankd due to It being broken, it can't be ganked due to incompetence. Simply Prepare. If you are ganking industrials, you set up for tackle, a bit of damage and a bit of tank. If you are trying to solo gank solo ships, set up for tank and drain. If you are trying to gank several ppl set up for range , ew and gank. If you are ganking poses set up for tank and gank. Know who you are fighting, set up accordingly, pwn and don't whine. Sun Tzu: Art of war: " Know your enemy, know your self, and there can be no defeat" It's that simple guys, in life as in EVE. Originally by: Shadowsword A gang of 10-15 well organized BS should be able to take on any dread or carrier fairly easily, and killing the cap of the capital ship is often the only way to break it's tank. If you add capital nos, you'll have the Moros and the Thanatos, which already are arguably the best carriers and dreads, so far out of whack that no one will ever fly anything else. Yes, this is true, if you stay in it's nos range. This again needs a change of tactics. It changes the game it's true, but not nececcerily in a bad direction. At the moment the dreads are nothing but POS and cap ship killers. They are not deployed in normal fleet movements. Or not atleast to the extent I've seen. Getting a capital nos might be the thing needed to get these beasts to do what capital ships are meant to do. Be the ships of the line. Be the very core of a battle group that can take damage and had it out. IMHO if this would bring them closer to this role it might take the game in a more interesting direction. Think about it. Epic battles where huge fleets with cap ships at their core pounding at each other for a long time while their support tries to produce the edge needed to bring the enemy down. Anyways, this is my humble opinion.
Arimdar	Posted - 2006.05.19 10:26:00 - [27] Edited by: Arimdar on 19/05/2006 10:26:33 Smells like troll but I will reply anyway. Originally by: Demacles Yeah nos are fine just as they are so lets add a module for the capitol ship pilots, why should they miss out. Obviously a range bonus would be in order as well. Something in the realm of 80KM as the progression from 5 -> 10 -> 25 would denote the next step would be around 75-80. Small/Medium/Large nosferatu ranges are, 5,5/10/21 km so the next logical step is about 40km. Activation time reaspectively 3/6/12/ and 24sec. Energy transfer amount 8/30/100 and 300 (or 350) Energy trasfer per second 2,7/5/8,3 and 12,5 (or 14,5)
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.19 10:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Laboratus Getting a capital nos might be the thing needed to get these beasts to do what capital ships are meant to do. Be the ships of the line. Be the very core of a battle group that can take damage and had it out. IMHO if this would bring them closer to this role it might take the game in a more interesting direction. Think about it. Epic battles where huge fleets with cap ships at their core pounding at each other for a long time while their support tries to produce the edge needed to bring the enemy down. Anyways, this is my humble opinion. I'm thinking about it, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. If XL nos have a 40km range, that's way too short for most fleet battles, and then you have the problem of the limited number of high slots. If you put a capital nos, that's not enough to turn the tide of the battle. If you put two, your direct firepower is decreased by 33%. The previsible outcome of a module like that would be vampire-moros and vampire-thanatos doing huge DoT with their drones/fighters and vampire-rRvelation or other doing pathetic damage with it's heavy drones that a passive tanked BS would laught at.
Laboratus	Posted - 2006.05.19 10:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Shadowsword I'm thinking about it, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. If XL nos have a 40km range, that's way too short for most fleet battles, and then you have the problem of the limited number of high slots. If you put a capital nos, that's not enough to turn the tide of the battle. If you put two, your direct firepower is decreased by 33%. The previsible outcome of a module like that would be vampire-moros and vampire-thanatos doing huge DoT with their drones/fighters and vampire-rRvelation or other doing pathetic damage with it's heavy drones that a passive tanked BS would laught at. This is true, peeps aren't prepared to risk their big investments, however, it seems, that quite a few peeps are dead afraid of noses. They apparently don't know that nos es have pathetic range. Yes, as such this would give somewhat of a boost to ultra short range ships such as drone carriers and short range laser/ hybrid turrets. As hybrids and lasers need energy, nos es are a good way of providing this. It brings them on par with missile ships and apparently projectile ships, as they will propably lose the need for cap use on guns on the next patch. IMHO this gives LOVE to the ships that need it most.
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.19 12:48:00 - [30] To all the people going "sure, would bring carriers to the front" etc.. If a ship class needs one single module to be effective, and cannot compete without it, there's either problems with the ship or the module. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.05.19 13:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Krulla To all the people going "sure, would bring carriers to the front" etc.. If a ship class needs one single module to be effective, and cannot compete without it, there's either problems with the ship or the module. Translation : Dominix, Typhoon, Bhalghorn, every minmatar ship with secondary missile slots, ravens, ferox, vexor and the ishtar all need to be fixed. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Xenon Cypher	Posted - 2006.05.19 13:45:00 - [32] Also - bring in capitol MWDs so that we can have a MWDing Capitol-NOS Moros *shudders
Pointless Vengence	Posted - 2006.05.19 13:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Krulla To all the people going "sure, would bring carriers to the front" etc.. If a ship class needs one single module to be effective, and cannot compete without it, there's either problems with the ship or the module. I disagree. Mining Barges and Strip Miners? Drones and drone ships? ECM and Blackbirds? Sensor Damps and Celestis? Cloaks and Covert Ops Frigs? Modules help a ship fulfill its role. Some people may be comfortable keeping their carriers in the background, and others may want to bring theirs to the front line. If a capital Nos would make brining carriers and motherships to the front lines easier for some players, go for it. The point of the game is to have fun . . . a XL Nos would increase role diversity and game enjoyment for capital ship owners. For some, a ship that cannot have action in the front lines would be boring, rendering ownership of such a ship for enjoyment . . . -Pointless
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.19 14:04:00 - [34] Edited by: Krulla on 19/05/2006 14:04:20 Originally by: Pointless Vengence Originally by: Krulla To all the people going "sure, would bring carriers to the front" etc.. If a ship class needs one single module to be effective, and cannot compete without it, there's either problems with the ship or the module. I disagree. Mining Barges and Strip Miners? Drones and drone ships? ECM and Blackbirds? Sensor Damps and Celestis? Cloaks and Covert Ops Frigs? Modules help a ship fulfill its role. Some people may be comfortable keeping their carriers in the background, and others may want to bring theirs to the front line. If a capital Nos would make brining carriers and motherships to the front lines easier for some players, go for it. The point of the game is to have fun . . . a XL Nos would increase role diversity and game enjoyment for capital ship owners. For some, a ship that cannot have action in the front lines would be boring, rendering ownership of such a ship for enjoyment . . . -Pointless Uh. Every single ship and module you mentioned are tailored to the use of that module. The only ships tailored to using nosferatu are the blood raider faction ships. The Domi isn't tailored to using nosferatu (Although a blasterdomi is twice as lethal as a nosdom, but people are sheep and just use the FOTM without thinking), neither is the vexor - Yet people choose to kit them out with nosferatu rather than fit them with the modules they get bonii for - And doesn't this say something about the power of nos? Saying Carriers can't compete without xl Nos says to me that carriers are broken. Adding xl Nos just to make carriers more viable would be a bandaid fix at best and would ultimately harm the game. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.05.19 15:43:00 - [35] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 19/05/2006 15:43:46 Originally by: Krulla Yet people choose to kit them out with nosferatu rather than fit them with the modules they get bonii for - And doesn't this say something about the power of nos? No it tells me that medium blasters have obscene fittings and rails on gallente cruisers are suicide. It doesn't mean the NOS is overpowered but that it better serves the close range role as a weapon than medium blasters. Quote: Saying Carriers can't compete without xl Nos says to me that carriers are broken. Adding xl Nos just to make carriers more viable would be a bandaid fix at best and would ultimately harm the game. Says to me that : a) People want there to be continuity between the small drone carriers like the arbitrator, vexor, dominix and typhoon. b) Some people are afraid of allowing continuity to take place. c) Opinions are like arses... everyones got one and they all stink. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.19 15:58:00 - [36] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 19/05/2006 15:43:46 Originally by: Krulla Yet people choose to kit them out with nosferatu rather than fit them with the modules they get bonii for - And doesn't this say something about the power of nos? No it tells me that medium blasters have obscene fittings and rails on gallente cruisers are suicide. It doesn't mean the NOS is overpowered but that it better serves the close range role as a weapon than medium blasters. Quote: Saying Carriers can't compete without xl Nos says to me that carriers are broken. Adding xl Nos just to make carriers more viable would be a bandaid fix at best and would ultimately harm the game. Says to me that : a) People want there to be continuity between the small drone carriers like the arbitrator, vexor, dominix and typhoon. b) Some people are afraid of allowing continuity to take place. c) Opinions are like arses... everyones got one and they all stink. sorry kay... krulla is right... you are either wrong or just not reading his post. a) is ridiculuous b) is straw man.../ad hominum (either way - invalid and irrelevant) c) is true... but borders on toolishly embarassing in this context... saying that carrier cannot compete w/o nos is saying that there is something wrong with both them AND nos. if the nos alone is what would fix them, then it is the nos that is broken. not gonna comment on blasters on ship vs. nos. regardless... everyone is afraid to comment on weirda idea because it would mean that they might need to figure out how to manage their nos while fighting... see sig... __ NOS AS WCS Idea #223579
Prestis	Posted - 2006.05.19 16:00:00 - [37] The issue with NOS is it destroying much more expensive high-skill smaller T2 ships (ie. Cruiser vs AF or BS vs HAC). But since capital ships start at 10x BS prices, I don't see the problem with this. Capital ships aren't very 'capital' at the moment anyway.
Pax Uranus	Posted - 2006.05.19 16:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Prestis The issue with NOS is it destroying much more expensive high-skill smaller T2 ships (ie. Cruiser vs AF or BS vs HAC). There's one small problem with the ship "price" part of your argument, and the problem is that you're looking at balance from the standpoint of player-run market valuations. What the average player pays isn't what T2 ships actually cost to make. Just because a HAC may "cost" anywhere from 2-4 times what a BS does (or an AF costing 3-7 times what a Cruiser does) isn't a license for it to OMGWTFBBQBLICK the larger ship.
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.19 16:45:00 - [39] Originally by: Prestis The issue with NOS is it destroying much more expensive high-skill smaller T2 ships (ie. Cruiser vs AF or BS vs HAC). But since capital ships start at 10x BS prices, I don't see the problem with this. Capital ships aren't very 'capital' at the moment anyway. Wallets don't determine who should win a fight. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.19 17:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Prestis The issue with NOS is it destroying much more expensive high-skill smaller T2 ships (ie. Cruiser vs AF or BS vs HAC). But since capital ships start at 10x BS prices, I don't see the problem with this. Capital ships aren't very 'capital' at the moment anyway. Wallets don't determine who should win a fight. yeah - weirda demand that daredevil and dramiel (and hell even hookbill) should be able to easily solo all t1 BS... __ NOS AS WCS Idea #223579
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.05.19 18:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Weirda Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 19/05/2006 15:43:46 Originally by: Krulla Yet people choose to kit them out with nosferatu rather than fit them with the modules they get bonii for - And doesn't this say something about the power of nos? No it tells me that medium blasters have obscene fittings and rails on gallente cruisers are suicide. It doesn't mean the NOS is overpowered but that it better serves the close range role as a weapon than medium blasters. Quote: Saying Carriers can't compete without xl Nos says to me that carriers are broken. Adding xl Nos just to make carriers more viable would be a bandaid fix at best and would ultimately harm the game. Says to me that : a) People want there to be continuity between the small drone carriers like the arbitrator, vexor, dominix and typhoon. b) Some people are afraid of allowing continuity to take place. c) Opinions are like arses... everyones got one and they all stink. sorry kay... krulla is right... you are either wrong or just not reading his post. a) is ridiculuous b) is straw man.../ad hominum (either way - invalid and irrelevant) c) is true... but borders on toolishly embarassing in this context... saying that carrier cannot compete w/o nos is saying that there is something wrong with both them AND nos. if the nos alone is what would fix them, then it is the nos that is broken. not gonna comment on blasters on ship vs. nos. regardless... everyone is afraid to comment on weirda idea because it would mean that they might need to figure out how to manage their nos while fighting... see sig... I never said they couldn't compete. My foolishly toolish c) was directed at the sheep statement... cause imo Krulla is a sheep for saying others are sheep because its sheepish for the cool clued in kids to say other people are sheep because they follow common advice. And I don't believe Krulla is anywhere near correct thinking a domi is more dangerous with blasters than with NOS as the TQ stands. However, I find the new Blasterthron changes are going to put the nail in the coffin for any blaster domi setup. Domis will NEED NOS and Ewar to compete with the new Blasterthron. Hell, a Tempest cannot tank a well fit Blasterthron with 2 NOS, 6 dual 650s IIs, t2 ammo and a 2 x LAR II setup, and has to switch to torpedos to remain king of the AC vs Blaster war. The topic is about capital NOS tho so I wont' digress anymore... I don't think NOS is going to be a problem next patch. I think Capital NOS would be really funny in that ships would NEED NOS in fleet battle just to shoot their guns and allow for ships like the megathron to actually rise to occasion in the new scenario of fleet war. I'd like to test it first because it sounds promising. But if not... oh well. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Crellion	Posted - 2006.05.19 18:29:00 - [42] Oh I see it now.... A single BS can pown a Moros with no capital NOS. If the Moros fits 1 capital NOS the Moros > 1 single BS. Yes that a trvavesty of justice...
Laboratus	Posted - 2006.05.19 21:30:00 - [43] Edited by: Laboratus on 19/05/2006 21:33:00 Originally by: Crellion Oh I see it now.... A single BS can pown a Moros with no capital NOS. If the Moros fits 1 capital NOS the Moros > 1 single BS. Yes that a trvavesty of justice... Nope, we had around 6 I think Domies with 5 large nos es and 1 large neut trying to drain a dreads cap, didn't work. It got around 30% and stopped there. While it was repping and shooting at the same time. No use, gotto use more to drain the cap. Maybe 10 to 15 nos domis would do the trick. Perhaps. Anyways, I think they all got wasted, Wasn't there for the end of the fight. Anyways, if a cap ship wants to sacrifice a high slot for a cap nos, I think is should go ahead. But complaining that frigs cant solo BSs is like complaining that cruisers can't solo dreads or BS can't solo titans.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.05.20 05:39:00 - [44] Originally by: Demacles For all these people who think NOS are fine just as they are, lets introduce a new module called Captiol NOS for use on capitol ships. It will devastate a BSes cap the same way a BS does anything smaller. Sound like fun? Yeah nos are fine just as they are so lets add a module for the capitol ship pilots, why should they miss out. Obviously a range bonus would be in order as well. Something in the realm of 80KM as the progression from 5 -> 10 -> 25 would denote the next step would be around 75-80. We already have counters for NOS in place so lets introduce this right? We have ECM, cap rechagers, boosters, relays, etc so why not introduce this if the NOS setup is oh so fair? Before someone suggests I was the most recent victim of a NOS domi or other BS, think again. In fact I actually fly NOS domi's I just don't think they should be nearly as effective as they are. NOS removes the need for smaller tacklers as 1 hit off a BS sized NOS on a frig can bring it to a skreaching halt. I'm down for Capital NOS, they've be about 50km range for the t1 mods, drain 300-400cap, and have probably a 20-30 second cycle time. TBH, I'd rather see Capital Shield Extenders and 10000mm armor plates. Screw the damn NOS, I want to see 200k+ armor/shield cap ships. /me wonders if Pottsey would die from happiness at the thought of a 250k or so passive tank.
Sebroth	Posted - 2006.05.20 10:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Demacles For all these people who think NOS are fine just as they are, lets introduce a new module called Captiol NOS for use on capitol ships. It will devastate a BSes cap the same way a BS does anything smaller. Sound like fun? Yeah nos are fine just as they are so lets add a module for the capitol ship pilots, why should they miss out. Obviously a range bonus would be in order as well. Something in the realm of 80KM as the progression from 5 -> 10 -> 25 would denote the next step would be around 75-80. We already have counters for NOS in place so lets introduce this right? We have ECM, cap rechagers, boosters, relays, etc so why not introduce this if the NOS setup is oh so fair? Before someone suggests I was the most recent victim of a NOS domi or other BS, think again. In fact I actually fly NOS domi's I just don't think they should be nearly as effective as they are. NOS removes the need for smaller tacklers as 1 hit off a BS sized NOS on a frig can bring it to a skreaching halt. yes plz and no Im not a BS pilot Im a cruiser/hac/recon ect pilot and I think that the nos is fine as its now.
FFGR	Posted - 2006.05.20 10:52:00 - [46] You can have your capital NOS when I have : BS sized EW modules that don't give a damn if you are immune to EW(14 base racial jammer) Scramblers that stop you from jumping out of system Change of Moros drone bonus to 1% worse cap recharge per level A number of other things that would make smaller ships able to kill a dread in 1 shot Thank you that would be it _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:02:00 - [47] yes, this would be especially good for carriers. dreads serve another purpose imo, but for carriers / motherships this would be nice to have! --------------------------------
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.20 14:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Kaylana Syi And I don't believe Krulla is anywhere near correct thinking a domi is more dangerous with blasters than with NOS as the TQ stands. Did you know that a blasterdomi A) Tanks as well as a bmega. B) Does about 200-300 more DPS C) Costs less? And the changes to blasters help the blaster domi as much as the blaster mega. Granted, the bmega has one more turret so the changes help them that bit more, but the blaster domi will still do more dps and tank as well as a blaster mega. The mega is borked, both before and after those minor changes. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
eve warrior	Posted - 2006.05.20 17:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Demacles For all these people who think NOS are fine just as they are, lets introduce a new module called Captiol NOS for use on capitol ships. It will devastate a BSes cap the same way a BS does anything smaller. Sound like fun? Yeah nos are fine just as they are so lets add a module for the capitol ship pilots, why should they miss out. Obviously a range bonus would be in order as well. Something in the realm of 80KM as the progression from 5 -> 10 -> 25 would denote the next step would be around 75-80. We already have counters for NOS in place so lets introduce this right? We have ECM, cap rechagers, boosters, relays, etc so why not introduce this if the NOS setup is oh so fair? Before someone suggests I was the most recent victim of a NOS domi or other BS, think again. In fact I actually fly NOS domi's I just don't think they should be nearly as effective as they are. NOS removes the need for smaller tacklers as 1 hit off a BS sized NOS on a frig can bring it to a skreaching halt. Sounds like a great idear. Lets bring them into the game asap. Eve warrior

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