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Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
840
   |
Posted - 2014.04.26 22:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Saw this on Reddit. Posting here: http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/only-you-can-save-universe-ccp-seagull_26.htmlEDIT: Since no one can be bothered to read the article posted, it goes over how non-representative CPM members can be and how the majority of non-Goon players can look at the long line of Goon representation as something bad for the games overall health. Is that good enough for all the lazy people out there? EDIT: Read the damn article if you want to comment.
You deserve far more Likes for the fact that you listened
and added the information to the initial post.
Others would just have kept talking and argueing.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860
Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears!
And how do I put text as links into signatures?? |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
841
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 23:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
I've read through 75% and have no opinion on the matter.
..... well, almost.
My peppermint tea is ready. *sniff*
EVE players play because of glory AND shame.
Shame is part od the game.
In other games, there's just glory.
You lvl up, you're the hero (lol!) slaying NPCs.
In EVE you're a stupid sucker eventually being lucky and smart
enough to have friends to play or socialize with.
*sips tea*
Where humans dictate the game, shame is inevitable.
In other MMOs players are proud of their "achievements",
come to EVE and get their candy asses kicked.
Some quit, some GROW!
Whoever plays this game for fun only doesn't last long
and not a single reader of this post can tell me, without lying,
that he never ever got his ass kicked and felt down by it,
never did something shamefully stupid,
never had to swallow his pride.
EVE is awesome!
I'd never want it any other way.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860
Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears!
And how do I put text as links into signatures?? |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 23:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
There is only 1 Goonswarm member on the CFC.
This typo is kinda hilarious. I also didn't expect the awe-inspiring Goon representative to come and grace us with his presence.
Malcanis wrote:
In short, S&I is going to become a lot more PvP.
The article basically says that Goons continue to change the game to suit what THEY think it should be, which might not actually represent you know... everyone else. Making industry more PvP is a great example of this philosophy. PvP good PvE bad. I'm not really against this honestly, I like the changes. However I don't seem to delude myself into thinking Malcanis speaks for anyone but Goonswarm, and all their annoying vocal constituents. Here in lies the issue.
CPM should represent all play styles. Right now I don't feel like it does, and the author of this article doesn't believe so as well.
You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Sibyyl
532
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 00:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
I agree, the POS changes seem to me a way to ensure that existing POSs will be attacked, come summer, and replaced to extend 0.0 rental empires.
I'm all for PVP, but it seems like rental empires create their own hisec type risk-free environments. These comfortable environments should be put to fire and purged, like everything else that is "safe" in EVE.
EVE should be safe for no one. That should be the primary development tenet, in my opinion. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
5418
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 00:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Malcanis wrote:
There is only 1 Goonswarm member on the CFC.
This typo is kinda hilarious. I also didn't expect the awe-inspiring Goon representative to come and grace us with his presence.
I personally thought it wasn't a typo, it would fit Malcanis' style rather well.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
462
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 01:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quote:There is only 1 Goonswarm member on the CFC.
Oh please....
And how many devs???
Does ANYONE in CCP understand what a "conflict in interest" is?
OP has a point and so does the link. Of course it's not twitter sized so that leaves a whole bunch of the new "Eve dumbed down" crowd out.
Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure. |
Salvos Rhoska
1187
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
I liked this part:
"-áBut having a Goon finance guy design your risk/reward system is like having Goldman Sachs design your banking regulatory system."
------------ |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
5423
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I liked this part:
"-áBut having a Goon finance guy design your risk/reward system is like having Goldman Sachs design your banking regulatory system."
Yeah, merit shouldn't matter, we should make choices based on political agreement or disagreement instead.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1187
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:---
We also should use lots of sarcasm online and be as butthurt as you are, all the time.
------------ |
Runini
SSPB
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hra Neuvosto wrote:Tollen Gallen wrote:I like Soup. Turtlesoup?
snapper soup |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
5423
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:--- We also should use lots of sarcasm online and be as butthurt as you are, all the time.
Like that quote you posted? You know the one where the guy is upset that the best qualified player to sit on the CSM for economics got elected just because he's a Goon?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1187
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Yes, I said I liked that part.
Deal with it.
"But having a Goon finance guy design your risk/reward system is like having Goldman Sachs design your banking regulatory system."
------------ |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
5423
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Yes, I said I liked that part.
Deal with it.
Then it's kinda funny if sarcasm bothers you as much as it seems to. I guess it's ok if you agree with the agenda of the person posting it though.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1187
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
"-áBut having a Goon finance guy design your risk/reward system is like having Goldman Sachs design your banking regulatory system."
------------ |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation
DemSal Unlimited
1093
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:"-áBut having a Goon finance guy design your risk/reward system is like having Goldman Sachs design your banking regulatory system."
Would you rather have someone with no education in banking ins and outs design the system? That will go over well.
Why do you assume that we all, in the CSM (not CFC, not CPM) march to the same drum, the same orders? Oh, right, because it is easier to buy into the Grr Goons are ruining everything than it is to actually try to make a difference. Easier to declare the end of industry based on a third of the new information than wait for the rest before judging. Easier to judge a person based on his affiliations than top judge him on how and what he says and does.
Works for a lot of people that way.
Doesn't mean it is the right way to do things, just seems to work for them.
Yes, some folks will throw up their hands and quit. Some claim to have done so already. This is to the advantage of the people who stay, who now own a larger share of the market. Things change or else you all would be complaining about how Eve is dying due to it becoming stagnant.
From what I have seen, Eve is ALWAYS dying. Has been since it started and it was told that their model and rules would never work. If you agree with that then you probably have come to termsd with your own mortality and the fact that you, too, are dying.
We all are.
Best we can do is try to lengthen the process. Quitting/Giving up is not part of the process
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Thomas Harding
Flaming Sideburns Social Club
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:
Easier to judge a person based on his affiliations than top judge him on how and what he says and does.
m
I would say it's fair to assume that person shares the values and goals of the organization he/she belongs. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
5428
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thomas Harding wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:
Easier to judge a person based on his affiliations than top judge him on how and what he says and does.
m
I would say it's fair to assume that person shares the values and goals of the organiztion he/she belongs.
So you are literally denying that they possess either objectivity or individuality?
Way to try and dehumanize someone.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1187
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mike, its from the blog.
I said I liked that part.
I didnt say any of the rest you have falsely inferred from that.
And no, Im not the guy who wrote the blog.
By all means, discuss the quote if you wish, but dont address me as if I was its author, or as if I had taken any of the positions you raise as allegations in your post.
------------ |
Thomas Harding
Flaming Sideburns Social Club
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Thomas Harding wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:
Easier to judge a person based on his affiliations than top judge him on how and what he says and does.
m
I would say it's fair to assume that person shares the values and goals of the organiztion he/she belongs. So you are literally denying that they possess either objectivity or individuality? Way to try and dehumanize someone.
C'mon. We (or at least I am) are talking about game here, not real life. I don't know, nor do I care, actual people behind characters. And most definitely I won't assume that the way they act or play reflects their real personality.
|
Solai
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
200
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Salvos, your quotations make that plainly obvious. But you quoted it because it resonates with you. Therefore, arguing with that misguided blurb is not so different from arguing with you.
Regardless, the quotation is worth responding to... sort of... as the reality it comes from is so distorted and non-real. Thank you Mike Azariah for the reality check.
Jolly Codgers corp - Bloodthirsty old men of Null-Sec. -á PVP and organizational excellence through maturity, for pilots age 30+. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
5428
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
Thomas Harding wrote:
C'mon. We (or at least I am) are talking about game here, not real life. I don't know, nor do I care, actual people behind characters. And most definitely I won't assume that the way they act or play reflects their real personality.
Actually, if you're talking about the CSM, you are talking about real life. Their real identities are out there, they the person is representing the playerbase to CCP.
Mynna, the real person, has the game knowledge and expertise that I want behind a redesign of the industrial system in this game.
I couldn't give two flying ****s about what his corp ticker says, if he can get the job done.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1187
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Solai wrote:Salvos, your quotations make that plainly obvious. But you quoted it because it resonates with you. Therefore, arguing with that misguided blurb is not so different from arguing with you.
Regardless, the quotation is worth responding to... sort of... as the reality it comes from is so distorted and non-real. Thank you Mike Azariah for the reality check.
Bullshit.
And that is ironically exacrly the same kind of top-down false assumption and judgment of a person that Mike talked about, and then actually became guilty of himself by addressing me as if I was the blogs author.
I said I liked that part. Everything else you or he has falsely inferred from that, is assumption, and infact, false, and not a representation, whatsoever, of myself.
------------ |
Thomas Harding
Flaming Sideburns Social Club
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 04:33:00 -
[53] - Quote
Quote:Actually, if you're talking about the CSM, you are talking about real life. Their real identities are out there, they the person is representing the playerbase to CCP.
I was talking more in general.
Quote:Mynna, the real person, has the game knowledge and expertise that I want behind a redesign of the industrial system in this game.
I agree about Myanna's knowlegde and expertise, but I'm not going to say anything about redesing before I see rest of the dev blogs. And that's not to be read for anything else than that there's just not enough info out yet for me form an opinion if they are going to be good or bad changes.
Quote:I couldn't give two flying ****s about what his corp ticker says, if he can get the job done.
Of course. If.
|
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation
DemSal Unlimited
1096
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 05:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
I respond to ideas. Bad ones I tend to try to dispute. Pretty built in reaction at this point in my life.
If this came across as an attack on a specific author (or worse a person quoting another author) then I apologize for being guilty of shooting the messenger. It was never my intent to do that.
There are lots of ways to consider the industry changes and each causes its own reaction.
'What is in it for me' (and mine) is one way and what is often attributed (incorrectly) to be the thought process of the Goon, Mynnna (note, please, three n's)
'What is in it for the game as a whole.' A position I would like to think that both CCP and CSM strive to maintain.
'What is in it for them' This is the conspiracy theorists baliwick.
Only a few are purely in one camp or another. We shade between these orbits of a complex three-body problem.
Please note I ignored the vast population of 'Who cares, as long as I can buy ammo and ships'.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Salvos Rhoska
1187
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 05:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:If this came across as an attack on a specific author (or worse a person quoting another author) then I apologize for being guilty of shooting the messenger. It was never my intent to do that.
Accepted and thank you.
------------ |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics
CODE.
1723
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 05:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:
Please note I ignored the vast population of 'Who cares, as long as I can buy ammo and ships'.
Who cares, as long as I can buy ammo and ships! (couldn't resist)
I've always found the cognitive dissonance around the CSM to be kind of funny. I keep seeing that on one side, CSM has utterly no power, they're totally worthless, who cares, don't even bother to vote.
Except when Goons are involved (Goons are always involved). Then, the CSM shadow government has enough power to change CCPs entire business model, and twist entire huge blocks of the game (for the Goons benefit).
It all depends on what the tinfoil wearer is ranting about at that moment. The bad idea they throw out gets shot down and ignored, the CSM is a worthless appendage. The game change that impact's said tin-foiler in a perceived negative way, the CSM is a ruthless shadow cabal bossing CCPs CEO around at blaster point.
Anyway, Mike and the rest of ya'll CSMs, I think you've done a decent enough job. Some screwups, some good stuff. I've seen CSMs do worse in the past.
The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
DaReaper
Net 7
The Last Brigade
423
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 05:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm just going to make a note. These articals, which i did not read cause this gets a TL;DGAFF (Don;t Give A Flying ****) for some reason seem to think that the CSM/CPM have way more power then they do.
The CSM/CPM does't dictate crap to ccp. It honestly doens;t matter a drop of spit if the CSM is all Goons or all BoB, or random nobodies. The CSM acts as the advisers to CCP. CCP goes 'hey we want to make this change we think it will be cool' and the CSM goes 'wait what? thats crap! you will have a revolt on yoru hands' CCP can either take the advice of the CSM and modify or kill there project, or they cna laugh and say 'yea no thanks but we will ignore that advice now'
The CSM/CPM doesn;t own CCP. So seriously, why do people think that if the CSM is all goons that then goons 'control all of CCP's plans' Its completely asinine.
Now, why people sit here and say that people leaving CCP means doom and gloom is beyond me. CCP is a company, people come and go for a varitiy of reasons, yes because the 'ship is sinking' can be one of the reasons, but more often then not its for other issues/choices. Also because CCP doesn't comment, again doesn't really mean anything. I don;t rememebr a big hoopla when Nathan left CCP. Hells i did not even know he left till last year when i wondered 'why have i not seen any post form Ovure." The point is, we as players are mearly speculating. We have no power except whatever CCP choses to give us (the CSM) and whatever we can muster with our wallets. If CCP wants to.. oh idk, turn EvE into a WoW clone tomorrow, nothing you can say or do will change that.
Anyway i'm ranting. And as a 10 yera vet, its my right. Just like with the us political system i'll leave you with this: If you think the CSM is doing a horrible job, or is corrupted by Goons/BoB/Red Alliance/Crack heads then get off your lazy ass and either run next year or gather as many player as you can and vote the bums out. Otherwise you are part of your perceived problem. |
Tweek Etimua
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 06:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Saw this on Reddit. Posting here: http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/only-you-can-save-universe-ccp-seagull_26.htmlEDIT: Since no one can be bothered to read the article posted, it goes over how non-representative CPM members can be and how the majority of non-Goon players can look at the long line of Goon representation as something bad for the games overall health. Is that good enough for all the lazy people out there? EDIT: Read the damn article if you want to comment.
Although the article has some good points, Goons are not 100% the problem. They are 50% the problem. The other 50% is the rest of eve. If you learn any thing from the forums it's that eve is filled with peolpe who think trolling/stupidity makes them awesome. Which is why people who actually care about participating in intelliget conversation get absolutely no where on the forums.
This ignorance bleeds into the game. People arnt interested in playing smart there are only a hand full of people that actually theory craft, develop strategy and actually bring "new" content to the game. The rest of eve are leeches. The truth is that lazzyness births dictators. If eve thinks that X corp is bad, kill em. Truth is all the rival aliances are also fat and happy. Thats why goons laugh at the rest of eve, they know no one has the motivation for the level of work it would take to rally other alliances to even contest with them.
The real reason why these "vets" are leaving is 'cause eve hates any one who wants to do things differently. "You want to have all the alliances to gang up on goons? That's stupid." and thats pretty much the only responce frome 90% of Eve payers. "New idea, Dats dum." There's 0 room for inginuity, the only types of high sec pvp you get are RvB or burn jita. Low sec is faction warfare or gate camps. Null is one big RTS. And wormholes are a mysteriuos cage for arrogant beasts.
CCP isnt entirly helpful either. With hyprocritical rules that punish "troll" threads but clearly troll posts like many in this thread are ok. Among others. But it doesn't matter at the end of the day the neanderthals get the free lunch and smart kids get shoved in the locker. So unless a group of people set out to actualy change Eve, it's never going to. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5307
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 06:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
In general, I'm still reserving judgment until all the official info is out. I won't be preemptively deleting accts or pretending I know what is coming before it comes.
I do have an observation, though. Of the six people in this thread that actually read the article, there are six different interpretations of the same words that each of them read.
The day may come when people put their bias on the shelf before reading something EVE related, but that day is not today. 2+2 equals anywhere from one to eight with you people. Pick a blog and six random forum regulars and I can give you a sealed envelope saying exactly what each of them will post after reading the same facts and twisting them to their own agenda.
Mr Amazing Kreskin 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2806
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 07:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
And so it continues.
It appears from the posts I have read that I will have to start sharing my tinfoil, based on the cartel propagandists' comments in this thread.
You know CCP, when more and more of the player base starts posting in threads like this, and do my job of sounding the alarm bell, you might want to consider stop listening to the Malcanis', Mike's, and mynnna's of the gaming community, and start listening to, I dunno, accountants?
Or are you too far gone, and so wrapped up in the cult of "null sec is the panacea of everything" to recognize what is happening?
Of course, I am just some complete nutbar, with zero credibility , even though I have played all aspects of this game, save two.
I have not played FW , nor I have I played RMT lord.
But what do I know about Eve, and apparently a legion of like-minded people?
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning.
The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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