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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
R31D
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Posted - 2006.05.20 09:09:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu
T1 industry in safe empire space has been killed by the morons who consider self-mined ore as 'free', and sell the stuff below cost.
QFT
theres a lot of mathematically challenged people about.
It doesn't help that most low-end named items (in their repective mission running areas) can be found on the market much cheaper than t1 (why people don't refine and sell I dunno as they'd make more money and it's not exactly harder)
Free bumpage for all |
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wystler
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Posted - 2006.05.20 11:08:00 -
[32]
Why not buy those goods priced at under mineral cost, all of them, and sell them on at a higher price? 
Its probably people who get them as mission reward and just want rid of them that sell them for such a price 
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2006.05.20 11:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: wystler
Why not buy those goods priced at under mineral cost, all of them, and sell them on at a higher price?
Its probably people who get them as mission reward and just want rid of them that sell them for such a price
Oh noes! You have exposed my secret!
-=====-
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Cesisse
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Posted - 2006.05.20 11:28:00 -
[34]
Find a region that is undersupplied, and has high prices for any given set of mods or ships.
Make a home there. Set up trade relations with miners. Produce goods for set of items mentioned above. Sell them at profit. It's not that hard to do.
People make trips to market hubs to restock due to price gouging in low sec regions. Thats where the industrialists have opportunity.
Also, if you live ina low security region, being bale to produce your wom t1 mods etc for replacing attrition losses is quite time saving and well worth the costs of the bpo's.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.20 11:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MysticNZ
Originally by: wystler
Why not buy those goods priced at under mineral cost, all of them, and sell them on at a higher price?
Its probably people who get them as mission reward and just want rid of them that sell them for such a price
Oh noes! You have exposed my secret!
No use TBH. Somebody will sell them at 10k when the item can sell for 500k. T1s grow on trees.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.05.20 11:46:00 -
[36]
Tech 1 is way more broken than Tech 2. In Tech 1 there is absolutely no difference between a dedicated manufacturer with a 2 mil sp pvp alt and a dedicated pvp'er with a 2 mil sp manufacturing alt. They can both do the exact same thing.
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Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.05.20 13:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: wystler
Why not buy those goods priced at under mineral cost, all of them, and sell them on at a higher price?
Its probably people who get them as mission reward and just want rid of them that sell them for such a price
This does only work as long as you got trade slots for orders left.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Eriv Kendri
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Posted - 2006.05.20 14:04:00 -
[38]
Hopefully with the new salvage rules, EvE will be moving away from mostly NPC built mods (ie loot) and more towards EvE's goal as a completley player driven game.
Who is making all those NPC mods anyways - maybe Pirate and other Security Factions need to start buying T1 gear and ships - not sure on the implementation as the NPC buy/sell market is highly unrealistic atm - but it would definelty liven up the T1 market across the board and create new professions.
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Draquin
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Posted - 2006.05.20 16:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: wystler
Why not buy those goods priced at under mineral cost, all of them, and sell them on at a higher price?
Its probably people who get them as mission reward and just want rid of them that sell them for such a price
This does only work as long as you got trade slots for orders left.
and a nice wad of cash to pick up all of that stuff, all of this is partly compounded by the real movment of people in the game, and right now I seem keep bumping into a point where I can find a shortage of an Item, and by the time I get my BPO back from MR the market is saturated for that item and Im able to buy them and scrap them for materials for a quick sale of the minerals at under the so called base line and still make a slight profit.
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Irealyneedtoburnoffthat12packofredbullIjustdrankinonesetting
If your too paranoid to play Eve, your not paranoid enough to play Eve |
Gannymeade
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Posted - 2006.05.20 17:09:00 -
[40]
I find the complaints rather shortsighted. I've been a dedicated producer for a long time now, and my profits are steady. I'm sitting on approximately 1 billion ISK in assets (ISK, BPOs, inventory, escrow, etc...) of which 95% was made purely through the T1 market. At this time, the only thing limiting my profits is the amount of max open orders I have.
What I find in nearly all the complaints here is a total lack of understanding of capitalist economics, sprinkled with a heavy dose of impatience. Being a market supplier requires a study of the market...if you find you're not making a profit, I guarantee you that you're either selling the wrong thing, seling in the wrong place, or selling at the wrong time. You can't just set up show wherever you feel like it and expect people to flock to you...you actually have to take the time to find the market you want to exploit and then adjust your tactics as competitive opportunists try to muscle you out with lower margins.
The only tip I'll share here that I find the most effective in dealing with the EVE economy is to be patient. Buy and Sell orders both often work their way through the system past the limited attention span of your competitors. Eventually, they'll run out of inventory and your margins will once again feed your coffers. Of course, you have to ask yourself...are you willing to wait? If not, consider lowering your margins. Are you Macy's or are you WalMart?
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.05.20 17:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu
T1 industry in safe empire space has been killed by the morons who consider self-mined ore as 'free', and sell the stuff below cost.
That's not killed at all, that's just people who love manufacturing sticking it to people who expect others to do all the work and turn a quick profit from just running some factories/orders...
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Torze
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Posted - 2006.05.20 17:34:00 -
[42]
I'm not sure what T1 items the OP is/was building but, on some items I can make as much as 250% (that is not a typo). You just have to use the market information to figure out what people want and how many are supplying. I was selling some stuff that cost 13k for me to make for as much as 45k and was selling 300 a week. Eventually, other people moved in and there was a price war. That's when you need to find a new market for said item.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2006.05.20 17:50:00 -
[43]
Go produce tech 1 goods in 0.0
I sell vexors for 7mil isk regularly ;-)
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Jennai
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Posted - 2006.05.20 18:41:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Arlenik Emmanouelik
Mind sharing some of your tech1 industry secrets with us please? are you talking 500mil per month in T1 in profits? or 500mil revenue? To bring up my vexor example again, thats about 225mil in revenue, but only about 30mil in profits.
you can easily make over 1b/month profit by building BS with PE5, but even when I built modules with PE4 I still made several hundred million a month (it was a long time ago and I don't have exact numbers).
frigates and cruisers have crap margin and generally aren't worth building, and anything that drops from local NPCs will probably be below mineral cost most of the time.
if you live in oursulaert and try to sell armor hardeners, 1600 plates, and 350 rails, you're not going to make anything because serpentis drop all those constantly. swap those for various other modules (no I'm not going to tell you which ones) and you go from no profit to a decent amount.
I also have a T2 ammo bpo (small pulse laser) that makes very little money because they build faster than they sell, and everyone's sitting on a stack of hundreds and constantly undercutting.
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macro hunters - join channel MacroIntel
macro miner killboard: www.anti-macro.com |
Macdeth
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Posted - 2006.05.20 19:17:00 -
[45]
People who say there's no profit in T1 fail to consider that a 5-10% profit margin on several billions of daily sales volume is an awful lot.
I can lay a decent claim to having made Jita 4-4-CNAP the trade hub that it is today, mostly just by buying (& selling) tons of minerals, ores, and ice/ice products there for over a year, and selling several tens of battleships (in addition to oodles of BCs, cruisers, and such) there daily for months on end for maybe 3-8m profit each, starting at a time when two other stations in system were way busier. With NWO, I also made buy & sell orders for every moon mineral and basic/advanced material in an attempt to make that station the t2 trade hub to replace Yulai, mostly because I was too lazy to haul our moon mining stuff anywhere else... Anyway, it seems to have worked.
Of course, once I lost my monopoly on about 25 of that station's factory slots with RMR, I went away to somewhere quieter because queues suck and I finally got sick of undercutting people every five minutes. I know for a fact that one of the other two huge volume T1 producers in Jita bailed at the same time I did, though I'm sure we've both been replaced several times over by smaller volume players.
I have a long essay-type-thing I've worked on a speck but keep deleting, discussing how there's now little incentive for people, post-RMR to even attempt to make new empire trade hubs since the megaproducers who are capable of creating them nearly singlehandedly will simply be driven out by their own success (factory queues from other producers wasting slots for days on things like shuttles, nanofibers, etc) without reaping the huge profits I used to pull out of Jita as a reward, but I don't care enough to put the time in to avoid it looking like a big whinefest. For all I know, my difficulties come from that being all that it is... =)
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Draquin
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Posted - 2006.05.20 21:44:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Gannymeade
. . . I've been a dedicated producer for a long time now, and my profits are steady. . .
And here in lies the big catch. you have to be in the game building up an inventory of fully R&Ded BPOs to be able to cover any shifts in the game economy, and right now that takes time to do.
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Irealyneedtoburnoffthat12packofredbullIjustdrankinonesetting
If your too paranoid to play Eve, your not paranoid enough to play Eve |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.05.20 21:59:00 -
[47]
I agree with Avon . Bpcs killed a lot of the t1 economy.
However I do ok in the t1 market. There is a living to be made. As with everything it takes a little looking out side the box.
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Doisho
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Posted - 2006.05.20 21:59:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Draquin
And here in lies the big catch. you have to be in the game building up an inventory of fully R&Ded BPOs to be able to cover any shifts in the game economy, and right now that takes time to do.
My BPOs aren't fully R&Ded...in fact, very few of them even have 1 or more M.E. The cost savings for the production of most modules isn't worth the investment of time and R&D costs to pay for any significant M.E. level.
No, once again, the myth plays larger than the reality.
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neccette
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Posted - 2006.05.20 22:20:00 -
[49]
Maybe people need to look outside the market hubs. Prices in those areas will be depressed because the sheer amount of people who live there and the massive production going on there. I remember back when I started, I found out that I could buy 250mm artillery in Ours for 15k each, take them 2 jumps(at the time) to Scolluzer and sell them for 50k each. that is a nice little profit, but I could have made even more cash by building them myself so I did just that and started a production account.
While stuff may sell faster in the market hubs, and you may make more in quantity, it's better to spread your products around 2 or 3 systems (regions are even better) and mark it up a bit to get those people who do not want to fly further away and will pay more for an item if it is available locally.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2006.05.20 22:21:00 -
[50]
The only sort of ladder that is desirable between the markets is one that can be climbed socially.
Otherwise it just gets grinded down to the same non-interdependent level of self employment that plagues the tech1 market. Tech 1 is just a trainer market to see how that end of the game might work. There's lots of non-grindy down time in those professions so you have time to build up your connections and work on your websites and such until you become a genuine middleman providing both products and services.
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Beringe
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Posted - 2006.05.20 22:40:00 -
[51]
The t1 market is fine, except for the BPCs. Profit margins would be better without them...however, that is not counting the profit gotten from selling those BPCs.
It's real competition, and it takes smarts and dedication to do well (as it should be).
In comparison, the t2 market is horribly broken, without any sort of competitive pricing and total lack of supply.
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"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Lygos
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Posted - 2006.05.20 23:25:00 -
[52]
Well, it hypercompetition, not healthy competition.
Usually there are additional burdens placed on transaction costs for the buyers and sellers. Here, there is no disincentive for any party to hub. It's not like travelling an extra three miles to go to the rival grocery chain. Also, there are no less-tangible perks for buying at a premium from the small town shop than the large chain.
EVE has a slight problem of too much information and not enough dynamically generated roadblocks. A fluxuating sales tax that was coded to target hubs would work seamlessly at increasing the breadth of the market, while at the same time making it more difficult for sellers to track the sales adjustments of their merchandise.
The situation you are observing currently is that only two sellers are needed to drive the commodity below the practical industry profit margin. Thus many goods go for less than mineral value. Now of course it can only drop so much lower before a reseller or refiner can pick it up without incurring too much market sales tax penalty. The solution that can come from the players of course is war predicated on underbidding, and of course cartelism. We see entirely too little of both of those things.
Maybe EVE need some conscientous Mercs to offer carefully priced contracts for harrassing rival seller groups. Bigger orgs could just dedicate small detachments for such harassment missions.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.05.21 00:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Avon
Reselling works so long as you have the capital, will, and logistics.
It is perfectly possible to completely control prices of selected modules.
Trust me.
Believe what he is saying.
Take his advice.
But for the love of all that is holy...don't ever, Ever TRUST Avon.
Especially if he has an outpost in Nonni that he wants to sell you. Or jumpgates.
Nyxus
Once he presses "activate F1", Mr Titan is no longer your friend. |
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