EVE Search - To those who rave about secure containers

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kushy	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:28:00 - [1] Edited by: Kushy on 22/09/2003 00:33:49 Have you ever actually tried a large scale mining op in something bigger than an imicus? I doubt it. Just look at the information: The biggest secure can (do these even work yet?) has a cargo capacity of 3900. They cost something like 150k ISK. Scordite is the most commonly mined high sec ore, with a volume of 0.15. Said cargo canister can hold ~26000 scordite. My buddy and I run a mining op, and pull in approx 7000 Scordite per minute. 26000/7000 = 3.71. In other words, we would fill the best secure can at a rate of once every 3.71 minutes. Thats only 2 people. When a bunch of us get together, im sure we could manage to fill an entire can in less than 1 minute. An average belt with an average alotment of ore being mined on an average basis usually contains approx 800k - 1.2mil scordite. What does all this mean? In order to use secure cans effectively you would need several cans (more then several, usually. try about 20 of them.) This is unfeasable when they cost around 150k. To use secure cans somebody has to haul full time. in my usual two-man group, that cuts profits by 50%. asteroids pop so fast that you would only be able to use a giant can about 10 times before you move out of range. If you somehow managed to hit the whole belt from within ~1500 meters of the can, you would only get 38 loads before having to scoop it and move it. Now figure that you would have to use several cans to even come close to being efficient; you would have to spend at least an hour scooping, warping, deploying, and anchoring cans before you could even start. I dont really have anything against ore thieves. Like they say, its a living. However, i dont agree that we should be forced to use secure cans or just get screwed. There needs to be a means in which we can defend our investments, secure can or no. (No, suicide-kestrels is not a means of defense ). Ways to make the situation better for everybody could include: 1) Increase the size of secure containers to that of a reasonably outfitted industrial ship (say 10k) but dont let them be scooped into a hold if they have anything in them (eliminates people from exploiting them in order to vastly enlarge thier cargo). 2) Make unsecure cans last 6-8 hours, and introduce 2 new skills. Something along the lines of (just making suggestions here) Locking Mechanisms and Hacking. Allow us to use the first skill to secure our cans and make it harder for someone to 'hack' them. It would work something like this: If a player has a locking skill higher than another players hacking skill, that player cannot hack the lock. if a player has equal skill with the individual trying to hack the can, the hack can be successful. a base time of 2 minutes (?) per skill level would be needed to hack the can. for instance: Player A has lvl 3 locking skill, while Player B has lvl 5 hacking skill. It would take him 9 minutes to **** the can (time check begins when levels are equal).* this gives a player with a high locking skill enough time to at least save some of his can. It also allows an ore thief with high skill to easily rob those who dont bother with the skill, and still have a decent chance at those who do (unless they play smart and haul often). 3) Make an option on an ejected can to set said can to private. If another player removes an item from the can it would then be considered stealing (read: offensive action), because the can is both in thier name and obviosly it was not meant to be taken because it was flagged as private. This would allow the miner to retaliate against the thief, instead of being left helpless as usual. (I think this should be applied in all 3 possible fixes, honestly) 4) Fix baby roids and make staking out one belt to mine in for a goodly period of time (as in weeks) feasible. This should go with the can-enlargment fix. This is probably a little biased, because I am definately not a can thief, nor do I condone thier actions. However, as it stands, they have simply too much power over serious miners. A few weeks ago I wouldnt have bothered even looking at this situation, but after a the last few days my views have changed. The feeling of pure helplessness while being 'can *****d' is almost unbearable. There needs to be a way to at least fight back. That, or make secure cans useful. Just my 2 coppers, let the flame-fest begin. EDIT: spelling errors and such
Kushy Gallente EXTREME TEAM	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:28:00 - [2] Edited by: Kushy on 22/09/2003 00:33:49 Have you ever actually tried a large scale mining op in something bigger than an imicus? I doubt it. Just look at the information: The biggest secure can (do these even work yet?) has a cargo capacity of 3900. They cost something like 150k ISK. Scordite is the most commonly mined high sec ore, with a volume of 0.15. Said cargo canister can hold ~26000 scordite. My buddy and I run a mining op, and pull in approx 7000 Scordite per minute. 26000/7000 = 3.71. In other words, we would fill the best secure can at a rate of once every 3.71 minutes. Thats only 2 people. When a bunch of us get together, im sure we could manage to fill an entire can in less than 1 minute. An average belt with an average alotment of ore being mined on an average basis usually contains approx 800k - 1.2mil scordite. What does all this mean? In order to use secure cans effectively you would need several cans (more then several, usually. try about 20 of them.) This is unfeasable when they cost around 150k. To use secure cans somebody has to haul full time. in my usual two-man group, that cuts profits by 50%. asteroids pop so fast that you would only be able to use a giant can about 10 times before you move out of range. If you somehow managed to hit the whole belt from within ~1500 meters of the can, you would only get 38 loads before having to scoop it and move it. Now figure that you would have to use several cans to even come close to being efficient; you would have to spend at least an hour scooping, warping, deploying, and anchoring cans before you could even start. I dont really have anything against ore thieves. Like they say, its a living. However, i dont agree that we should be forced to use secure cans or just get screwed. There needs to be a means in which we can defend our investments, secure can or no. (No, suicide-kestrels is not a means of defense ). Ways to make the situation better for everybody could include: 1) Increase the size of secure containers to that of a reasonably outfitted industrial ship (say 10k) but dont let them be scooped into a hold if they have anything in them (eliminates people from exploiting them in order to vastly enlarge thier cargo). 2) Make unsecure cans last 6-8 hours, and introduce 2 new skills. Something along the lines of (just making suggestions here) Locking Mechanisms and Hacking. Allow us to use the first skill to secure our cans and make it harder for someone to 'hack' them. It would work something like this: If a player has a locking skill higher than another players hacking skill, that player cannot hack the lock. if a player has equal skill with the individual trying to hack the can, the hack can be successful. a base time of 2 minutes (?) per skill level would be needed to hack the can. for instance: Player A has lvl 3 locking skill, while Player B has lvl 5 hacking skill. It would take him 9 minutes to **** the can (time check begins when levels are equal).* this gives a player with a high locking skill enough time to at least save some of his can. It also allows an ore thief with high skill to easily rob those who dont bother with the skill, and still have a decent chance at those who do (unless they play smart and haul often). 3) Make an option on an ejected can to set said can to private. If another player removes an item from the can it would then be considered stealing (read: offensive action), because the can is both in thier name and obviosly it was not meant to be taken because it was flagged as private. This would allow the miner to retaliate against the thief, instead of being left helpless as usual. (I think this should be applied in all 3 possible fixes, honestly) 4) Fix baby roids and make staking out one belt to mine in for a goodly period of time (as in weeks) feasible. This should go with the can-enlargment fix. This is probably a little biased, because I am definately not a can thief, nor do I condone thier actions. However, as it stands, they have simply too much power over serious miners. A few weeks ago I wouldnt have bothered even looking at this situation, but after a the last few days my views have changed. The feeling of pure helplessness while being 'can *****d' is almost unbearable. There needs to be a way to at least fight back. That, or make secure cans useful. Just my 2 coppers, let the flame-fest begin. EDIT: spelling errors and such
sim2killa	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:33:00 - [3] i dont care for them either. so dont use them and if someone steals ur ore dont go complaing to a gm because they wont give a ****
sim2killa	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:33:00 - [4] i dont care for them either. so dont use them and if someone steals ur ore dont go complaing to a gm because they wont give a ****
Fang	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:44:00 - [5] I use 10+ Huge Secure cans 17 jumps from the nearest station to mine Bistot. I also haul my own ore back to the station for refining. I can get 121 Bistot in to each can. Takes me a couple of hours or so to fill all the cans then another hour or two to haul it. These cans have really made it possible for me to mine and haul solo. I like them the way that they are and feel they dont need any major changes. Fang
Fang Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:44:00 - [6] I use 10+ Huge Secure cans 17 jumps from the nearest station to mine Bistot. I also haul my own ore back to the station for refining. I can get 121 Bistot in to each can. Takes me a couple of hours or so to fill all the cans then another hour or two to haul it. These cans have really made it possible for me to mine and haul solo. I like them the way that they are and feel they dont need any major changes. Fang
Kushy	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:54:00 - [7] Because your a solo miner :) i was talking about larger scale mining ops. Cheers.
Kushy Gallente EXTREME TEAM	Posted - 2003.09.22 00:54:00 - [8] Because your a solo miner :) i was talking about larger scale mining ops. Cheers.
Zinke	Posted - 2003.09.22 01:22:00 - [9] For large scale mining of course that you will need lots of gaint secure containers. And the best way is just to spread them out across the belt and to use multiple indy drivers to haul.
Zinke Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2003.09.22 01:22:00 - [10] For large scale mining of course that you will need lots of gaint secure containers. And the best way is just to spread them out across the belt and to use multiple indy drivers to haul.
Demangel	Posted - 2003.09.22 01:57:00 - [11] Well I look at it this way... Most of the people who are victims of Ore can thieves don't seem to travel much at all... I REGULARLY (as in sometimes daily), mine in empire space solo with big huge loads of nice minerals, and have never needed a secure can. How do I do it? I go to places the fewest people tend to hang out. If your mining in Yulai, or luminaire or something your really just making more work for yourself... Not sure about 0.0 miners though, The few times I've been on group mining ops to 0.0, we didn't see another player for hours... And if someone came within range of our guns while mining and didn't respond to our hails to leave the belt, we would have shot them dead with no security loss. With security loss being possible in the future, it would still be less than in empire space... but I think my point is... A lot of people are relying TOO MUCH on secure cans to save them the worry of risking thier precious megathron or thier ore in .4 space for example. Anyway It's different everywhere you go... Some .4 systems are bustling with corp activity, and some are largely unvisited. The funny thing is, you don't even have to go very far from the beaten track to find these empty systems with HUGE quantities of decent ore... Like one or two jumps off common travel routs, and bang, ghost town. Try it sometime, you might not worry so much about secure cans if you do it once it twice... I mean lets face it, most Ore thieves, only ply thier trade where they know the profit is, or where they can annoy the most people... If you don't hang around the large groups, you will run into fewer ore thieves... I have yet to see a single one actually heheh. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Demangel Gallente	Posted - 2003.09.22 01:57:00 - [12] Well I look at it this way... Most of the people who are victims of Ore can thieves don't seem to travel much at all... I REGULARLY (as in sometimes daily), mine in empire space solo with big huge loads of nice minerals, and have never needed a secure can. How do I do it? I go to places the fewest people tend to hang out. If your mining in Yulai, or luminaire or something your really just making more work for yourself... Not sure about 0.0 miners though, The few times I've been on group mining ops to 0.0, we didn't see another player for hours... And if someone came within range of our guns while mining and didn't respond to our hails to leave the belt, we would have shot them dead with no security loss. With security loss being possible in the future, it would still be less than in empire space... but I think my point is... A lot of people are relying TOO MUCH on secure cans to save them the worry of risking thier precious megathron or thier ore in .4 space for example. Anyway It's different everywhere you go... Some .4 systems are bustling with corp activity, and some are largely unvisited. The funny thing is, you don't even have to go very far from the beaten track to find these empty systems with HUGE quantities of decent ore... Like one or two jumps off common travel routs, and bang, ghost town. Try it sometime, you might not worry so much about secure cans if you do it once it twice... I mean lets face it, most Ore thieves, only ply thier trade where they know the profit is, or where they can annoy the most people... If you don't hang around the large groups, you will run into fewer ore thieves... I have yet to see a single one actually heheh. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Georg Inekn	Posted - 2003.09.22 04:27:00 - [13] How about we just petition for a mining laser that moves the ore right to your hangar?
Georg Inekn	Posted - 2003.09.22 04:27:00 - [14] How about we just petition for a mining laser that moves the ore right to your hangar?
Scrapyard Jack	Posted - 2003.09.22 05:27:00 - [15] ehehehe! Scrapyard Jack is an ore thief and general nasty-pasty. cognito ergo yoink = I think, therefore I burgle. ehehehe! Secure Containers need work; they'd be better if you had to carry 'em flatpacked (can't store things in 'em 'til they're anchored in space) an' only weigh 1/10th of their volume while "flatpacked". i.e. a 100k capacity secure container can be carried in a 10k capacity indy, but is useless 'til it's "anchored" in space .. corpmates can then use it as a mining "dump" They should also have their hp drastically lowered to the point that shooting them is a real possiblity, though shooting a secure can should be an offense in 0.5+ systems (vandalism! ehehehe!) and concord-zappable. There should also be a skill designed to "open" secure cans (criminal offence if failed) The cans themselves should be very expensive and somewhat vulnerable (shootable/hackable) hence the need to protect them with sentry guns in non-regulated space. ehehehe!
Scrapyard Jack	Posted - 2003.09.22 05:27:00 - [16] ehehehe! Scrapyard Jack is an ore thief and general nasty-pasty. cognito ergo yoink = I think, therefore I burgle. ehehehe! Secure Containers need work; they'd be better if you had to carry 'em flatpacked (can't store things in 'em 'til they're anchored in space) an' only weigh 1/10th of their volume while "flatpacked". i.e. a 100k capacity secure container can be carried in a 10k capacity indy, but is useless 'til it's "anchored" in space .. corpmates can then use it as a mining "dump" They should also have their hp drastically lowered to the point that shooting them is a real possiblity, though shooting a secure can should be an offense in 0.5+ systems (vandalism! ehehehe!) and concord-zappable. There should also be a skill designed to "open" secure cans (criminal offence if failed) The cans themselves should be very expensive and somewhat vulnerable (shootable/hackable) hence the need to protect them with sentry guns in non-regulated space. ehehehe!
Singular	Posted - 2003.09.22 05:35:00 - [17] Thanx for your ultra-ghey Scordite mining experience there lol. Im Yo Huckleberreh
Singular Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.09.22 05:35:00 - [18] Thanx for your ultra-ghey Scordite mining experience there lol. Im Yo Huckleberreh
Snoop	Posted - 2003.09.22 05:43:00 - [19] i find them pretty much uselss there should be a secure container that hold's 20k and is assembled in part's each part waying 5k.. i can mine 3900 m3 in a few minutes on my own
Snoop Gallente Babylon.	Posted - 2003.09.22 05:43:00 - [20] i find them pretty much uselss there should be a secure container that hold's 20k and is assembled in part's each part waying 5k.. i can mine 3900 m3 in a few minutes on my own
Other Minion	Posted - 2003.09.22 06:09:00 - [21] This is why we need mobile reifnerys that don't nerf so much outa your refine. They will allow large scale deep space mining ops to refine on site and store the minerals and equipment in Some Huge containers. Also mobile docking bays would allow them to set up camp.
Other Minion Intoxicated Endeavors Inc.	Posted - 2003.09.22 06:09:00 - [22] This is why we need mobile reifnerys that don't nerf so much outa your refine. They will allow large scale deep space mining ops to refine on site and store the minerals and equipment in Some Huge containers. Also mobile docking bays would allow them to set up camp.
Deathwing	Posted - 2003.09.22 07:32:00 - [23] I agree, secure containers are lame ffs i can fill a normal can in under 40mins mining by myself <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
Deathwing Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.09.22 07:32:00 - [24] I agree, secure containers are lame ffs i can fill a normal can in under 40mins mining by myself <Stavros> A MAN DRESSED AS SPIDERMAN KICKED MY ASS
rocknic	Posted - 2003.09.22 07:53:00 - [25] Edited by: rocknic on 22/09/2003 07:53:28 edit for n00b comment sorry. why not just take it back to a station and store it there?
rocknic	Posted - 2003.09.22 07:53:00 - [26] Edited by: rocknic on 22/09/2003 07:53:28 edit for n00b comment sorry. why not just take it back to a station and store it there?
Claus	Posted - 2003.09.22 08:03:00 - [27] What makes the secure cans even less useful is that you can't drag partial piles of ore to them. If you try to drag more ore into them that there is room for, then the drag just fails. With normal cans a dialog pops up where you can specify how much to add to the can (defaulted to whatever there is room for). Considering how fast the secure cans fill up, it is a real pain trying to get the maximum amount of ore into them. ------------- You have to go out of your mind from time to time to stay sane.
Claus Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2003.09.22 08:03:00 - [28] What makes the secure cans even less useful is that you can't drag partial piles of ore to them. If you try to drag more ore into them that there is room for, then the drag just fails. With normal cans a dialog pops up where you can specify how much to add to the can (defaulted to whatever there is room for). Considering how fast the secure cans fill up, it is a real pain trying to get the maximum amount of ore into them. ------------- You have to go out of your mind from time to time to stay sane.
Ashton Black	Posted - 2003.09.22 08:06:00 - [29] Edited by: Ashton Black on 22/09/2003 08:07:43 because we are talking about group mining where there is a constant shuttle run to the nearest station anyway. Claus - Shift and drag the ore in.. It then brings up the maximumm you can fit in as the maxiumun you can move.
Ashton Black Caldari Black Research	Posted - 2003.09.22 08:06:00 - [30] Edited by: Ashton Black on 22/09/2003 08:07:43 because we are talking about group mining where there is a constant shuttle run to the nearest station anyway. Claus - Shift and drag the ore in.. It then brings up the maximumm you can fit in as the maxiumun you can move.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.