As mentioned in this previous devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/building-better-worlds/

We are removing the slots and introducing a cost scaling system instead. The next devblog will cover that in more detail.

So many blogs because so many changes

the dropoff in value of ME after 20 was so severe that only fools researched anything besides capital component bpos over that

Ah no it doesn't, but the stations that do have copy facilities will no longer be capped. Yes you may need to do some flying around.

No no no no no.

The copy time buff (if I'm reading this correctly) will be absurdly powerful for T2 BPO owners. Powerful enough to the point that invention will be worthless. We're talking about producing 100 copies in the time it previously took to produce one.

i might be missing some stations as I don't research in highsec but I'm not aware of any station type that has one of (me/pe/copying) and not the other two. I think only the advanced lab pos mod is the only way to research that's missing one (TE).

and I think you can invent anywhere you can research

Weaselior already made an informative post around the T2 BPO issue. I would just like to make sure you guys notice it because you aren't thinking about that 6% correctly.

I would like to join the idea of rewarding people with ME/PE lvls above new max - we invested great time, effort and resourced to manage that, we deserve some kind of compensation. The idea of some kind of tokens that we could possible receive as compensation to shorten research time of other BPOs seems like a good idea for example.

I do wish we were more public sometimes around what we do to the economy as I think it would draw a totally new type of player in. Then the paranoia kicks in. Ah well.

Oh. Yeah, good point. In the cases where extra materials exist, some blueprints will their "perfect" point, yes.

Ah no it doesn't, but the stations that do have copy facilities will no longer be capped. Yes you may need to do some flying around.

And? What's the problem with that?

Any chance of making adjustments to the large list of items that are not worth doing invention on because the stats are not better than cheap and plentiful T1 named variants?

I feel like there should be a general assumption that if someone is going to do the work to invent an item they will be rewarded with an item that is worth the effort.

Copying Times

In order to meet the stated goal of "build from copies", it sounds like you are wanting the BPO to yield greater throughput when copied from than when manufactured from directly. These proposed changes achieve that for the base stats of the blueprint, but don't appear to take TE research into account. If copying only has a 6.25% advantage at TE0, then manufacturing overtakes it again from TE8% and above (i.e. Level 4, which is not particularly hard to get).

While the improvements currently on the table are still a big step forward towards the copy-centric model, if you want to keep the carrot of greater throughput working, then one of two things needs to happen:

1) Make TE affect copying time as well as manufacturing time

2) Set the new copying time equal to the TE20% manufacturing time

Personally I would prefer the first option as it adds extra value to TE research, which has traditionally been less valued relative to ME research.


Also, can you confirm what is going to happen to blueprints where copying time is already significantly below the manufacturing time (e.g. it takes me 4 minutes to manufacture 1 run of Antimatter Charge S (TE0), but only 6 seconds per run to copy. Will the copy times on these blueprints be increasing? This seems to be common for T1 ammunition and drones and could have a particular effect on invention if the copy times are increased to match manufacture times, due to the high max-runs on these blueprints. (e.g. max-run copy of Antimatter Charge S would go from 2.5 hours to around 4 days).

Here you go. There are about 200 systems that match those criteria, or, more relevantly, 289 stations.

Alright, there is only one thing about the changes that I really don't like

Bpos should be better than bpcs. Maybe only a few percent. But there should some kind reward for building from a bpo in a pos.

For small stuff the improvement is already there. Building from a bpo essentially means less effort. But for bigger stuff that changes rather quickly.

After some internal debate we want to point out something. It isn't 6.25%. It will be more like 60%. I doubt CCP wants T2 BPO production to more than double. So barring some other changes we haven't seen yet this is what will occur.

Obviously reading comprehension is not your strong point. No, you can choose to put a BPO in a POS, but there is no requirement now that copying time is being reduced. Copy BPO in station somewhere cheap -> Put Copy in POS -> Manufacture Item. Was that so hard to understand ?

You can and will still be able to use a BPO in a POS with absolutely zero risk to the BPO.

The new setup changes this to a 0.75 timefactor on copy speed, after which production time is irrelevant due to parrallel jobs

I lose 1-0.6/0.75 = 0.2 = 20% drones produced per unit time.

Except that the current ME level on your blueprint directly determines the wastage on that blueprint, and from there you know exactly what you will get post-patch. Have you ever opened up the show info window on a blueprint before?

ME4 blueprints pre-patch all get converted to ME8% blueprints after the patch.
ME5 through ME9 blueprints pre-patch all get converted to ME9% after the patch.
ME10+ blueprints pre-patch all get converted to "Perfect" ME 10% after the patch.

So if you have an ME4 blueprint today, try to research it to ME10. If it takes too long before patch day to get it researched to 10, try to research it to 5. If you have an ME5 blueprint today, but cannot get it to level 10 before patch day, don't bother researching it anymore.

The goal is that all blueprints have the same or less waste after the change.

2) Longer research times are a problem for newer players and should be looked at.

Incoming massive amounts of perfect BPOs that will take 5x as long to research for anyone new to get up to the level these DB scripts will generate.

Actually, CCP has admitted they need to do something about T2 BPOs and the problem isn't as bad because there just aren't that many T2 BPOs out there and therefore they don't usually corner their individual markets. That won't be the case here. We're about to see a two classes form --- pre-Kronos and post-Kronos. It's going to be bad.

We are currently of a mind to shift invented BPCs so they have positive (or at worst 0) ME and TE figures. This a) prevents the removal of extra materials giving invention an extra-hard kick, and in particular b) prevents every invented T2 item from requiring two of the relevant T1 items (due to always rounding up materials). This will probably put all invented BPCs in the 1-5% ME/2-10% TE range, with decryptors adjusted to match. We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components. (This obviously also serves to close the gap somewhat between invention and T2 BPOs; this is not a goal here but it's an acceptable side-effect.)

We are going to unify ME and TE per-level research times on all blueprints. Currently it looks like most T2 and capital BPOs have different TE and ME times. We're planning on kicking T2 BPO times up to the higher of the two values, and capital ones down to the lower of the two.

We're probably going to pull the research ranks down significantly on capital ship blueprints, and potentially also on T1 ships TBD.

We're currently leaning heavily towards calculating ME for the job as a whole, not per-run, probably with a limiter that requires every run always consumes at least one of every material (to prevent 9 apocs -> 10 paladins shenanigans).

This obviously has a knock-on effect on current "perfect ME" blueprints, as the ability to add up all those roundings over multiple runs will create gains that weren't currently possible. This is already going to be the case in many scenarios with the various additional ME bonuses available in Crius, so there's no obvious strong reason not to, but we wanted to run this past people for opinions obviously :)

As mentioned at Fanfest, we're looking very hard at a lowsec-only component assembly array (not for fuel, RAMs etc) that has a reasonable ME bonus, to allow lowsec cap manufacturers to stay ballpark competitive with nullsec builders after the refine changes.

then ccp need to cut amount harvested moon goo to compensate lower demand for moon goo in t2 bluprints ex -10% :)

we dont want useless moons like gases etc

We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components.