Strange.

High PLEX prices means increased demand. Does that mean that more people are playing, or simply that more people are switching to PLEX..? It seems unlikely that people have finally started purchasing incarna items en masse, so who knows..

It means someone or some group has pretty much cornered the market and is price fixing.

It means someone or some group has pretty much cornered the market and is price fixing.

Anyone who buys plex with over than 400m is a tool.

It means someone or some group has pretty much cornered the market and is price fixing.

Or has enough isk that 400 mil isnt much perhaps?

Well yeah, but we're not talking about +3 implants here, these are PLEX. There's a massive amount of them and they're pretty damned expensive for a commodity. I find it hard to believe that one group could just waltz in raise prices by that much.

Anyone who buys plex with over than 400m is a tool.

Not gonna bother keeping 2 of my accounts active at these prices, I rather just let them go unsubbed. And if the prices still keep rising... I rather stop playing altogether than pay those extorsionist prices.

Strange.

High PLEX prices means increased demand. Does that mean that more people are playing, or simply that more people are switching to PLEX..? It seems unlikely that people have finally started purchasing incarna items en masse, so who knows..

I suspect CCP is deliberately forcing PLEX prices higher by printing ISK and buying up tons of PLEX.

CCP needs to make public precisely what market manipulation they've done in the PLEX market. I have no interest in playing a game that is supposed to have a player-run economy where the developer prints money and fucks with the market.

At the going growth rate of prices, I believe PLEX will hit 700 mil by christmas time.

It is now at 570-590 mil per in Jita.

And the trend to rise is only limited by the fact that most people purchase their PLEX on week ends.

This means that tonight's spike in PLEX is nothing compared to what is coming.

But so many warning signs were there and nobody wanted to listen.

Guess people will have to run many more incursions soon.

You know, price of subscription hasn't changed if you pay by credit card.

I suspect CCP is deliberately forcing PLEX prices higher by printing ISK and buying up tons of PLEX.

CCP needs to make public precisely what market manipulation they've done in the PLEX market. I have no interest in playing a game that is supposed to have a player-run economy where the developer prints money and fucks with the market.

I suspect CCP is deliberately forcing PLEX prices higher by printing ISK and buying up tons of PLEX.

CCP needs to make public precisely what market manipulation they've done in the PLEX market. I have no interest in playing a game that is supposed to have a player-run economy where the developer prints money and fucks with the market.

Strange.

High PLEX prices means increased demand. Does that mean that more people are playing, or simply that more people are switching to PLEX..? It seems unlikely that people have finally started purchasing incarna items en masse, so who knows..

**********

Then you better quit RL as well. just sayin...

Demand > Supply

Most likely it's real-world economics coupled with pre-expansion speculation ... fewer people have the RL isk to throw $60 or $100 at a few GTC, so higher price.

eventually, the price will hit "too high" and start coming back down because no one can sell at 650 or 700m per... (note these are just numbers, I'm not saying that it'll HIT 700m)

I doubt it will, a lot of the people who frequently buy plex for use in game time have quit buying it already because of the rising price....

I think that there will come a time when CCP receive no income from plex as no will buy because of the huge cost. At this time CCP will do something to lower the cost to a more normal price.

Already 500 million is imo too high.

.......
Remember that CCP don't gain any direct monetary benefit from someone who pays their subscription with PLEX. .........

rt paying real money for EVE and stop paying by PLEX. As such, CCP will do what they can without directly involving themselves in the market to assist with PLEX prices rising (such as putting a huge banner about PLEX prices going up upon logging in).

Or has enough isk that 400 mil isnt much perhaps?

It's in the best interests of CCP to do anything they can to assist PLEX prices rising.

They want to switch more people over to active subscriptions and have PLEX as a more formal in-game currency.

Remember that CCP don't gain any direct monetary benefit from someone who pays their subscription with PLEX. If those decide to stop playing, all that happens is the demand and therefore price of PLEX goes down a bit. CCP just want
-maximum number of *paying* subscribers

Why is it better for CCP if they get less money?

CCP gains the monetary benefit of having a demand for PLEX, thus earning more money than if the same account was kept active through subscriptions.

Oh, and PLEXed accounts are paid for.

I guess there is no need to explain this over and over and over.. Its common sense - seems like its some kind of super-power tho.

Yes, but I do have better uses for the money than to use it on spacepixels.

Since people keep believing that PLEX = GÇ£freeGÇ¥ = CCP does not get paid, it apparently does need to be explained over and over.

CCP gains the monetary benefit of having a demand for PLEX, thus earning more money than if the same account was kept active through subscriptions.

Oh, and PLEXed accounts are paid for.

Then there is the question of that isk price for a PLEX maximizes CCP profit. You would think a higher PLEX would increase PLEX purchaces. But if I want a 1 billion isk item, have cash but no isk, and the PLEX is 500 million, I buy 2. If the PLEX is 333 million I buy 3. For this case a higher PLEX reduces supply. But I think on average a higher PLEX increases supply.

[I'll well aware of that, which should have been clear from the part of my post you snipped. But my post was in response to someone saying "hey watch out, if the price goes much higher I will stop buying PLEX and CCP will lose out". Except if enough people *do* stop buying them, the price will just drop back again to an equilibrium point.

This will change the game.

You see, there is a lot to drive people away from this game. It's usually other players, but those who stay have to have multiple accounts to be effective - I refer to those players who would not be considered "casual".


But who has the money to pay for all those accounts? People are using PLEX.

Now what we see is the possibility that this "Moss Isley" of MMOs never really had 300K subs, but perhaps a small minority of MMO players - of a certain type - feeding off a rotating pool of trial accounts, sci-fi fans, and people who like space ships that get griefed out of the game or are die-hards who eventually just get bored.

When they start to become less able to PLEX all those other accounts, subs will drop.

Hence when you allow "certain" things to go on in a game that individual players will simply decide not to put up with (RL has enough problems why pay for a second job that does not pay?) , and rely on multiple-account players to comprise the whole of the player base or community, you have a very big liability on your hands.

300K INDIVIDUAL subs is more secure in income and a future. But CCP cannot maintain enough interest in the game for that, because of the usual reasons - basically the "Great wall of carebear" and eventually boredom that comes.

It's not just bitter vets with the 10 subs each getting mad at something and leaving that is risky, it's those who are bitter or not simply not having the money to maintain so many subs (the world economy is falling apart, BTW) while at the same time, the great ISK pump keeps on churning out the ISK so those who can find the time can still buy PLEX.

CCP is going to have to do things that will be appealing to people who not only try out the game, but stay - meaning that some means of breaking down the Great Wall of Carebear - the very thing that has created what might be no more than 50k players having multiple subs - and getting more individuals playing one or two subs and hence building a stronger community.

Let's consider that an MMO company, in need of capital, might actually have it's future determined in the strength of the community. When it's a niche game relying on multiple sub accounts, with a very steep wall around new players who will get bored or griefed out of the game (or both). Were I a capital investor I would pause before investing or lending to CCP just on this alone.

EvE does not have a large strong community. It has a small community that relishes in being asshats to new players and driving them off if not by PVP or "gank", then by being poor representatives of the playerbase at large. Most people, when given a choice, will not put up with semi-autistic sociopaths on their spare time, and therefore will not stick around when the mechanics of the game make it difficult to avoid them. The game relies on that small community to have multiple accounts, which are becoming too expensive because people are broke more so these days. Thus the demand for PLEX goes up.

Things are going to have to change.

Really? No one has figured this out yet?

PLEX activate an account, recieve implant set, profit.

How many implant sets do you want? Do you think that implant set will be >500m in a few months?

There is a ceiling on what these things will be worth.. and it's not much. Pirate implant sets are much better than these. The reason the Apotheosis and Echelon have any value is pretty much just collectors, or people who just want to cruise around in a new model for a bit... you can't even fly implants, so they end up just being sill items. I still have a big stack of melted snowballs MMV and MMVIII... not to mention launchers. The only reason I haven't sold them is because they are silly to have and not worth a whole lot. I would say look to the gift Quaffe booster prices in contracts as an indicator of what these implants will be worth.

Really? No one has figured this out yet?

PLEX activate an account, recieve implant set, profit.

How many implant sets do you want? Do you think that implant set will be >500m in a few months?

It means someone or some group has pretty much cornered the market and is price fixing.

Quafe boosters are slowly increasing in price.

I think many people underestimate the effect they can have in small gang pvp.

Intelligence? On the FORUMS?!? GET OUT!

The reason CCP have been struggling financially has nothing to do with performance of Eve Online. It is because they took out a loan to purchase another game company with the hope of releasing another game concept. Simultaneously they began developing an Eve add on/integration.

The in-ability to deliver the additional game concept without impacting on the current Eve Online player base is what is holding them back. The decisions made and jobs lost are more to do with the simple fact CCP were trying to produce three products on the back of the profits of one product.

Your attempt to try and link everything (plex prices, WIS, Game Mechanics) back to the limited appeal of Eve Online to a certain demographic and then insinuate that Eve is dying, by referencing recent developments, because people don't like the environment created by the target demographic is opaquely obtuse at best.

If you are implying that TEST is somehow contributing to this, than color me not-surprised. Gotta tell you though, you guys are playing a dangerous and potentially expensive game my messing with that market... heh... but it is funny if you are. ... guaranteed future lulz one way or the other!

At the going growth rate of prices, I believe PLEX will hit 700 mil by christmas time.

It was 488mil 15 hrs ago. A 100 mil spike in that time is pretty obvious manipulation.

This just shows how much isk is out there and needs to be a bigger isk sink. Who ever is playing market games with plex is starting to tick me off.

Well I just spent a couple billion on buying BPO's from NPCs if that makes you happy :)

Look at the volume. Volumes have dropped significantly over the past week. It's very easy to push the price either way with low volume, both in real life as on the EVE market. That's why you never trade stocks between Christmas and New Year's...

I wouldn't scream manipulation by CCP yet. It's much more likely that the only people buying PLEX are people who are then selling the same PLEX at a higher price since there's not a lot of people actually playing EVE thanks to Skyrim and the other games just released. Once people come back and start buying new PLEX from CCP and dropping it on the market you'll see it come down very fast as the speculators try to dump their PLEX quickly to avoid huge losses.

looks like its time to consolidate the toons I want onto one account and sell the rest... I remember when a 90 day GTC cost 380 million isk

You need to get out of 0.0 and start running Incursions in Hisec like everybody else.

Someone needs to lower plex prices back down.

Someone needs to lower plex prices back down.

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!

Yes, but I do have better uses for the money than to use it on spacepixels.

Usual pre-new-expansion-rush speculation.
So what?

500+mil per plex IS unusual.

I remember buying 30d gtc's for 160m

500+mil per plex IS unusual.

I remember buying 30d gtc's for 160m

Yes, and it was also harder to make more then 20-30M per hour (if you made 40-60M per hour out in null-sec, you were looked upon as a minor diety). There's a lot more ISK sloshing around EVE's economy now.

Thats not true. lvl4 mission payouts has actually DECREASED since then (A few patches ago they reduced module drops in missions etc)

are you suggesting that people make 3x more isk now then in 2008? Even with the decreased misson payouts, decreased insurance fraud, etc etc?

If it was just a matter of Inflation, then why are all ships not more expensive? Ships have actually DROPPED in price, canes were as low at 19m for a while

Its the same problem the oil/gas industry has. People NEED it, and so the gas companies use any excuse to jack prices up (patch? fanfest? contest? event?) and then they dont really ever fall back down to pre-spike levels. They fall a little, but nowhere near back to previous prices.

Just look what happened when CCP changed from 30d/90d gtc's to 60d only, and increased the price by i think it was 4 dollars?

Prices went from 160 to 250... over 4 dollars.

If it was just a matter of Inflation, then why are all ships not more expensive? Ships have actually DROPPED in price, canes were as low at 19m for a while

Its the same problem the oil/gas industry has. People NEED it, and so the gas companies use any excuse to jack prices up (patch? fanfest? contest? event?) and then they dont really ever fall back down to pre-spike levels. They fall a little, but nowhere near back to previous prices.

Just look what happened when CCP changed from 30d/90d gtc's to 60d only, and increased the price by i think it was 4 dollars?

Prices went from 160 to 250... over 4 dollars.

It's in the best interests of CCP to do anything they can to assist PLEX prices rising.

They want to switch more people over to active subscriptions and have PLEX as a more formal in-game currency. There will be price points whereby players will simply start paying real money for EVE and stop paying by PLEX. As such, CCP will do what they can without directly involving themselves in the market to assist with PLEX prices rising (such as putting a huge banner about PLEX prices going up upon logging in).

I would guess that the main reason PLEX prices are going up has to do with speculation on the market, hoarding, and attempted manipulations by players to get even more people to buy up PLEX.

This thread is a perfect example of market manipulation. GET IN ON THE PLEX RISE NOW!! YOU CAN CASH IN LATER!! THEY WILL KEEP GOING UP!

Without knowing anything about the PLEX market right now I would still hazard another guess: the majority of people buying up PLEX right now are doing so with the intention of 'cashing in' on the PLEX craze later.

I suspect CCP is deliberately forcing PLEX prices higher by printing ISK and buying up tons of PLEX.

CCP needs to make public precisely what market manipulation they've done in the PLEX market. I have no interest in playing a game that is supposed to have a player-run economy where the developer prints money and fucks with the market.

To put it bluntly, you are wrong. CCP do not remotely, distantly or in any way care about the price of PLEX, they don't care if they are selling on the market for 10m ISK or 1billion.

They also don't give a flying donkey's anus for anyone that quits playing because they can't afford PLEX anymore.

They care about - How many people are willing to pay for the game.

If people aren't willing to pay for the game, then the game shuts down tomorrow and we're all out of internet spaceships.
If however, some people are willing to pay for someone elses subscription in exchange for that persons ISK, then thats fine too, because thats still effectively someone willing another subscription.

As long as the same volume of PLEX are being created by players, CCP's income is fine and going to continue. if 5,000 "PLEX Subscribers" stop playing, CCP hasn't lost a penny.

The good news is that these players (stuff) will not be back because...

You say you have better uses for your money than to use it on space pixels. Let's think about that for a minute. Minimum wage is roughly 7.50 in the US (I think). I don't know where you live but that's 2 hours of work for one month of play time. Is that a waste of time? Especially compared to how much time I'm guessing you spend banking ISK for PLEX? Is doing <---- that fun?

let the prices go up, it will hit a point where people like me, with a good stockpile and/or extra cash, will invest money into the system. i am currently sitting on over a years worth of PLEX even i will sell if it gets too high.

everyone one has its price and people that want to invest will invest when the money is good. pring the prices down.

First of all CCP has nothing to do with plex pricing.

PLEX is worth exactly as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

No more. No less.

End of story.

Mr Epeen

A years worth of PLEX is like what, 12, so I hope you mean ALOT of years worth, because your're not going to have any impact at all if not.

Dont see why people are getting so worked up about Plex prices for. If you rage quit your 10 accounts that you plex because you wont be able to afford 500 million isk plex, CCP will not give a damn. You plexing 10 accounts does not make any money for CCP. I am sure they would rather have 2 people paying real money than 100 people plexing accounts any day. Business is business, deal with it, or find something else to do. I hear WoW is free up to level 20!

You people do realize that when you say you will unsub your PLEX accounts it is not like unsubbing a paid account. CCP will not even notice because the PLEX you would have bought is just sold to someone else. The moment that enough PLEX accounts unsub that there are no longer enough people to buy from the suppliers, the price will go down and the amount sold will remain constant. It will always remain constant and CCP will always make their money no matter the price.

At the going growth rate of prices, I believe PLEX will hit 700 mil by christmas time.

It is now at 570-590 mil per in Jita.

And the trend to rise is only limited by the fact that most people purchase their PLEX on week ends.

This means that tonight's spike in PLEX is nothing compared to what is coming.

But so many warning signs were there and nobody wanted to listen.

Guess people will have to run many more incursions soon.

Doesn't work like that. Your assuming the demand will remain constant. You should reexamine Supply and Demand theory.

I think that there will come a time when CCP receive no income from plex as no will buy because of the huge cost. At this time CCP will do something to lower the cost to a more normal price.

Already 500 million is imo too high.

Since people keep believing that PLEX = GÇ£freeGÇ¥ = CCP does not get paid, it apparently does need to be explained over and over.

Oh and that reminds me... Whats with the news post on the front page? Wonder if the price spike had anything to do with why they disabled PLEX activation in-game temporarily.

25/11/2011
PLEX activation available again

The in-game PLEX activation is available again after it was disabled temporarily. We apologize for any inconvenience.

What.. i checked it yesterday and it was below 500 mil and you say - "It is now at 570-590 mil per in Jita."