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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:21:00 -
[31]
Gallente need a true blaster boat, as the Mega is already a superb fleet BS, so:
8/5/7
8 turrets
-5% MWD cap penalty, 10% falloff.
125m3 Drones
So, does less damage than mega at Gal BS V, but at 3-4 is not far off, and more importantly, it can APPLY its damage, which a blasterthron struggles to do. It also has the ability to fit a second web or ECM.
Caldari need a railgun fleet BS, so:
8/7/5
6 Turrets,
10% optimal, 5% damage.
75m3 drones
Yes, less damage than thron, but easier to get up to mega-range, and better damage at mid range (fit jav/AM), so can say... fit EW instead of having to fit 3 tracking comps.
Thats two obvious holes in race combat doctrine plugged. Unfortunately, there are no real holes in the amarr combat doctrine, having a tank and a gank BS, and minmatar doctrine is already well-served by the pest (alpha strike, lots of weapons, lower sigs), and can't be done well at BS level (speed). Phoon will be jack-of-all trade with guns and missiles, very minmatar.
So .... two fleet BS with grid for 8x tach and 8x 1400? Well, the Abaddon would obsolete the apoc, tbh, but the tempest would survive as a good AC boat.
---:::---
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Kreos
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:22:00 -
[32]
I really want the Amarian t3 BS to be a drone boat. I love my arbitor I just wish I could have a somewhat decent BS sized drone boat without going Gallente.
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000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:26:00 -
[33]
well if the Tier 3 BS don't have any special bonus that will set them apart from the current Tiers, they will either be underpowered and ignored/overpowered untill they get nerfed... both options are bad imo and would make us all be very dissapointed in them no doubt, so lets hope ccp will give them some special role to fullfill.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:31:00 -
[34]
well, lets pretend there is a ship progression...
maller->prophecy->apoc
omen-> tier2 BC hopefully ->arma
arbi -> tier 3 BC  -> tier 3 BS
not really sure how the frigs fit in with that, maybe
punisher->maller->prophecy->apoc
in any case, amarr doesnt need another solo ratting BS. give us some flexibility with som med slots, drones, and less turrets
hi: 6
med: 6
low: 7
at least arma sized drone bay
id settle for 5 med slots, but at least SOMETHING different for once.
 Originally by: Tuxford
Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us 
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Hast
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:39:00 -
[35]
Matari one will be 8 highs with a 4 turrets/2 missile and two utility
its bonuses is going to be missile velocity and targetpainting
Originally by: Sarmaul
I WILL FIREBOMB CCP IF MINMATAR GET A T2 BATTLECRUISER WITH A ******* TARGET PAINTING BONUS
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: El Yatta
Caldari need a railgun fleet BS, so:
8/7/5
6 Turrets,
10% optimal, 5% damage.
75m3 drones
NO!!!
8 TURRETS!!!
There's just no justification for Caldari railboats to NEVER have as many turret slots as their counterparts in other races...both the Amarr and Minmatar ones would have higher alpha strike AND DPS (even though artillery has the lowest DPS in exchange for highest alpha-strike) with that many more turrets. Even the Tier 2 Megathron has more turrets than that! This ship is meant to be the most dedicated sniper ever, only having 6 weapons to do it with is ridiculous. If you don't like turrets, you've got the Raven and the Scorpion. Time for something PURELY built for gunnery.
--------
Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:51:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: El Yatta
Caldari need a railgun fleet BS, so:
8/7/5
6 Turrets,
10% optimal, 5% damage.
75m3 drones
NO!!!
8 TURRETS!!!
There's just no justification for Caldari railboats to NEVER have as many turret slots as their counterparts in other races...both the Amarr and Minmatar ones would have higher alpha strike AND DPS (even though artillery has the lowest DPS in exchange for highest alpha-strike) with that many more turrets. Even the Tier 2 Megathron has more turrets than that! This ship is meant to be the most dedicated sniper ever, only having 6 weapons to do it with is ridiculous. If you don't like turrets, you've got the Raven and the Scorpion. Time for something PURELY built for gunnery.
Me = caldari with more SP in gunnery than in missiles by a long way.I want a boat built for gunnery, purely. I like turrets a lot.
BUT - if we get a gallente blasterboat, it leaves the mega as a fleet BS (which it is very good at atm). If you give the Caldari one 8 turrets, it will be far better, bluntly, especially as it will have more CPU for mag stabs, and an optimal bonus so less enhancer and comps - it will just obsolete the mega as a railgun bs, and the gal tier3 will obsolete it as a blaster bs.
I could possibly go as far as 7 turrets and no damage bonus, so 25% less than the mega T, more than made up for by its extreme snipe range, ability to use Javelin at lead ranges, etc. 8 turrets, too far. 8 turrets and a damage bonus - hahahahahahah.
---:::---
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Tyrus Drake
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:57:00 -
[38]
I just hope there will be atleast 2 missile fittings or it would be crap doing level 4 and later level 5 missions. Being limited to two dmg types suck.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.05.22 22:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: El Yatta
Gallente need a true blaster boat, as the Mega is already a superb fleet BS, so:
8/5/7
8 turrets
-5% MWD cap penalty, 10% falloff.
125m3 Drones
i take it you have never actually used a close range turret BS, becase i can tell you that the MWD bonous is total **** it only works on ships with fast recharge like frigs and crusiers but on BS where u have to inject cap total cap isnt the prob!!!!
falloff is nice but with less damage than the mega and less tracking it means that the current mega would be a better blasterboat!!!!!!!
if you need to to be a blaster boat then perhaps 10% falloff 5% dmg would do it.
-------------------Sig-----------------------
welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s |
Idara
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Posted - 2006.05.22 22:10:00 -
[40]
I think the Abaddon will be an 8 turret long range sniper with -10% to Large Energy Cap Use, and 10% optimal range to Large Energy.
Amarr have the tank, the ganker, and now the proper long range sniper.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.05.22 22:15:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
8 TURRETS!!![/b]
There's just no justification for Caldari railboats to NEVER have as many turret slots as their counterparts in other races..
Oh really?
Do any other races have 6 launcher slot BS? 5 launcher slot cruisers? Why exactly should Caldari get best of both worlds?
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_____
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.05.22 22:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: El Yatta
Gallente need a true blaster boat, as the Mega is already a superb fleet BS, so:
8/5/7
8 turrets
-5% MWD cap penalty, 10% falloff.
125m3 Drones
i take it you have never actually used a close range turret BS, becase i can tell you that the MWD bonous is total **** it only works on ships with fast recharge like frigs and crusiers but on BS where u have to inject cap total cap isnt the prob!!!!
falloff is nice but with less damage than the mega and less tracking it means that the current mega would be a better blasterboat!!!!!!!
if you need to to be a blaster boat then perhaps 10% falloff 5% dmg would do it.
5% damage with 8 turrets, and sufficient grid (to put on neutrons, MWD and tank) = better 425 II boat than the megathron, which defeats the object. 10% falloff, while obviously not as good as 10% range for rails, rails have enough falloff for it to seriously own as a rail bs.
Having more cap to set out with helps a LOT in an injecting ship, as it means you wait longer before you boost. If you're so convinced it would not help (you are wrong, but thats beside the point), then 7.5% tracking, 10% falloff.
---:::---
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2006.05.22 22:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hast
Matari one will be 8 highs with a 4 turrets/2 missile and two utility
its bonuses is going to be missile velocity and targetpainting
I see the humor in this, but you'll probably be right in the end...Minnies are gonna get the shaft as usual
Ison's notches |
Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.05.22 23:01:00 -
[44]
You post here your ideas. But the end result is pretty obvious
This or this
On a side note matari tier 3 bs: click
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Norath84
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Posted - 2006.05.23 00:24:00 -
[45]
Bs with mining bonus ftw
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9854365
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Posted - 2006.05.23 00:31:00 -
[46]
I cannot wait to mine in mine 8=)
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.05.23 00:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
I'd still think the fact that the apoc can fit 8 tachyons and pump out damage makes up for the decrease in range over other sniping ships.
I still don't think we (Amarr) need an even farther sniping damage ship.
apoc doesn't go far at all compared to a tempest or a megathron or a raven
I've fought sniping ravens in an indy, guess what didn't happen? Couldn't possibly be missiles hitting could it?
----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.05.23 00:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hast
Matari one will be 8 highs with a 4 turrets/2 missile and two utility
its bonuses is going to be missile velocity and targetpainting
Die in a horribly painfull way.
----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.05.23 00:52:00 -
[49]
Edited by: j0sephine on 23/05/2006 00:53:24
"That's according to the database, yes. However, the dev in charge of designing the new battleships haven't even started, let alone written any drafts. Hence, the database shouldn't be given more credit than air."
To be honest for something that wasn't even started and have no drafts, these database stats look quite different from their 'copy and pasted' tier.2 originals. It'd be very very odd if anyone would go through all the effort to 'just randomly' put stats that make quite a bit of sense as it is, without intention to even look at them later and start from scratch.
Not saying these are final, or anything... but they sure remind me of tech.2 ammo thing. Soooo many people were 100% sure these are just drafts, couldn't be real, a subject of complete change for sure since they're year old and stuff... and then bam, patch day. Hello o.O;;
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Audri Fisher
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Posted - 2006.05.23 02:27:00 -
[50]
TBH, 5% damage 10% optimal on a caldari Battleship would probably be overpowered.They are probably going to get 5% shield resist, and 10% optimal.
No tech I caldari Railboat has a damage bonus, and Rof bonus + shieldtanking = WTH is a cap?
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Cruz
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Posted - 2006.05.23 02:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
TBH, 5% damage 10% optimal on a caldari Battleship would probably be overpowered.They are probably going to get 5% shield resist, and 10% optimal.
No tech I caldari Railboat has a damage bonus, and Rof bonus + shieldtanking = WTH is a cap?
With all those mid slots caldari ships have a 10% bonus is going to make it crazy.
................. |
Emno
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Posted - 2006.05.23 02:42:00 -
[52]
Something other then lasers lasers lasers would be nice...
Amarr ships are so boring
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Audri Fisher
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Posted - 2006.05.23 02:48:00 -
[53]
No need to make it completely insane by giving it a 5% damage boost to. You have to remember that It wiil be balanced out by the fact that the extra damage they get from using a shorter range ammo, is made up by another ships dmage bonus, yes they have a lot of mids, but ina fleetfight, ecm is worthless unless on a ship with ecm range bonus, and fitting tracking camps becomes worthless after your optimal goes past hardlocked locking range. Megas, so I have heard, can already get into the 220km range with spike ammo, that is only 30km that the caldari ship has over the mega, and the mega's damage gets better and better the closer the caldari ship gets, around 50km is the breaking point, where the mega's dps climbs to stupidly high levels relative to the caldari ship.
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Audri Fisher
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Posted - 2006.05.23 02:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: El Yatta
Gallente need a true blaster boat, as the Mega is already a superb fleet BS, so:
8/5/7
8 turrets
-5% MWD cap penalty, 10% falloff.
125m3 Drones
So, does less damage than mega at Gal BS V, but at 3-4 is not far off, and more importantly, it can APPLY its damage, which a blasterthron struggles to do. It also has the ability to fit a second web or ECM.
Caldari need a railgun fleet BS, so:
8/7/5
6 Turrets,
10% optimal, 5% damage.
75m3 drones
Yes, less damage than thron, but easier to get up to mega-range, and better damage at mid range (fit jav/AM), so can say... fit EW instead of having to fit 3 tracking comps.
Thats two obvious holes in race combat doctrine plugged. Unfortunately, there are no real holes in the amarr combat doctrine, having a tank and a gank BS, and minmatar doctrine is already well-served by the pest (alpha strike, lots of weapons, lower sigs), and can't be done well at BS level (speed). Phoon will be jack-of-all trade with guns and missiles, very minmatar.
So .... two fleet BS with grid for 8x tach and 8x 1400? Well, the Abaddon would obsolete the apoc, tbh, but the tempest would survive as a good AC boat.
I never want to hear Javilan ammo and Caldari in the same sentence again, it makes me cry when I load up Javilin on a caldari gunboat.
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Lisento Slaven
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Posted - 2006.05.23 03:18:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Epsilon 1
You post here your ideas. But the end result is pretty obvious
This or this
On a side note matari tier 3 bs: click
Oh god I hope it isn't an Augoror in BS size. People don't use Augoror's for a reason. That's why I made a mini-sniping augoror with an armor repairing wingman =D
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales! |
source
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Posted - 2006.05.23 03:51:00 -
[56]
Race's Battleships as it stands now (going by their bonus's)
Caldari have a EW boat and a Missle boat
Gallente have a Drone boat and a Rail/Blaster boat
Minmatar have a Sail boat and a Drone/missile/turret/trashcan boat
Amarr have a Laser boat and a tanking/laser boat
As it stands now, all races other than Amarr have a little bit of variations in there setup. Amarr however are stuck with the least flexibility when setting up ships. I dont know if it's because of their strict zealotic(is that even a word?) way's leading them to focus down one path or what, but flying ships that share almost identical slot layouts (move one low up for the apoc), the same long yellow almost cylindrical appearances.
Please, for the love of Amarr. Give us something different than turrets/tank! Mix them with the tracking disruptor bonus/drone bonus/armor res bonus/ armor hitpoints. SOMETHING!
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Lorette
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Posted - 2006.05.23 04:02:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Lorette on 23/05/2006 04:02:04
Id happily loose my ability to fly mega and T3 gall BS if they release a navy domi
/prays
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.05.23 04:02:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Epsilon 1
You post here your ideas. But the end result is pretty obvious
This or this
Oh please god we don't need a big Augoror. It's description states it's an 'old warhorse' from way back when so i don't see why a new ship should be given a similar design.
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_____
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Darkcor
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Posted - 2006.05.23 06:23:00 -
[59]
The Amarr BS is sooo going to be a smartbomb boat. 10% Bonus to smartbomb range and -5% ROF.
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Serj Darek
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Posted - 2006.05.23 07:36:00 -
[60]
If you look at the stats from ItemDB (yeah I know it's not reliable)
The Tier 3 Minmatar has enough grid (with awu 5) to fit 8 1400:s t2 without RCU or PDU
So i hope it aint getting a stupid TP bonus.
Fix the Typhoon description! 3 years in the making!
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