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Zeta Draconis
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Posted - 2006.05.25 00:33:00 -
[31]
Meh in the end I decided that it is not worth the hassle...
OMG
WTF
BBQ :\
In the end I don't have the time to fight a battle which is lost before being even fought (and I am not speaking about fighting the NPCs)...
R.I.P. Domi, hello *ugh* Raven...
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Draec Sjet
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Posted - 2006.05.25 01:37:00 -
[32]
I'm training up for Force Recon ships at the moment. Seeing as Drones are the damage dealing aspect of this ship, these kind of bugs which would be minor annoyances to say a BS pilot is life or death to a Recon Ship Pilot surely, as without drones (which can be picked off nicely when they sit 2km away from you stationary) you're doing no damage whatsoever.
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Yoko Milan
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Posted - 2006.05.25 07:34:00 -
[33]
I have no more comments to add really other than if we can get the drone complaint posts long enough maybe they'll take notice and fix the problem.
Petitions do from time to time make companies take notice.
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D'onryu Shoqui
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Posted - 2006.05.25 08:40:00 -
[34]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 25/05/2006 08:42:04
 Originally by: Zeta Draconis
Meh in the end I decided that it is not worth the hassle...
OMG
WTF
BBQ :\
In the end I don't have the time to fight a battle which is lost before being even fought (and I am not speaking about fighting the NPCs)...
R.I.P. Domi, hello *ugh* Raven...
lol devs wont even say if its a bug or not!
that dev (zrakor) who does all the mission stuff had a thread in the missions forum the other day so i thought i would ask ,he obviously read my post because he replied to someone else who posted after me but totally ignored my question 
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.05.25 09:37:00 -
[35]
I didn't read all the replies but instead of the "return to dronebay" command I now use the "return and orbit" command and then "scoop to dronebay". It's not foolproof but seems to work 9/10 times. If they do get stuck doing what drones do sometimes I target something set them to attack it and then do the process again.
If someone has said this allready I apologise for repeating it.
Ok it loses a little time and yes the bug is iritating but it's no biggy to get over easily.
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Zeta Draconis
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Posted - 2006.05.25 10:22:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Zeta Draconis on 25/05/2006 10:23:02
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
I didn't read all the replies but instead of the "return to dronebay" command I now use the "return and orbit" command and then "scoop to dronebay". It's not foolproof but seems to work 9/10 times. If they do get stuck doing what drones do sometimes I target something set them to attack it and then do the process again.
If someone has said this allready I apologise for repeating it.
Ok it loses a little time and yes the bug is iritating but it's no biggy to get over easily.
This trick does not work 99 times out of 100, at least for me.
I have to approach the little bastards and scoop them manually (again, do it under heavy fire, when needing to warp out NOW, when needing to switch dronr type to save your butt, etc).
I don't know if it is skill dependant (drone sharpshooting and the lil fgts sitting at their optimal range maybe? but then, why I don't have this problem with heavy drones?), personal-karma-dependant or wtf-else-dependant, it just does not work and will have me killed if I don't abandone them while running for my life.
If I can run for my life at all.
I have almost 7M sp in drones and this makes me cry.
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Kovach Lyudozherc
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Posted - 2006.05.25 11:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui
lol devs wont even say if its a bug or not!
that dev (zrakor) who does all the mission stuff had a thread in the missions forum the other day so i thought i would ask ,he obviously read my post because he replied to someone else who posted after me but totally ignored my question
they didn't say it, but I got 2 phoons back when they where destroyed due to drone agro. so obviously it's a bug
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Kinsy
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Posted - 2006.05.25 13:08:00 -
[38]
Hold on a minute...
Thats genius, increase the scoop range to 4-5km!
Problem solved!
I see no reason why it would hurt combat to have a longer scoop range. Obviously if your drones were taking damage then being able to scoop 4km out is quite handy, but if they were performing as intended this gives you what, maybe 1/4 second faster scoop time if they were at range?
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Calynus
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Posted - 2006.05.25 15:02:00 -
[39]
These drone bugs really tick me off to no end. I've never been killed because of them, but it's annoying when you want to quickly recall say light scouts after taking out all the interceptors/frigates and launch heavies to take out battleships.
What about the issue with drone tracking where your drones will stop hitting an interceptor because they are orbitting too quickly for their guns to track if you train up Drone Navigation? You need to fit an Omnidirectional Tracking Link I to counter this and they'll still miss a lot if you web the target.
So, from what I can tell they need to do a few things to workaround the bugs:
1) Remove collision detection on drones (this will prevent them from getting stuck)
2) Increase scoop range to at least 3kms (outside the optimal drone range)
3) Make drones *always* activate MWD when the enemy target is outside say 2x optimal range
4) Make all drones in space work with collective AI and select the same target to attack when they have killed the current target (nothing worse than having your drones all flying off and attacking separate targets)
5) Add target priority based on currently aggro'd enemies within a predefined range: light drones will select small ships by default, heavies will select battleships and mediums+sentries+special drones can be a wild card. Nothing worse than seeing light drones fly off into the void to start chewing on a cruiser when there at 5 interceptors swarming you webbing/scrambling.
6) Fix the tracking problem on drones by making their tracking speed a little better or else making them orbit at a slower speed to avoid the tracking speed bug
7) Make drones ALWAYS use MWD when returning to the ship when there are no more targets to attack. Right now they use normal drive only. This means you have to order them manually to use MWD to return if you need them to get back quickly for some reason which is just plain annoying.
Please, can we get some official dev responses?
Thanks
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Tehyarec
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Posted - 2006.05.25 20:42:00 -
[40]
It's really weird how the devs seem to carefully and decisively avoid commenting on certain bugs/issues, like these drone things or the BC agility/sig radius thread, yet they quickly respond to other, sometimes even a lot more trivial threads
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Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.05.25 20:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Laboratus on 25/05/2006 20:57:53
Originally by: Calynus
These drone bugs really tick me off to no end. I've never been killed because of them, but it's annoying when you want to quickly recall say light scouts after taking out all the interceptors/frigates and launch heavies to take out battleships.
What about the issue with drone tracking where your drones will stop hitting an interceptor because they are orbitting too quickly for their guns to track if you train up Drone Navigation? You need to fit an Omnidirectional Tracking Link I to counter this and they'll still miss a lot if you web the target.
So, from what I can tell they need to do a few things to workaround the bugs:
1) Remove collision detection on drones (this will prevent them from getting stuck)
2) Increase scoop range to at least 3kms (outside the optimal drone range)
3) Make drones *always* activate MWD when the enemy target is outside say 2x optimal range
4) Make all drones in space work with collective AI and select the same target to attack when they have killed the current target (nothing worse than having your drones all flying off and attacking separate targets)
5) Add target priority based on currently aggro'd enemies within a predefined range: light drones will select small ships by default, heavies will select battleships and mediums+sentries+special drones can be a wild card. Nothing worse than seeing light drones fly off into the void to start chewing on a cruiser when there at 5 interceptors swarming you webbing/scrambling.
6) Fix the tracking problem on drones by making their tracking speed a little better or else making them orbit at a slower speed to avoid the tracking speed bug
7) Make drones ALWAYS use MWD when returning to the ship when there are no more targets to attack. Right now they use normal drive only. This means you have to order them manually to use MWD to return if you need them to get back quickly for some reason which is just plain annoying.
Please, can we get some official dev responses?
Thanks
/signed
Originally by: Tehyarec
It's really weird how the devs seem to carefully and decisively avoid commenting on certain bugs/issues, like these drone things or the BC agility/sig radius thread, yet they quickly respond to other, sometimes even a lot more trivial threads
I think it is mostly due to the fact that writing even a simple AI (Artifical Idiocy) is painful and takes a lot of time, that could be used more efficiently elsewhere. And the BC issue might be due to disign, or just a bit too painful to balance, as it has too many variables.
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2006.05.25 22:13:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Arleonenis on 25/05/2006 22:14:48
Edited by: Arleonenis on 25/05/2006 22:14:15
Originally by: Laboratus
I think it is mostly due to the fact that writing even a simple AI (Artifical Idiocy) is painful and takes a lot of time, that could be used more efficiently elsewhere. And the BC issue might be due to disign, or just a bit too painful to balance, as it has too many variables.
They are to lazy to do it, most simply alghorytm for light drones would be something like this (i dont know eve code and im not very good programmer, its not my speciality):
if targetdestroyed==1
{
if playerunderattack==1 targetclosestplayerenemy
{
if target!=frigate change targetclosestplayerenemy+1
{
if target!=frigate change targetclosestplayerenemy+2;
attack;
} else attack;
} else attack;
else returnandorbit };
this should force all drones to attack closest to player ship and do check on ship type, after checking two times it will just attack next target, it isnt foolproof but much more than drone players heave now ofcorse variables in eve would be quite diffrent but this is just an idea of small "ai" fix
targetclosestplayerenemy is ofcorse function that check player position, position ships that are actualy attacking player, than calculate distances to all ships and target one that distance to player is lowest
ITs just most basic type of ai drone behaviour check
For "drones sex" it would be checking proximity to other drones if it find one to close it change course to random for 2 seconds before returning to previous task (on previous course) more advanced version isnt needed but possible with checking which drone is closest to destination and after comparison drone that is further change course and drones that is closer dont do nothing, its also possible that further drone slow down its speed for few seconds rather than changing course
not really difficult if someone want to think about it, know code on which he is working on and language in which this code is based, most important is "idea" how to fix problem...
If its to much to handle by server it could be handled by client (not 100% sure though as i dont know what capabilities client heave), client computer calculate everything and just send raw data to server on which server response like targetclosestplayerenemy could be handled by client (saving server calculating power) and just send to server distances to enemies, or even table sorted by target distances, ofcorse its more complicated by this but its doable with some little effort
everything depends how much calculations client do and how much server do calculations, some most crucial calculations must be done by server some less crucial (time isnt that essence (lag on network while sending data in both ways)) could be done by client side to use calculating power of users computer... its heavily depend on how eve is coded
Balance in EVE |
El Huapo
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Posted - 2006.05.26 01:32:00 -
[43]
/signed. Please fix drones!!!
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Father Weebles
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Posted - 2006.05.26 02:35:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Father Weebles on 26/05/2006 02:36:36
Originally by: lockjaws
Edited by: lockjaws on 22/05/2006 11:43:25
drones are poo example i was in a raven loaded with fofs in an 04 a jamming scorp had turned up corps covetor was nearby i was babysitting anyway target warps in i lock it then shoot fofs they flew past target that extra 5 kms and struck covetor and drones also did same by the time i stopped fof's then recalled drones that didnt dock btw covetors pilot was ranting at me in corp chat[also in his egg] lol
i petitioned asking answers for this and ccp treated me like an idiot that must of wanted it happen anyway made a lot of ppl laff except me and the covetor owner
and ive lost all interest in using petition ever again
it reminds me of car sales men
This is proof the American school system is ineffective.
Quote:
if I type the word "drone" in local while docked after accepting a mission, they exit their deadspace pockets and come to camp the station where I am in.
LOL
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Talos Munjab
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Posted - 2006.05.26 04:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Talos Munjab on 26/05/2006 04:19:16
drones need sorting, not even the mods showing them selves on these threads
edit
just got this reply on my link
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=341151
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Talos Munjab
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Posted - 2006.05.26 04:20:00 -
[46]
just got this reply from dev on mine
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=341151
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ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.05.26 09:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Zeta Draconis
Meh in the end I decided that it is not worth the hassle...
OMG
WTF
BBQ :\
I lost Astarte and Guardian to the same bug but after petitioning I got it back.
PS. You forgot to hide system name on overview and now everyone knows you run missions in Vale. 
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Zeta Draconis
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Posted - 2006.05.26 10:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Talos Munjab
just got this reply from dev on mine
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=341151
\0/ better than nothing !!!
But the fact that it is scheduled for Kali...
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
PS. You forgot to hide system name on overview and now everyone knows you run missions in Vale.
I am victim of frequent attacks of nubness  (and tbh I asked myself why I edited out the system name, not like it is a supersikrit location with arkonor or similar stuff in it lol... but I had already uploaded the images and I am lazy  )
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velocoraptor
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Posted - 2006.05.26 10:50:00 -
[49]
Its been too long now. Yeah, drones are still bugged so,
/signed (oping that when this thread reaches 100+ pages, someone will say drone issues will be fixed sooner than soon(tm).
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Zeta Draconis
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:00:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Zeta Draconis on 26/05/2006 11:03:42
Tbh I am liking the approach of all the guys 'n gals posting in this thread, a lot.
Let's keep this alive, it is in everyone's interest I think, since drones are commonly used by 8 ships out of 10 (more or less).
Add your feedback, constantly, post links to pics, name situations, problems and possible workarounds.
Let's be polite but firm, 'they' wander this forums, 'they' read, 'they' know.
Edit:
I changed the thread title to make it reflect what it should be.
Keep the posts coming ppl !!!
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:05:00 -
[51]
If they aren't going to fix the returning bug, the least they could do is give us the ability to cut off our drones so we could launch more.
I hate it when I have drones out that arent fit for the job at hand and yet I cannot swap over because the damn things wont get back in my bay. Under such a circumstance, I would like to cut them off and release a new wave of drones. I think its a very reasonable request
Originally by: Blind Fear
Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:08:00 -
[52]
Edited by: madaluap on 26/05/2006 11:09:11
Originally by: Zeta Draconis
Meh in the end I decided that it is not worth the hassle...
OMG
WTF
BBQ :\
In the end I don't have the time to fight a battle which is lost before being even fought (and I am not speaking about fighting the NPCs)...
R.I.P. Domi, hello *ugh* Raven...
I DID THAT TOO It was a long time ago i have to say that, but i got so ******* angree i selfdescructed my dominix and i really did buy a raven. I was "testing" the dominix a month before the missile nerf came in  After that i never did lvl 4 again btw
_________________________________________________
OW YEH BABEH, I GOT THE GLITTERS I GOT EM |
Zeta Draconis
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Posted - 2006.05.26 14:39:00 -
[53]
Bump, till the end of the days.
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Kellaen
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Posted - 2006.05.26 18:00:00 -
[54]
Fix this crap
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Chalan Galadriel
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Posted - 2006.05.27 02:40:00 -
[55]
In the voice of Beavis 'fix it, FIX IT!'
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.05.27 03:22:00 -
[56]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Yes this is getting rediculous.
1) increase the freaking scooping range to 5km ( to also be able to cover fighters orbiting the carrier).
2) fix that drone-forgets-to-turn-on-mwd bug already!
yes!
Pretty please??
Spirits in the night! ALLLLL NIGHT!!! |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2006.05.27 03:43:00 -
[57]
thing is, if scoop range was increased to 5km, the drones would only idle at 5.1 km. I think it looks like this:
while(range > scoop_range)
approach();
but it could as well be:
while (range > scoop_range/2)
approach();
so that drones always try to get to half the scoop_range, or even:
while (range > scoop_range/(2*latency_factor))
approach();
But, hey, what do I know...
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Zeta Draconis
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Posted - 2006.05.29 15:29:00 -
[58]
Oh since, I answered another drone thread... shameless bump (since Tuxford looks to be around).
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Talion Shar
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Posted - 2006.05.29 18:02:00 -
[59]
easy workaround:
jet a can.
command your drones that wont scoop in or are damn slow returning back to your ship attacking the jetcan.
as they hit mwd and approach the can... scoop!
scoop the can... done.
very easy workaround...
but for all other things... can the devs just changed the sig for drones to cans?
so we can tractor the drones in with a tractor beam...
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