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Warning - Chosen are not to be trusted

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Taetin Ishtal	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:32:00 - [91] Edited by: Taetin Ishtal on 22/05/2006 10:34:08 Originally by: Shyalud Did we stab you in the back when we accepted you into OSS and thereby getting you out of about 15 empire wars? 15? We only had six... and that was hardly our logic for going out to join you. Most of them were pretty damn ineffectual merc corps. A few were of note, but hardly killing us.
Shyalud	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:34:00 - [92] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Shyalud Are you completetely unaware of what's going on in EVE? Where is Tribute in relation to D2 Teritory? We were meant to keep D2 busy while ERA went after their true prize. If you can figure out where that is, then you need to talk to your leadership and get some facts. Actually that's not true. You were supposed to create and run the OSS in the North. You were even given 3 stations to get you started. You were incapable of doing that to the point of selling out your old and new friends in the area. Then where was ERA, Tolon? Suas managed 1 80 man fleet to respond to the attack, but it was comprissed of mostly OSS north pilots. And as you said, we were to manage stations. It was ERAs job to respond to a major attack. Let's not point out only half the deal. For the entirety of our time in tribute all defensive gangs and roaming gangs were 90% CHSN Pilots and the odd pilot or 2 from other corps, including ERA corps. That's a fact. Where was ERA? I have not revealed any of your plans, but the OSS folks, D2 and indeed we are fully aware of them. What you were up too directly led to the D2 assault on Tribute as a pre-emptive strike. CHSN High Council
Shyalud	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:35:00 - [93] Originally by: Taetin Ishtal Edited by: Taetin Ishtal on 22/05/2006 10:34:08 Originally by: Shyalud Did we stab you in the back when we accepted you into OSS and thereby getting you out of about 15 empire wars? 15? We only had six... and that was hardly our logic for going out to join you. Most of them were pretty damn ineffectual merc corps. A few were of note, but hardly killing us. You need to speak to your CEO. CHSN High Council
Taetin Ishtal	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:38:00 - [94] Originally by: Shyalud You need to speak to your CEO. I don't really see why. I'm well aware of the situation, as well as what transpired before and after we joined. I'm also well aware of what transpired before and after your betrayal. The relationship between my corporation and your corporation, or D2 for that matter, is not my decision. My personal feelings on the matter, however, are and that's what I've stated here. That you can claim not to have betrayed allies is just creating your own little reality to live in and make yourself feel better. Either that, or you have no morals or honesty anyway, so you don't care. Either way, I won't trust you again. Sorry.
Taetin Ishtal	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:47:00 - [95] Oh, and not to say that I don't agree with you on many points Shyalud... We (the OSS) were pretty much left to hang on alot of combat situations due to crappy system defense. I'm not sure the ERA was even capable of defending the region in the first place, but really, that doesn't excuse what you did. You SHOULD have at least told them before hand that you were going to pull out, or whatever. That you decided to turn on everyone is what I find reprehensible.
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:48:00 - [96] Originally by: KIATolon Not necessarily for the swift taking of tribute (which was quite impressive) but convinving CCP to give you enough standings slots to nap almost the entire of the North :) If u ever had a clue you would know that only D2 and RZR started with the initial assault. later on when most of it was secure, Guard and Morsus Mihi came in too. We expected OSS/ERA/TCF/VOID and Zenith Affinity - All entities atleast partially residing in the north. And they are all kos, as are PoE now eg. Its not my problem that your incompetence of leading a proper counterstrike against us screwed it up. On the paper your coalition has larger numbers. Im not impressed. --------------------------------
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:59:00 - [97] Originally by: Shyalud Then where was ERA, Tolon? Suas managed 1 80 man fleet to respond to the attack, but it was comprissed of mostly OSS north pilots. And as you said, we were to manage stations. It was ERAs job to respond to a major attack. Let's not point out only half the deal. For the entirety of our time in tribute all defensive gangs and roaming gangs were 90% CHSN Pilots and the odd pilot or 2 from other corps, including ERA corps. That's a fact. Where was ERA? I have not revealed any of your plans, but the OSS folks, D2 and indeed we are fully aware of them. What you were up too directly led to the D2 assault on Tribute as a pre-emptive strike. In bed, due to the fact almost all of us are Europeans. As I said. We were fully aware of the fact that Chosen were mainly US and so there was no criticism of the fact you were not in our gangs. I personally ran a gang every single day for about 6 hours a day. We weren't able to reinforce IMK due to the fact there was a 200 man blob there and bubbles on the gate. Despite the fact we thought you were doing a crappy job we supported you, and tried to help. You thought we did a crappy job (because we were not in your gangs due to being in a different timezone and therefore you assumed we were not there - the same argument could be applied to you folks) and in response you locked up assets and rolled over. The majority of ERA left Tribute ONLY after you'd backstabbed OSS/ERA. I say the majority because some are still there trying to get OSS members assets out. I want to re-iterate this point one more time. I ran gangs every day. My gangs (in the euro timezone) had 90% of all online BOS members in them. They had a tonne of MLM, KIA, and KOS in them. They also had one or two Chosen members in. The reason they had so many of ERA and not OSS North is two fold. 1) it is because ERA is euro timezone and chosen is US. Therefore Chosen could not and would not be expected to turn up. We knew that and didn't try and lock your assets in a station because of it. 2) there was hardly any Euro OSS North turning up because it was your responsbility to ensure they turned up and you were completely incompetent. Just of interest. This one 80 man gang compromised of entirely oss north nearly... I led that. If you go and check the killmails from that day you will see there are not a single OSS North pilot on it. ERA were doing their job. You didn't do yours and by the sounds of things you've been fed a great deal of misinformation by your corp. Sorry you felt the need to backstab people instead of talking to me about it.
Mephistos	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:09:00 - [98] Hehe, Woodlouse, how did we get dragged into your post? :p
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:16:00 - [99] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Shyalud Just of interest. This one 80 man gang compromised of entirely oss north nearly... I led that. If you go and check the killmails from that day you will see there are not a single OSS North pilot on it. ERA were doing their job. You didn't do yours and by the sounds of things you've been fed a great deal of misinformation by your corp. Sorry you felt the need to backstab people instead of talking to me about it. LOL? Where was that 80 man ERA gang? Logged off? And no, Tau Ceti guys dont count as being in ERA --------------------------------
Shyalud	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:18:00 - [100] Edited by: Shyalud on 22/05/2006 11:20:48 Originally by: KIATolon Sorry you felt the need to backstab people instead of talking to me about it. I do not feel the need to backstab anyone. The topic of this thread is not ERA backstabbed us. ERA's response in any timezone was not enough to defend tribute. That's clear. By the original agreement, OSS was to manage tribute, while ERA defended it. That simple. ERA is predominantly EURO as is D2, at least the corps that were in the attack. D2 had the time to knock 7 large battlepos's (properly fitted) into reinforced without any real resistance from ERA, OSS, or anyone else. During EURO times. That simple. Perhaps we could have stayed and helped fatten up D2's killboard, but the outcome would have obviously been the same. Tribute would be theirs, CHSN would be devestated, and ERA would be fat and healthy in Syndicate. We had much more to loose then anyone, except maybe WOT, and when the writing is on the wall, it's an idiot that doesn't read it. I didn't slag of ERA Tolon, in fact I stated otherwise in an earlier post. D2 just had a bigger and better fleet. CHSN High Council

Shyalud	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:19:00 - [101] Originally by: Taetin Ishtal Originally by: Shyalud You need to speak to your CEO. I don't really see why. Becouse we [CHSN] negotiated standings for [RAGEX] as well. CHSN High Council
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:23:00 - [102] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse If u ever had a clue you would know that only D2 and RZR started with the initial assault. later on when most of it was secure, Guard and Morsus Mihi came in too. We expected OSS/ERA/TCF/VOID and Zenith Affinity - All entities atleast partially residing in the north. And they are all kos, as are PoE now eg. Its not my problem that your incompetence of leading a proper counterstrike against us screwed it up. On the paper your coalition has larger numbers. Im not impressed. I saw a couple of D2 pilots run away from BOS yesterday whilst outnumbered. Is that a cause for me to be unimpressed? No. Do they suck because they didn't bring their whole alliance (which is far bigger on paper than BOS) to a gate they didn't know we'd be on? No. It takes time to mobilise people Woodlouse and people were being mobilised however Chosen selling folks out put an end to that. You did well to get them to roll over so quickly and that was a very impressive blob you had. See you in space :)
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:27:00 - [103] Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 22/05/2006 11:28:15 Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse If u ever had a clue you would know that only D2 and RZR started with the initial assault. later on when most of it was secure, Guard and Morsus Mihi came in too. We expected OSS/ERA/TCF/VOID and Zenith Affinity - All entities atleast partially residing in the north. And they are all kos, as are PoE now eg. Its not my problem that your incompetence of leading a proper counterstrike against us screwed it up. On the paper your coalition has larger numbers. Im not impressed. I saw a couple of D2 pilots run away from BOS yesterday whilst outnumbered. Is that a cause for me to be unimpressed? No. Do they suck because they didn't bring their whole alliance (which is far bigger on paper than BOS) to a gate they didn't know we'd be on? No. It takes time to mobilise people Woodlouse and people were being mobilised however Chosen selling folks out put an end to that. You did well to get them to roll over so quickly and that was a very impressive blob you had. See you in space :) Depends which ships they had and you tbh. and XT nublars dont count EDIT: it took me 12 hours to get all sorted, fleet movement from us and our allies. Go figure. --------------------------------
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:32:00 - [104] Edited by: KIATolon on 22/05/2006 11:34:24 Originally by: Shyalud Edited by: Shyalud on 22/05/2006 11:20:48 Originally by: KIATolon Sorry you felt the need to backstab people instead of talking to me about it. I do not feel the need to backstab anyone. The topic of this thread is not ERA backstabbed us. ERA's response in any timezone was not enough to defend tribute. That's clear. By the original agreement, OSS was to manage tribute, while ERA defended it. That simple. ERA is predominantly EURO as is D2, at least the corps that were in the attack. D2 had the time to knock 7 large battlepos's (properly fitted) into reinforced without any real resistance from ERA, OSS, or anyone else. During EURO times. That simple. Perhaps we could have stayed and helped fatten up D2's killboard, but the outcome would have obviously been the same. Tribute would be theirs, CHSN would be devestated, and ERA would be fat and healthy in Syndicate. We had much more to loose then anyone, except maybe WOT, and when the writing is on the wall, it's an idiot that doesn't read it. I didn't slag of ERA Tolon, in fact I stated otherwise in an earlier post. D2 just had a bigger and better fleet. Yes the outcome would have been the same. D2 would have tribute. However OSS North and ERA would have had the chance to get their assets, and your corp wouldn't be slated for selling out to the enemy to save their stuff. BOS would never had been able to hold syndicate if there wasn't a strong OSS to back it up. That's not the way it works. We didn't have a strong OSS in the North to back us up when it got invaded and so we lost it. edit: 12 hours :( nicely done. TBH it's a shame you bought so many people. If you'd done it as D2 only I think it would have been good fun.
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:49:00 - [105] Originally by: KIATolon edit: 12 hours :( nicely done. TBH it's a shame you bought so many people. If you'd done it as D2 only I think it would have been good fun. its a shame that u didnt bring up goonfleet and the d2 fleet was round about 140 ships plus 20 dreads, i doubt that ur forces would have been able to handle that w/o teh goonies. --------------------------------
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:01:00 - [106] I dont think it would have made any difference. We would have had about equal numbers but still been hugely outnumbered in terms of skill points. The majority of the oss cant hit at 200km, and they dont have assets all over the map. They're new players and so taking them into a fight against 250 experienced pilots would be suicide. Fun maybe, but not worth the hassle of spending hours moving to tribute, then hours jostling for position for 20 minutes of lag followed by death... especially when they're suspicious that Chosen would sell us out. 250 tech I frigs are pretty impressive, but not against 250 hacs and tech II bs. Maybe we'll replay in 9 months :)
Bowwow Meow	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:05:00 - [107] Regardless of the politics of the situation. The simple fact that you handed the stations over to you enemies without warning your allies, or even your own alliance is a terrible thing to do.
Recluse Viramor	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:26:00 - [108] Originally by: Bowwow Meow Regardless of the politics of the situation. The simple fact that you handed the stations over to you enemies without warning your allies, or even your own alliance is a terrible thing to do. Have you read any of this thread? ERA's and OSS's leadership actions or should i say inaction prove them to be hardly allies at all. There is alot going on here that even this thread doesn't spill out that only the leaders of these alliances know about, and unfortunetly it seems a number of members in ERA weren't aware of thier leaders plans either. This entire situation would have never happened if ERA/OSS was fully committed to defending tribute, but that didn't happen. Chosen Path
Two step	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:30:00 - [109] How about an offical ERA response to the abandoning Tribute plan that we found out about? I like the way this has all been laid on the shoulders of CHSN and the discussion has moved away from ERA trying to betray us.
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:31:00 - [110] Originally by: Recluse Viramor Originally by: Bowwow Meow Regardless of the politics of the situation. The simple fact that you handed the stations over to you enemies without warning your allies, or even your own alliance is a terrible thing to do. Have you read any of this thread? ERA's and OSS's leadership actions or should i say inaction prove them to be hardly allies at all. There is alot going on here that even this thread doesn't spill out that only the leaders of these alliances know about, and unfortunetly it seems a number of members in ERA weren't aware of thier leaders plans either. This entire situation would have never happened if ERA/OSS was fully committed to defending tribute, but that didn't happen. Uh, even shyalud disagrees... I find it interesting you blame OSS leadership... when that was your corp. ERA were there right up until the point you sold out.

Gkord	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:36:00 - [111] note : Taetin's views in no way reflect the views of the RAGEX corporation. The simple fact of the matter was that D2 had been raiding into OSS/ERA territory for the better part of two weeks leading up to this, and no force could be mustered up to defend OSS space. Even in the two days where D2 really got serious and jumped their capital ships in, alliance and era ops chat was on fire with calls for help from OSS south or anyone that would listen. The response? OSS south basically said "hey not our problem" and looked the other way. For the entire time D2 was invading, the largest OSS/ERA fleet i heard of was 15-20 ships, when we had over 400 pilots in alliance chat. I dont blame Chosen Path one bit for their actions. Given the possibility of total annihilation, one protects his assests and the assets of his corp mates. All others are secondary.
Recluse Viramor	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:42:00 - [112] Edited by: Recluse Viramor on 22/05/2006 12:43:53 Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Recluse Viramor Originally by: Bowwow Meow Regardless of the politics of the situation. The simple fact that you handed the stations over to you enemies without warning your allies, or even your own alliance is a terrible thing to do. Have you read any of this thread? ERA's and OSS's leadership actions or should i say inaction prove them to be hardly allies at all. There is alot going on here that even this thread doesn't spill out that only the leaders of these alliances know about, and unfortunetly it seems a number of members in ERA weren't aware of thier leaders plans either. This entire situation would have never happened if ERA/OSS was fully committed to defending tribute, but that didn't happen. Uh, even shyalud disagrees... I find it interesting you blame OSS leadership... when that was your corp. ERA were there right up until the point you sold out. Please, we both know that CHSN was suppose to be in charge from day one but over time it was evident that it was indeed not. CHSN did not have say in what corps even joined OSS north (as it was originally agreed to be in charge of), and even was against some corps joining, but alas, they found their way into OSS north. Several Tribe corps found thier way into OSS which CHSN adamantly was against. The real leader in control from just looking at alliance mail alone was Saus and his alt Lena. Chosen Path
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:46:00 - [113] Edited by: KIATolon on 22/05/2006 12:49:55 Edited by: KIATolon on 22/05/2006 12:47:48 I'm leaving this thread now you've started making things up. See you round. edit: the above comment was aimed at recluse. Woody, IMK had 220 in local (20 I believe were friendly), 50 or so in local in H-W and about 30 in WH/M-O. That's a lot, and was before Iron turned up.
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:46:00 - [114] Originally by: KIATolon 250 tech I frigs are pretty impressive, but not against 250 hacs and tech II bs. dude at no point we were close to 250 t2 bs or even to 250 in total --------------------------------
Magnus Thermopyle	Posted - 2006.05.22 12:46:00 - [115] The fact is, ERA was supposed to be our defence since they are only PvP corps. They where supposed to defend (or atleast help us defend) our territory. But at the end, ERA was no where to be seen. Neither where OSS except CHSN. So who backstabbed who? I personally wont shed any tears for ERAs lost or trapped assets. And I will never be in the same alliance as MLM again (or as someone said: best way to play EVE is to do the opposite of what MLM does). PS: these are my personal opinions, and not necessarily the opinion of CHSN.
Shyalud	Posted - 2006.05.22 13:07:00 - [116] Recluse is actually correct, in a very simplistic way. Since ERA leadership is now bashing CHSN I feel no need to rise above that. The OSS exectuor corp is Free COllective which is run by and alt of Suas, who is BOS leadership as well. From a convo that was not intended for me to hear, but from a trusted source, it was ERA's plan to let CHSN and OSS north stand alone against D2 while ERA and OSS West(syndicate) invaded Cloud Ring. When Tribute fell, and ERA knew it would, a few select corps would be invited to syndicate/cloud ring and the rest would be written off. Why would my corp risk all for ERA when it wasn't willing to do that for us? The fact is, ERA never had any intention of deploying any more then a token force to the defense of Tribute. It's easy for everyone to point fingers at me and CHSN as there is something very visible for you to grab hold of. I don't expect anyone from ERA to publicly acknowledge what I just stated, but at the very least, Tolon, take the higher road becouse you know exactly what was happening. You don't have to like that CHSNs actions messed up your plans, but don't yell "foul" at us when you planned on cutting us loose from the start. CHSN High Council
KIATolon	Posted - 2006.05.22 13:25:00 - [117] Edited by: KIATolon on 22/05/2006 13:34:42 Originally by: Shyalud Recluse is actually correct, in a very simplistic way. Since ERA leadership is now bashing CHSN I feel no need to rise above that. The OSS exectuor corp is Free COllective which is run by and alt of Suas, who is BOS leadership as well. From a convo that was not intended for me to hear, but from a trusted source, it was ERA's plan to let CHSN and OSS north stand alone against D2 while ERA and OSS West(syndicate) invaded Cloud Ring. When Tribute fell, and ERA knew it would, a few select corps would be invited to syndicate/cloud ring and the rest would be written off. Why would my corp risk all for ERA when it wasn't willing to do that for us? The fact is, ERA never had any intention of deploying any more then a token force to the defense of Tribute. It's easy for everyone to point fingers at me and CHSN as there is something very visible for you to grab hold of. I don't expect anyone from ERA to publicly acknowledge what I just stated, but at the very least, Tolon, take the higher road becouse you know exactly what was happening. You don't have to like that CHSNs actions messed up your plans, but don't yell "foul" at us when you planned on cutting us loose from the start. Is this the same source that told woody VOID were coming to kill him in tribute? You've missed the point though Shyalud. What would attacking cloud ring do for the stability of tribute? Would it increase or decrease it? Would all of D2/Razor etc being in Cloud Ring HELP with your situation in tribute or hinder it? There was an entire weekends mining op in Syndicate to pay for this attack (hence the reason people were not in the North) and we'd pushed forwards the attack from the beginning of June to tomorrow after the patch. ALL of ERA were in Tribute. We were trying to mobilise some more help as, as we both admit we were outnumbered AND out-gunned. All you had to do was not rollover. Which you failed to do. If you notice the D2/ERA killboards you will see that ERA is there up to saturday when you handed the stations over, and that we were in considerably more fights with D2 than you were. You got fed a line from someone, you believed them and you sold everyone out because of that. There were never any plans to abandon tribute - just to take the pressure of it to give you another chance to try and make OSS North a reality because it was too hostile to do so. Now, you may or you may not believe me... that's fine... but just try to consider for one moment that I'm telling the truth. Now think about what you've done in context to that... and know that the people that have their assets locked up in IMK, H-W and D7 (incidently ask yourself why ERA have so many assets in tribute if we had abandoned it....) are not happy with you. I never planned on cutting you loose, and if I had I would certainly not have stuck to my principles and let OSS take the stations at the cost of losing Delta Team.
Azaries	Posted - 2006.05.22 13:37:00 - [118] wrong char Sig removed, please keep it below 24000 bytes, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Azareis	Posted - 2006.05.22 13:37:00 - [119] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse It wouldnt make a difference at all tbh if they had pulled down sov or not, u wouldnt been able to get ur stuff cause of 24/7 heavily camped stations. It simply did make things more uncomplicated for both us and CHSN. Your weak alliances screwed over, not them. Either way Tribute was going to fall and being a PvP pilot in CHSN I seen this coming for weeks. I have been in gangs nightly to try and keep Tribute clean and it was almost always an all CHSN gang. Just peek at our KB's and you will quickly see what I'm talking about. We would get a few people from other corps but the majority always seemed to be CHSN. This always puzzled me if ERA was the leet PvP corp than where were all the mmebers?? And if OSS was this big zerg corp where were all the goonies??? I guess the answer is in Syndicate laughing about leaving the meat shields to cover the retreat. ERA left us without support and other than a few exceptions I feel you are the backstabbers. I think it's funny our "enemies" have treated us better than our supposed friends.
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.22 13:39:00 - [120] Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 22/05/2006 13:40:05 Originally by: KIATolon Is this the same source that told woody VOID were coming to kill him in tribute? ask KiaEddz Originally by: KIATolon There was an entire weekends mining op in Syndicate to pay for this attack (hence the reason people were not in the North) and we'd pushed forwards the attack from the beginning of June to tomorrow after the patch. see? u just admitted it --------------------------------



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