| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
80
   |
Posted - 2014.04.30 13:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Quintessen wrote:Two major concerns:
1) How is this not simply going to go to whomever has the most coordinated effort to attract them and who already has the most money (major null-sec alliances).
2) When a team arrives people will likely shift production to their specialties for that system? How is that not likely to produce an oversupply for all involved meaning that using a team actually means less profit and not more? One of my first instincts is going to be seeing if using teams actually hurts a local system. Valid concerns, the way to aim to address both is by having a lot of teams active. As there are only so many teams you need, lots of teams mean more people have access to them.
I think you underestimate how much people will spend just to salt the earth and keep the good teams away from competitors, or just 'cause. 2.5% ME is no trivial matter.
If there are no factors creating an upper bound on how many teams can be in a system, there's a real high chance of an undue clustering.
Something that might help counteract this is turning the 10,000 isk per jump fee exponential, increasing the further away the team is starting from, and having that relocation fee subtracted from the total bid count for a system's total bid. Also should have a higher starting point, 10,000 isk is hardly a rounding error. It should be ensured that teams spawn in 0.0 systems more than empire systems because 0.0 is considerably more widespread.
This is certainly an interesting proposed system, I'll say that much, but it's fighting directly against the previous POS-manufacturing paradigm, where people were rewarded by staying put, and did not need to count on anybody else (at least in empire, obviously). You should expect a lot of resistance to this from cottage industry manufacturers in underutilized systems unless a way can be found to ensure they can secure teams too.
Also yeah, the person who sets out isk needs some sort of increased tangible benefit, something like a reduction in the % team cost per job up to a 20%-30% ceiling based on what % of the isk contribution a character made to secure the agent. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 18:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
350125GO wrote:Also, it said the cost of a team would be more expensive depending on how far away from their base the winning system is in. What does this do to wormholes, since Eve lists them as infinitely far away from anywhere in k-space?
As repeatedly stated in-thread, wormholes are counted as being 50 jumps away for the purposes of pricing. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 18:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
350125GO wrote:
Thanks,
I read the first few pages, I don't have full time to read 20+ pages.
Yeah no problem.
I suppose with ~4,000 teams at any given time chances are the lower quality/weird spec ones will be obtainable fairly cheaply (relative to the higher end ones, anyway), though this seems like something that we'll only know after the fact when this goes live. CCP should be ready to re-balance somewhat if even the lowest of the low quality teams are significantly out of reach for typical manufacturers.
Having some teams be region-locked could be a good way to ensure local availability at at least some level too.
Jayem See wrote:Make them be collected by players. Players that collect them automatically have a suspect/criminal flag. Oh yeah - make them 2500m3. 
4 people as 2500m3? |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 18:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
or it can be like PLEX: just because it's in the game doesn't mean you can afford it or have some unalienable human right to access.
As one of the few people left who won the T2 BPOs they produce with in the original lottery, I'm well aware of privilege, undue or not. We should avoid creating more systems that are too easy for those with wealth and power to wall off and claim as their own at the expense of others trying to start out or break in.
Not much point implementing a new element to a manufacturing system if it's out of the reach of the majority of manufacturers, after all. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 20:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:So highsec POS's are going away after the change... We can build cheaper in stations a few jumps from trade hubs AND now we will have to follow the teams to get the best manufacturing. Is there going to be any reason to have a highsec POS after these changes besides the whopping 5% reduction in manufacturing costs?
Actually it's 2% for POSes, and up to 5% for outposts. 5% is nothing to sneeze at though.
The smart money in empire will be made by people who use POSes to make BPCs, and then take them and the materials to where optimal teams are, assuming the systems are not too crowded. Or just those who are comfortable enough with moving their BPOs to where the teams are. Or they'd just stay put, unless the team ME bonus is greater than the 2% POS manufacturing bonus. Seems like one way or another there will still be a use for POSes, especially if they retain their production speed bonuses. This isn't hard math.
There are a lot of opportunities here to outwit dopes who manufacture at worse effective ME levels, so assuming the system is not too lopsided, and works as intended, this could be very, very profitable. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 20:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:
As far as highsec goes, in order to get that 2% bonus you will need to:
1. Drop 300 to 500 mill for a POS and modules
2. Log on every day to check for wardecs
3. Pay 90 million a month for fuel
4. Haul fuel each month
5. Risk BPO's in a POS if doing copying
I just dont see the current information providing enough reasons to continue using a POS in highsec when I can spend less by using a station and sit in an NPC corp and be about as safe as a person can be in the game
I'm going to be honest, I don't see the problem. None of those are unreasonable barriers to entry. Those who put more at risk, and are more diligent, should profit. Hell, the POS manufacturing speed bonus to ammunition alone made it more than worth it to me to have one in present times. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 20:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Volar Kang wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:
In my opinion, the costs of a POS are not too low... the cost of infinite station S&I is too cheap.
DUDE! In one sentence you summed up everything I was trying to say.
You guys do realize the extremely non-trivial bonuses to manufacturing speed on certain POS structures are likely to still be a thing after this hits, right? ME isn't everything. Suit yourselves though. |
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