| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
General Apocalypse
   |
Posted - 2006.05.21 06:31:00 -
[1]
NO CAPACITOR NEED FOR PROJECTILE TURRESTS ?
Now that's overpowered. Why ? Because Minmatar will become IMUNE to nos and neutralize . I just whnadar if they use no capacitor. How are the guns pointed to the target ? By hand ?
I hope we can block this monster before it's going to be unleashed on TQ . Pls. post your opinions .
[/url]
|
Neban
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 06:32:00 -
[2]
Wasn't it reduced from 1 point?
|
Copine Callmeknau
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 06:33:00 -
[3]
Oh yeah, because beforehand you could easily win a fight with no capacitor to tank with 
-------
With five million sheep in this army
I seem to be the only one fit to command
|
xeom
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 06:38:00 -
[4]
YES FINNALY WHAT MINMATAR NEEDED!!!!!!
Unnoticable different to be honest.I would have rathered the removed off the whole split system from the phoon.
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? |
ELECTR0FREAK
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 07:11:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: General Apocalypse
NO CAPACITOR NEED FOR PROJECTILE TURRESTS ?
Now that's overpowered. Why ? Because Minmatar will become IMUNE to nos and neutralize . I just whnadar if they use no capacitor. How are the guns pointed to the target ? By hand ?
I hope we can block this monster before it's going to be unleashed on TQ . Pls. post your opinions .[/url]
Guns move using the power supplied to them through powergrid. Thats why they use powergrid. Capacitor has nothing to do with it. Weapons like lasers and hybrids need capacitor because they need more than just the power supplied to them for turning the turret to fire. Projectiles however use a chemical combustion much in the same way a gun fires a bullet (though artillery are rocket-guided).
As for the whole "OMG THEY ARE IMMUNE TO NOSFERATU" arguement, it's about time something besides missiles didn't require cap. Nosferatus are overpowered and overused in combat anyhow, so this is a good balancing move.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Locke Ateid
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 07:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
NO CAPACITOR NEED FOR PROJECTILE TURRESTS ?
Now that's overpowered. Why ? Because Minmatar will become IMUNE to nos and neutralize . I just whnadar if they use no capacitor. How are the guns pointed to the target ? By hand ?
I hope we can block this monster before it's going to be unleashed on TQ . Pls. post your opinions .
[/url]
Try using projectile weapons before you start complaining how overpowered they'll be. Right now, they suck compared to lasers and hybrids when DPS comes to play. At this present moment, they need every advantage they can get.
And don't get me started with how bad TomB 'over-nerf' their tracking back in Castor...
|
Caldar Rion
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 08:35:00 -
[7]
I'm sure there will be many of these topics in the upcoming weeks, but I figure I'll throw my two cents at this one and then go back to lurking.
Basically the cap drain on projectile weapons was unnoticable anyways. Like, 1 cap per fire. I honestly thought that it was just something that Tech II projectiles had, but I guess the medium and large Tech I guns had between 1 and 2 cap usage per firing.
So in summary - nos didn't really stop us from shooting anyways. I take this as basically just cleaning up something that wasn't working as designed. |
General Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 08:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Nosferatus are overpowered and overused in combat anyhow, so this is a good balancing move.
If nosferatus is overpower redesign ships that are made 2 fit nosferatus. Give them new bonuses before making ships imune 2 nosferatu .
[/url]
|
Reatu Krentor
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 09:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Nosferatus are overpowered and overused in combat anyhow, so this is a good balancing move.
If nosferatus is overpower redesign ships that are made 2 fit nosferatus. Give them new bonuses before making ships imune 2 nosferatu .
spec. in minmatar for a year and only use minmatar ships, then you can come back and complain(which you prolly won't)
-
phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
|
Quari Nimbles
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 09:15:00 -
[10]
Hi. No cap to fire guns != immune to nosferatu. Matari tanks still require cap just like everything else, as do our sensor boosters, tracking computers, harderners, afterburners, scramblers, jammers, dampeners, webifiers and more.
|
ELECTR0FREAK
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 09:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Nosferatus are overpowered and overused in combat anyhow, so this is a good balancing move.
If nosferatus is overpower redesign ships that are made 2 fit nosferatus. Give them new bonuses before making ships imune 2 nosferatu .
[/url]
Laughable. Any ship can fit Nosferatu. It's not the ships DESIGNED to fit Nosferatu that are the problem. The problem is in PVP, you're seeing more and more setups that rely upon Nos to win. It's easy, as Nos doesn't have any real counters. And unless your enemy had missile launchers, all you had to do was tank him until you could drain his cap, stopping him from tanking or firing. Then you just slowly killed him at your leisure. There's nothing new or original about it.
More and more people are just fitting PVP setups to do this, instead of using interesting and different combat methods. Its generally a pretty easy win. Nice to see that the Devs are finally putting some counters in the game for them. Now Amarr are now the only race with no effective counter to Nos (other than range obviously), but this is pretty fairly balanced by their Nos-based Recon ships. Gallente have Drones, Caldari have Missiles, Minmatar now have Projectiles. All can continue to fire after the target has had its cap drained.
Nos really should just be a form of EW, not a win button.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Daos Leghki
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 09:29:00 -
[12]
This isn't really on topic, but I fail to see how the Amarr vulnerability to Nos is balanced by a ship not used by the majority of the Amarr population. That said, the 1 cap doesn't really unbalance the Minnies. Furthermore, there are counters to nos, you simply choose not to fit them.
|
Eximius Josari
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 09:32:00 -
[13]
I would rather have an 8th gun on my geddon than 1 Heavy Nos II.
Click Above |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 09:42:00 -
[14]
Current situation:
Small projectiles: No Cap used
Medium projectiles: Some use low cap, some use no cap. (Cap use is so low nossing doesn't stop them.)
Large projectiles: Use low cap (so low nossing doesn't stop them.)
The only ship actually gaining something out of the change is the vagabond.
Please raise a hand when your weapons on your Vagabond can be stopped by nossing at the current AC-cap-consumption.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Elaine Threepwood
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 10:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tachy
Current situation:
Small projectiles: No Cap used
Medium projectiles: Some use low cap, some use no cap. (Cap use is so low nossing doesn't stop them.)
Large projectiles: Use low cap (so low nossing doesn't stop them.)
The only ship actually gaining something out of the change is the vagabond.
Please raise a hand when your weapons on your Vagabond can be stopped by nossing at the current AC-cap-consumption.
My vagabonds guns regularly get stopped by domis, my tempest doesn't fare much better. I'm afraid you're wrong.
|
ELECTR0FREAK
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 10:25:00 -
[16]
If you fight an experienced vamper who is good at staggering his Nos, he can indeed shut down the use of your projectile guns.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Reatu Krentor
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 10:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
If you fight an experienced vamper who is good at staggering his Nos, he can indeed shut down the use of your projectile guns.
use named projectiles on vagabond and they will never stop(untill the ship dies or runs out of ammo)
-
phew! dodged the mods on this sig!
|
Wrayeth
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 11:03:00 -
[18]
Projectile guns don't track at all. I thought everyone knew that.
-miss-
-miss-
-miss-
-miss-
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
|
schurem
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 11:11:00 -
[19]
Kitage ftw. I dont see the problem really (nor the gain for that matter)
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
Typhoon for the win. Nastier than whats faster, faster than whats nastier! |
Calisto Lockhart
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 11:27:00 -
[20]
"Minmatar and how do their guns track a target"
crows nest?
The Black Swan Society
|
Kaeten
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 11:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 21/05/2006 09:36:34
Oh yeah, totally immune now! It's not like you need cap to run a tank or anything
no you don't if you run paltes/extenders
|
Kaeten
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 11:30:00 -
[22]
well tbh i think they should at least require 1 cap to be abel to shoot as they aren't exactly ingnited by thin air, you need a little cap you operate the little pin that hits the backend of the projectile for it to explode forcing it out.
Misles however are tottaly self propelled so 0 cap for em is fine.
|
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 11:33:00 -
[23]
It seems that some people only consider the game balanced when the nos + ecm combo can kill any possible fitting. Does it merely give a sense of security to uncreative people or is it an evidence that specific counters to many mods are missing, with as a consequence too versatile and powerful counters to too many things (ecm and nos namely) ?
Way too many mods require a lock and cap, which is a very important factor (but not the only one) for the current ecm-nos trend, on domis and other ships. Anything that decrease the versatility of those mods is good in my book, regardless of the race or ship size.
NB.
|
CptEagle
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 15:00:00 -
[24]
Now projectile ammo need to be much more expensive since they also include the energy need to be fired. While the other races need that energy from the cap. It would be fair! 
|
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 15:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CptEagle
Now projectile ammo need to be much more expensive since they also include the energy need to be fired. While the other races need that energy from the cap. It would be fair!
Have you ever considered the stupid ammo consumption of autocannons?
NB.
|
Sophia Kasta
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 15:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CptEagle
Now projectile ammo need to be much more expensive since they also include the energy need to be fired. While the other races need that energy from the cap. It would be fair!
Except missiles.
|
Deathbarrage
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 15:23:00 -
[27]
after patch when you meet a nosf domi, which has retarded dmg output but doesn't need it cuz his enemy can't shoot/tank so he can just sit back and relax, the nosfdomi will find out ''hey wtf the sleipnir is still hitting me with 700DPS even tho i have 4 heavy nosf and 2 medium neuts on him, oh nvm I'm dead, bye''
|
Anarkia Evangel
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 15:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
after patch when you meet a nosf domi, which has retarded dmg output but doesn't need it cuz his enemy can't shoot/tank so he can just sit back and relax, the nosfdomi will find out ''hey wtf the sleipnir is still hitting me with 700DPS even tho i have 4 heavy nosf and 2 medium neuts on him, oh nvm I'm dead, bye''
Nothing is ever that straight forward.
|
Serj Darek
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
NO CAPACITOR NEED FOR PROJECTILE TURRESTS ?
Now that's overpowered. Why ? Because Minmatar will become IMUNE to nos and neutralize . I just whnadar if they use no capacitor. How are the guns pointed to the target ? By hand ?
I hope we can block this monster before it's going to be unleashed on TQ . Pls. post your opinions .
[/url]
TEH SKY IS FALLING!!!!111ONEONE
Fix the Typhoon description! 3 years in the making!
|
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
after patch when you meet a nosf domi, which has retarded dmg output but doesn't need it cuz his enemy can't shoot/tank so he can just sit back and relax, the nosfdomi will find out ''hey wtf the sleipnir is still hitting me with 700DPS even tho i have 4 heavy nosf and 2 medium neuts on him, oh nvm I'm dead, bye''
... exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. If the ecm nos domi can't kill a ship, the ship isn't balanced. 
And even so, the ecm nos domi will kick the ass of the sleipnir without a doubt.
NB.
|
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:29:00 -
[31]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
NO CAPACITOR NEED FOR PROJECTILE TURRESTS ?
Now that's overpowered. Why ? Because Minmatar will become IMUNE to nos and neutralize .
Yeah, just like the Raven and Cerberus!
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
xeom
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:50:00 -
[32]
People must be getting stupider on these forums.It makes almost no difference.It was almost next to impossible already to shut down minmatars guns.The main advantagea NOS ship has is that they force thier opponents tank to die.
Remeber people missles don't use cap either and the raven is equaly pwned by the domi.
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? |
Deathbarrage
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:55:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Deathbarrage
after patch when you meet a nosf domi, which has retarded dmg output but doesn't need it cuz his enemy can't shoot/tank so he can just sit back and relax, the nosfdomi will find out ''hey wtf the sleipnir is still hitting me with 700DPS even tho i have 4 heavy nosf and 2 medium neuts on him, oh nvm I'm dead, bye''
... exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. If the ecm nos domi can't kill a ship, the ship isn't balanced.
And even so, the ecm nos domi will kick the ass of the sleipnir without a doubt.
NB.
Not quite true a friend of mine's sleipnir was killed only by the fact his cap was drained and he couldn't shoot anymore
|
Dark Silver
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:55:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kaeten
well tbh i think they should at least require 1 cap to be abel to shoot as they aren't exactly ingnited by thin air, you need a little cap you operate the little pin that hits the backend of the projectile for it to explode forcing it out.
Misles however are tottaly self propelled so 0 cap for em is fine.
And how does the missile ignite its fuel to propell itself?
|
Baalic
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 17:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CptEagle
Now projectile ammo need to be much more expensive since they also include the energy need to be fired. While the other races need that energy from the cap. It would be fair!
Medium t1 autocannons cost 1-2 isk per 1 point of damage inflicted.
Heavy missiles cost about 1 isk per 5 damage and also use no cap.
|
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 17:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
Not quite true a friend of mine's sleipnir was killed only by the fact his cap was drained and he couldn't shoot anymore
You point being...
I'm sorry but really I don't understand what you are trying to prove. That he should have died because the domi had nos ? I don't get it.
NB.
|
Roland De'chain
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 19:51:00 -
[37]
Really don't see the problem, people are claiming that an AC boat will be able to kill nossing ships i don't see how, see below for reason:
You have any idea how difficult it is to kill a ship when you don't have the cap to scram it? or web it for that matter?
Heaven forbid people should think of such cunning ways to avoid destruction. Or if you dont want to warp out take the following steps:
1) Take said nossing bs use ab/mwd to move into a 15km orbit of the unfortunate munnin, command ship, whatever
2) keep enemy nossed so he cant mwd/ab away from you keep him scrammed watch the pitiful DPS AC's will do to you at 15km'and laugh as your waves of drones eat said ship alive because it doesnt have any cap left to tank.
Nos should not be a 'no thought required' i win button...
|
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:18:00 -
[38]
quite funny....
now if an AC to fire use 30-50 i agree that the change will be a good boost...
but considering that a 800mm ac use 3 cpu to fire it's really quite silly to complain about that...
even with many NOS is quite difficult to keep another ship full depleted, nosses have a "refire rate" while the capacitator recharge every second, so yes when the nos hit the cap will go to 0, but in the next second the ship will recharge a bit...
i can't say that nosses atm have 0 influence on AC, but nothing more than to press a button or 2 when (eventually) they will be put offline.
also is not that AC are so uber weapons... they have very bad tracking, low dps and low burst damage....
|
Cilppiz
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:27:00 -
[39]
Somehow I get the feeling that point of this whole topic is that Nosferatu fitted Dominix wont be same pwnmobile againts Matari ships it used to be? 
una salus victis nullam sperare salutem |
Cmd Woodlouse
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
NO CAPACITOR NEED FOR PROJECTILE TURRESTS ?
Now that's overpowered. Why ? Because Minmatar will become IMUNE to nos and neutralize . I just whnadar if they use no capacitor. How are the guns pointed to the target ? By hand ?
I hope we can block this monster before it's going to be unleashed on TQ . Pls. post your opinions .
[/url]
missiles also dont use any cap.
go figure
--------------------------------
|
Flash Landsraad
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:58:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Calisto Lockhart
"Minmatar and how do their guns track a target"
crows nest?
Yaaarrrr 
|
Olirtad Fiven
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:59:00 -
[42]
why is this thread still on first page?!
|
Wicaeed
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 22:14:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Locke Ateid
Try using projectile weapons before you start complaining how overpowered they'll be. Right now, they suck compared to lasers and hybrids when DPS comes to play. At this present moment, they need every advantage they can get.
And don't get me started with how bad TomB 'over-nerf' their tracking back in Castor...
I'll remember this next time a Tempest two volleys my Prophecy into structure, or one volleys my Hulks shields with 80% resist all around.
If Mimmitar want DPS, then every other race gets an alpha strike battle ship.
|
Akip
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 22:21:00 -
[44]
I run out my cap few times in my Sleipnir and my guns stopped (I was not nossed).
7x 220mm t2 ACs uses 1 cap every 1.39 seconds
that's a lot cap/second (5.03 cap /sec) it is like running 10mn t2 AB all the time
I don't see a point that projectiles should use cap for firing? does M16 or AK47 need cap? ;)
I'm happy with 0 cap for proj. guns
--------
Akip
Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Watch Post, wrecking for 1557.5 damage. |
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 22:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Wicaeed
Originally by: Locke Ateid
Try using projectile weapons before you start complaining how overpowered they'll be. Right now, they suck compared to lasers and hybrids when DPS comes to play. At this present moment, they need every advantage they can get.
And don't get me started with how bad TomB 'over-nerf' their tracking back in Castor...
I'll remember this next time a Tempest two volleys my Prophecy into structure, or one volleys my Hulks shields with 80% resist all around.
If Mimmitar want DPS, then every other race gets an alpha strike battle ship.
this can be true for a tempest using 1400mm and t2 ammo, but is not the case discussed here... i don't think that the tempest was in close/nosfy range
for a snipest a nosferatu is probably the last thing to worry, first because it generally sits at 100-200 km (and nosfy range is 20-30)
second because such config have gnerally poor tanking and if an enemy bs get near they will have way more troubles from normal guns than from nosfy :P
this supposed boost influence mostly the autocannons as is the short range weapons... and if you look at autocannons you will see they have not a big alpha strike as arty
in comparsion with hybrid we can see that AC lack both in burst/alpha strike (if i remember right hybrid do around x2 dmg/shot), lower DPS and lower traking
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |