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Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
If anyone caught the stream earlier, fozzie stated that we are finally getting a balance wave for some of the T3 subsystem that are currently unused.
Anyone else excited? T3s have been my favourite ship addition since their introduction. This deserves a discussion thread! Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privalage.-á |

Apollo Purvon
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is obviously an attempt to manipulate the market for this guy's own profit. |

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3106
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
T3 rebalancing has been on the to do list for a while. It was merely pushed down the line until T1, T2 and faction rebalance was done. That being mostly done, T3s are next. And boy will there be tears. Better stock up on Station Warehouses to collect them. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |

Tengu Grib
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm pretty excited myself. Changes to T3's could bring some interesting new gameplay. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |

Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gonna be awesome isn't it? They should be ship-of-the-line for big alliance subcaps, expensive, lethal but all thats really worth using at the moment are the niche point proteus and webbing loki. I guess you get the odd slippery pete tengu but damn I want a reason to fly more of em Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privalage.-á |

Apollo Purvon
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
I feel like you're holding a lot of isk in little-used subsystems and you want us to buy them so the value of your investment goes up. I feel like you're trying to use us. |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2881
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
We all know that the T3's are about to be nerfed in oblivion. The geniuses in charge feel that T3's should be jack of all trades, master of none. And we all know how well that works in the Eve universe.
I have a Loki and Proteus, both of which I have loved flying. Proteus was a mini-marauder mission / low sec boat (have not flown it since the first Omni nerf made it useless), and the Loki was a low sec exploration boat (was out cruising this morning in it).
Both ships will have no use whatsoever after fozzie is done "loving them".
Not that it matters in the overall scheme of things. High sec missions and incursions will be obliterated next (just like high sec / low sec industry just was), so the majority of the player base won't have an opportunity to use them anyway.
That is, until they submit to the yoke of the cartels. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thank god, finally. Here is to hoping the Legion covert subsystem gets an at least small damage bonus. (I have several PVP-fittings I want to try, but I can either get anemic damage or a paper-thin tank with slightly less anemic damage on my cloaky Legion. That's no fun.) |

Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
There's loads of stuff that 'jack of all trades' is great for if done right, look at the stratios. Especially now we have mobile depots for refitting. T3's better subsystems will need a little nerf of course, but if they could re-fit on the fly like a carrier they would see plenty more uses. They would go from being basically HACs to allowing some of the different playstyles fozzie was talking about.
Imagine a squad of cloaky nullified tengus that could refit on the fly depending on the situation. They would never be as good at any role as a dedicated T2 variant but they could adapt to any battlefield scenario making versatility a credible choice. Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privalage.-á |

Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:There's loads of stuff that 'jack of all trades' is great for if done right, look at the stratios. Especially now we have mobile depots for refitting. T3's better subsystems will need a little nerf of course, but if they could re-fit on the fly like a carrier they would see plenty more uses. They would go from being basically HACs to allowing some of the different playstyles fozzie was talking about.
Imagine a squad of cloaky nullified tengus that could refit on the fly depending on the situation. They would never be as good at any role as a dedicated T2 variant but they could adapt to any battlefield scenario making versatility a credible choice.
I already do this with mobile depots. The trouble is of course, even with just three spare subsystems and a depot I'm already running out of cargo space. |

Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
609
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
I hope the Laser Legion is competitive after the T3 balancing. It sucks so hard atm  Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2327
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
So much work needs to be done, there are useless subs, and sub system combinations that need help due to terrible slot layout after they are combined. -á --á |

Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
162
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Here's what I project will happen:
-Defensive subs, excepting the adaptives, will get their resists knocked down to force recon level. 10% rep bonuses will get knocked down to 7.5%, if nerfs aren't too hard, they might get something nice added like cap usage bonuses for reps.
-Offensive subs will get nerfed slightly; you'll see 7.5% bonuses get knocked down to 5%. Higher damage modifiers might be used to compensate, specifically on the Tengu. Loki will get its split weapons system either changed to a straight missile one with an explosive damage equivalent of the Tengu, or keep the split but have more gun and missile slots to balance better. Legion will likely get a range bonus added for its missiles, and keep the current lackluster missile dps.
-Electronic mods will be interesting. It is entirely likely that they will swap the cloak subsystem from offensive over to electronic, namely rolling it into the locus analyzer sub. Short of this, they will either move around or change the cloaky offensive sub, i.e. amarr and gallente getting their cloak sub getting moved over to drones, and improve the original subs with tracking speed and/or firing rate bonuses. I can see certain subs like the dissolution sequencer and locus analyzer subs along with the ewar ones getting a heavy nerf. Legion neuts will likely see a decent buff.
-Propulsion subs will likely get a slight buff. Subs that increase ab speed will see a decent increase, and mwd subs that help with sig and cap will also see a buff. Grav capacitor rigs might be changed somewhat into focusing a little more on travel time, and nullifiers will stay the same.
-Engineering subs will either be left alone apart from slight numerical tweaks, or have their secondary combat effects removed.
These changes will result in the ships generally having less power than equivalent t2 hacs for their offensive and defensive purposes, less ewar usability than recon, but will perform in a wider capacity than either of them ever possibly could. They just won't have stupidly large tanks |

Tetsuo Tsukaya
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
364
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Here's what I project will happen:
-Defensive subs, excepting the adaptives, will get their resists knocked down to force recon level. 10% rep bonuses will get knocked down to 7.5%, if nerfs aren't too hard, they might get something nice added like cap usage bonuses for reps.
-Offensive subs will get nerfed slightly; you'll see 7.5% bonuses get knocked down to 5%. Higher damage modifiers might be used to compensate, specifically on the Tengu. Loki will get its split weapons system either changed to a straight missile one with an explosive damage equivalent of the Tengu, or keep the split but have more gun and missile slots to balance better. Legion will likely get a range bonus added for its missiles, and keep the current lackluster missile dps.
-Electronic mods will be interesting. It is entirely likely that they will swap the cloak subsystem from offensive over to electronic, namely rolling it into the locus analyzer sub. Short of this, they will either move around or change the cloaky offensive sub, i.e. amarr and gallente getting their cloak sub getting moved over to drones, and improve the original subs with tracking speed and/or firing rate bonuses. I can see certain subs like the dissolution sequencer and locus analyzer subs along with the ewar ones getting a heavy nerf. Legion neuts will likely see a decent buff.
-Propulsion subs will likely get a slight buff. Subs that increase ab speed will see a decent increase, and mwd subs that help with sig and cap will also see a buff. Grav capacitor rigs might be changed somewhat into focusing a little more on travel time, and nullifiers will stay the same.
-Engineering subs will either be left alone apart from slight numerical tweaks, or have their secondary combat effects removed.
These changes will result in the ships generally having less power than equivalent t2 hacs for their offensive and defensive purposes, less ewar usability than recon, but will perform in a wider capacity than either of them ever possibly could. They just won't have stupidly large tanks
If they nerf the repping ability of T3s it'll seriously impact wormhole PVE because there aren't really a lot of viable alternatives to fill that role's requirements |

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
190
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Just let me used saved fittings with a mobile depot and I don't care how hard you nerf my tengu's damage. Or let a T3 re-fit without the use of a mobile depot... that would be awesome! Warning: Sarcasm Above. |

Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
656
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
T3 rebalance nerf in 3...2...1...
GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |

Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Allowing T3s refit of rigs would be another possibility. With all those theoretical subsystem combinations, you have to either stick to a few you prefer and make the rigs as universal as possible, or rip them out and replace them then rip them out and replace then rip them out and replace them...
You get the drift. |

Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3414
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:T3 rebalance nerf in 3...2...1GǪ "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of Legion and Proteus pilots suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something wonderful has happened."
 I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Soldarius wrote:T3 rebalance nerf in 3...2...1GǪ "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of Legion and Proteus pilots suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something wonderful has happened." 
Not sure you'll find thousands of Legion pilots.
We all know the main 6-5 subsystems need toning down a touch. I think T3's power should be the ability to be reactionary. With T2 you pick the best ship for the job. If T3's lost slots being tied to subsystems, and could switch them on the fly without depots (With some penalty - emptying capacitor and shutting down engines so it couldn't be used mid engagement) being a swiss army knife starts to work.
Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privalage.-á |

Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3414
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:Not sure you'll find thousands of Legion pilots. Pliots, yes; ships, probably not as much... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1426
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 20:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
they could do with some range on their logi subs
stronger drone proteus and missile loki. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |

Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1232
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 20:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Soldarius wrote:T3 rebalance nerf in 3...2...1GǪ "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of Legion and Proteus pilots suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something wonderful has happened."  Not sure you'll find thousands of Legion pilots. We all know the main 6-5 subsystems need toning down a touch. I think T3's power should be the ability to be reactionary. With T2 you pick the best ship for the job. If T3's lost slots being tied to subsystems, and could switch them on the fly without depots (With some penalty - emptying capacitor and shutting down engines so it couldn't be used mid engagement) being a swiss army knife starts to work. unless you give T3 a couple hudnred extar M3 in cargo, you CANT make them be able to truly swap on the fly,a s modules for fitting are freaking huge. and they cant be reactionary, because you cant refit mid fight.
Not only that, if there WHOLE BONUS is being weaker than T2 but "reactionary", no one will use them EVER, because that just emans to "use them as they are intended" your required to carry 5 ships worth of fitting mods you arent even using, in a ship weaker than a T2 of the same job.
not to mention any significant damage or defense nerf to T3's would make wormholes into 0.0 levels of invulnerable coalition space, as invading a C5/C6 would be impossible, as you woudl be required to either ering in weak-cruisers or battleships, either one getting obliterated by the limitless defensive force, T3's allowing both damage and mass for wormhole sieging. |

Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 20:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Well the beauty of a re-balance is problems like subsystems cargo size can be addressed. They could get a dedicated bay, for example.
Yeah, T3 will be weaker than a T2 doing the same job. A legion shouldn't be a better AHAC than a legion, a Loki shouldn't be a better webber than a huginn. It should be damn near as good, however, and switching roles should be possible on the fly to make up for it. If you know what your facing, undock T2, if you aren't sure undock T3 and adapt. That's how I think it should go at least... Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privalage.-á |

unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
108
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 21:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
T3's are in need of a buff! Absolutly no one is using them , only wormholers use them. If you make them weaker then t2 no one will be using t3's. T3's would become useless. Even if they can switch faster from dps, to logi to ecm fits then a maurauder goes into deployment mode no one would use them. Because fleets use fixed ships with fixed jobs. Absolutly no one would be changing anything in the middle of a fight. The only reason to make T2's bether then T3's is to destroy wormholes so that only the null sec cartels rule eve. Even now most shield ships are bether then T3's shield ships, and geuss what no one uses shields on T3's unless you pve... . And even now a loki webs worse then a huggin, a tengu is worse at ECM'ing then a falcon, a proteus is worse at pointing long range then a arazu, a legion is worse a neuting then a pilgrim.... . All damage is even worse then T2 ships and the range is even worse. The only thing t3's have over T2 ships is tank and that is IT. The best thing that needs to happen is make useless subsystems usefull. I would rather have them remove local in nullsec and add mobile deployables to turn off gates. |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1428
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 22:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
T3's are very popular lol
proteus and legions are like premier station game ships. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |

Circumstantial Evidence
114
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 22:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
I saw an all-Legion + guardian fleet, in HS incursion, last week. They get used. |

Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3418
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 22:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:proteus and legions are like premier station game ships. Yeah, it's going to totally break my heart not seeing those particular flashing yellows at the trade hubs anymoreGǪ  I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

motie one
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 00:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
watching the stream, I believe he said repeatedly and clearly not to worry they were NOT going to be nerfed.
he talked about the Rig issue and solving that, and making ALL subsystems good.
Sounds good to me. |

motie one
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 00:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:proteus and legions are like premier station game ships. Yeah, it's going to totally break my heart not seeing those particular flashing yellows at the trade hubs anymoreGǪ  Gankers gotta gank. What will they replace them with Nestors? lol. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5630
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 00:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Thank god, finally. Here is to hoping the Legion covert subsystem gets an at least small damage bonus. (I have several PVP-fittings I want to try, but I can either get anemic damage or a paper-thin tank with slightly less anemic damage on my cloaky Legion. That's no fun.)
I seriously hope so, barring being used for neuting heavy tackle, that subsystem is completely worthless.
I want a covert subsystem more along the lines of the Proteus. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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