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Confirming CCP Chatgris ninja patched cals

but seriously now
according to drama all devs are in gallente militia...

i basically did this every day until inferno came out. and it effected very little outcome in the form of pvp.

big deal. if you want to take that plex and there are hostiles around take the plex in force. with the new meta t1 logi fits i doubt anybody is gonna be at low armor or shields for long.

i clearly did not say that was the goal at all cearain. since the t1 logi alts are already in place for fw. big difference back then you needed pve ship for 20 minutes to run the plex. this is 1 minute of killing a hard NPC then moving the **** on.

All the old FW players back then werent calling for a PVE removal of FW they were calling for the proper balancing between the races rats. right so we are still gonna rely on farmers to hold our space eh? No im sorry, inferno was probably the worst thing to happen to FW. missions are hard. plexs were hard, now they are easy, its time they become hard again.

now it really is pve, you have to shoot rats, before you could just tank those now that is not possible so FW is now shooting rats...

going worse all the time...

Sad that CCP has to make bad game for actual players because of preventing botting.

it isn't really a pvp vs pve topic IMO. Its rather the fact that if you are after LP, running is more efficient then fighting. Thats a major flaw in the core design of plexing. Timer resets would make running or hiding inefficient, but you can and should still be able to run or hide if your really want.. its a sandbox after all....

Ok, reset then.

Rollback has zero effect on the issue of farming, which is what people are trying to fix. Farmer warps back immediately after the PVP pilot leaves, making it essentially exactly the same as current situation.

Timer reset sets a price for being driven out of the plex.

As a guy who has been in FW for a long time - the answer is fighting. For example: More was done to secure the warzone by recently beating the Caldari in Oicx, Enaluri, Innia, and Deven than by any number of afk plex farmers running stuff in backwater systems.

The map is not "flat" - it has terrain. And understanding that terrain is a major factor to being successful in FW. (The enemy is not defeated by taking Maintenault - it is defeated by taking Innia.) Of course, "defeat" is temporary since the Caldari can and will respawn in due time (due to FW mechanics, and willpower of the Caldari), but their recent losses have greatly affected the warzone.

I know you don't understand this stuff, but that's fine. You don't participate in FW and will therefore never "get it".

The only thing that will ever reduce farmer activity is either:

A) Make plexes harder to do.

OR

B) Make plexes less profitable.

OR

C) Some combination thereof.

Having discussions about cloaks and warp core stabs makes evasion more difficult and that is all. The plexes by themselves are still stupidly easy to do and still pay ridiculous amounts of LP that can be converted into isk. Farmers will warp off rather then cloaking. There should be some farming as it greases the wheels of FW. Too much and you bath a militia in an acid bath that drives off members in frustration. That's where we are currently.

A DPS check would reduce some farming as it makes plexes harder. I approve. A cloaking ban kills warp in traps as well as makes more difficult the cloaky logi/ ecm alt. That reduces risk and play options and I don't like it.

Lastly, there's my favorite suggestion - kill the tier system and pay everyone at current tier 2 prices. Farmers would still exist but they'd respond to scarcity in the market rather then riding LP donation wave.

There is plenty of PVP in plexes, the issue is the risk/reward and the out of balance impact that farmers have on WZ control.

Total warzone control was way after that so didnt affect the balance when we took the warzone for complete control was after cals had held alot of it for a while......

as for making it too profitable now ... i dont get this i could earn 5 times what i earn now bk then

No doubt damarrs tinfoil hattery will explode now funkybacon is on the csm

The problem with dual timers is that all it does is make it slightly less soul-crushing to counter plex. But it does nothing to make the current plex-by-evasion system less effective. The point is to stimulate conflict. Having to fight for your LP stimulates conflict, which is I thought what FW was about. Timer rollbacks force everyone to have more of a stake in a plex fight. Personally I'd like to see LP only given out for offensive plexing when a system flips, but CCP is too chickenshit to actually do that.

2-3 fights per plex in every system? Not possible or realistic - simply due to the amount of players vs amount of systems in Eve.

2-3 fights per plex in a contested system on the front? It happens all of the time. I think you were gone at the time, but it was an absolute 23/7 bloodbath in Innia-Eha-Oicx area for an extended period of time. Frankly, I miss it.

This guy clearly doesn't know what a JUSTK dragoon/Algos fleet with logi frig support is capable of. I employ you sir to come over to Eha and try it sometime

No it does not (XGallentius is missing this point as well). Maintaining the status quo by simply driving someone out of a plex is a victory for the defenders in a way that it is not for the attackers. The defender needs only maintain the status quo to succeed in his defense while the attacker cannot achieve anything without actually taking plexes. Timer rollbacks provide a huge force multiplier but only to the defender. X was arguing that running a timer is a punishment and that it is not fair to expect the defender to run a timer when they have already won the engagement. My question is why should this principle not also apply to the attackers - win engagement, take plex. It is obvious why this should not happen with attackers but the fact that the proposed mechanism will be fundamentally imbalanced in providing a massive advantage to the defender only tells you all you need to know about why it is inherently flawed.

That has nothing to do really with CCP. A lot of that has to do with inflation on ship prices and not actually having the means to make ISK in accordance with the inflation. Yes, some people are beyond rich and it's not a matter for them. For others, it makes most people risk averse and not as willing to go out true solo'ing or willing to take a fight they might lose.

For example, 4 years ago when a Dominix was only 45mil for the hull and about 65mil fully fit (no rigs back then as triple trimarks cost the same as the hull) I could run a few havens in nullsec, i.e. about 40mins of work, and that would pay for my Dominix and a few cruiser/battle cruiser hulls. Now I have to spend 3x/4x more time to make the same ISK to do the same thing. So I don't go roaming around solo in Domis anymore and I will often not take a fight I'm not sure I'll win if I'm in something expensive. That's the real reason you don't see people out roaming as often. Hitting that tier 3 gate camp with 4x guardians in your Dominix in today's EvE means spending a few hours grinding to make the ISK back as opposed to 30mins like in the past. Fix that and you'll see people more inclined to do stupid things with their ships again

...
We can all go out and find fights very quickly in FW. That is not an issue. The reason that farmers are so detested is the mandatory defensive plexing that goes along with them. Your home system might be strong in Euro and US TZ. If you're weak in Aussie time though - when people start logging back on you could be looking at 10% - 16% contested. ....

Plex mechanics should not be modified with the intent of making FW plex easier to capture. That's what double timers and faster timer counts on rollback would do. Time to contest the plex should also give opportunities for pilots to reship and come back. I may bail from a fight that's a bad matchup, but intend to return for a more even fight.

On the other hand, if I run someone out of a plex I want them to be able to have that same chance. If I actually want to run the plex, I can stay there and deal with the time they've run up. With normal rollbacks, I might decide to pop another one in the system while the first plex rolls back to 0, then run it. These mechanics would be fair to both sides.