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Diane Chasseresse
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:28:00 -
[1]
Hello,
I am preparing my first battlecruiser (a Prophecy) for level 3 missions. I would love to be able to fit a 10MN Afterburner, a Webifier and two Cap Rechargers in the mid slots but unfortunately, this ship only has 3 of them :(
So, my question is: what could I sacrifice for those missions without ruining my chances of success? The Afterburber, the Webifier or one of the two Cap Rechargers?
I am only using T1 items atm except for the Armor Repairer and I would prefer to fit medium turrets for DPS in the hi slots instead of small ones (hence the Webifier).
Thank you, Ambre.
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Aleph Freaz
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:48:00 -
[2]
I like you went Amarr and was very interested in running missions. After having a relatively easy time in Level 2 missions, I took an uninsured Prophecy into a couple of Level 3 missions that went ok -- until I got warp jammed and blasted to tiny bits. I've asked around in the Help channel alot and the split has always been approx. 30% in favor / 70% against trying to do level 3s' in a BC. I'm a two month old player that has approx 1.4m SP spread all over the place.
Most of the people I talked to in favor said it was very possible if you were willing to spend 10-20 million ISK in gear (which wouldn't be covered by insurance). The key for me was having over 7000 armor, 90% resists in NPC specific damage, and plenty of cap recharge so I could keep my armor repairer running nearly constantly. Since you have to deal with size ranges anywhere from frigates to battlecruisers, I was told it would be best to fit two Medium long range guns, two Medium powerful shorter range guns, and two Small fast anti-frigate guns. Unfortunately this spread kept my total DPS per target at about 10-20 EM+Thermal depending on the target and their range.
After losing this ( http://eveinfo.com/missions/169/ ) particular mission repeatedly, I started taking peoples advice and bought over 15.m in gear, and I was able to complete it. The second phase is what gave me trouble, I warp accelerator'd into a ring of sentry cannons and ships. All in all this mission took me six days and dozens of tries. Talk about not knowing when to quit.
So after getting that two parter, I assumed I had just beaten the hardest mission Level 3 had to offer - being placed point-blank with a ton of sentry cannons (which can hit you over 100km away) and a couple of BCs which do nice DPS by themselves isn't exactly easy.
So then I got this mission - http://eveinfo.com/missions/158/ - and I thought easy! I'll kill the miners, then the other guys will show up, etc, just like in all the other level 2's I've done. Not so! The miners were there, and then both of the other waves spawned before I killed the first miner. Look closely, those mobs had warp jammers. I didn't notice that. After a valiant last stand, I went poof pretty hard and decided to quit Level 3 missions solo unless I was at least in a BS or had WAY more SP.
Check this out! http://eveinfo.com/missions/
Please prove me wrong and a total idiot and kick butt in Level 3's Obviously no advice on AB or Web without knowing the rest of your build, if you're using 6 heavy beams and no drones you'll need the web.
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Ambre Blanche
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:04:00 -
[3]
I would use 2 Hammerhead drones but they will not save me if 70% of the population here think you need a Battleship to solo level 3 missions :(
I am a fairly new player (about 3M SP) and I already spend DAYS and DAYS of mining to gather enough money (around 35 M ISK) to fit what I thought would be a fun and viable ship. There is no way I will continue to do this for months just to be able to buy a Battleship. I guess this game is not for me if you are OBLIGED to be in a corporation to do anything not boring in PvE :(
Thank you very much for you answer anyway,
Ambre.
P.S. Original poster here, forgot to switch Character before posting :)
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MuffinsRevenger
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:15:00 -
[4]
i'd go with a webber, preferebly with a x5, just for safetly reasons also remeber to put 5 lights in your dronebay, they can eat the weeker frigates
and aslong as you have some form of clue on how to fly the ship plus knowlage of what you are fighting against, you won't have anny trouble taking on l3's in your prohecy
Originally by: The Wizz117 jeez those guyz @ ccp talk like sweedish nobody will take u seriouse with that cind of accent.
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gordon861
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:16:00 -
[5]
I run level 3's in a shield tanked Cyclone and have only lost one ship due to being warp scrambled. I've been playing about a month and a half, have 1.6mil SP and only use T1 equipment.
I use that site all the time to check missions before I start them (although it does need updating in places as the data is wrong), where it indicates that a ship has scramblers it is only a chance that the ship has/will use them. If you click on the ship it will show you the detailed information about it.
I also make a point of popping any ships that might stop me from escaping once my shield is down as early as possible.
The Rogue Slave Trader Mission (http://eveinfo.com/missions/169/) I found the best way to do that was as soon as you warp in align yourself towards a gate/station/planet and accelerate up to full speed. Ignore the big targets just pick one of the smaller ones and focus all your firepower on it. Your plan is to pop at least one target before you need to warp out, once you have warped out you repair your ship, make sure all guns are fully loaded and then warp back in and blow another ship. You should be able to take down one or two of the small ships or turrets each time, everytime you do go back you will have less incoming damage to deal with so will be able to loiter longer. Eventually you will be able to stay and kill them all off.
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Zaphroid Eulthran
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:36:00 -
[6]
the key to low sp lvl3 missions is a damn good tank, in general you should put your damage dealing skills later (you can boost weapons with modules if need be)
capacitor skills are a must have for all BC's (except maybe a passive missile ferox), Your racial (armour or shield) tanking skills next, im not very familiar with armour tanking so cannot go into specifics other than good hardeners + decent repair rate = good tank as far as missions are concerned. Once you have your defence sorted out you can turn to your offence, it is always a good idea to pick one maybe two weapons this avoids you needing 3 or more different optimal ranges to worry about. Due to the nature of most missions shortrange seems to be most effective.
Ok, after a little play on quickfit i got this setup
Prophecy
Heavy Pulse Laser I [1xXray M] (9Km Optimal) Heavy Pulse Laser I [1xXray M] Heavy Pulse Laser I [1xXray M] Heavy Pulse Laser I [1xXray M] Heavy Pulse Laser I [1xXray M] Heavy Pulse Laser I [1xXray M] Assault Missile Launcher I [59xPiranha Light Missile]
10MN Afterburner I Stasis Webifier I Cap Recharger I
Small Armor Repairer I Medium Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I Capacitor Power Relay I Power Diagnostic System I
2275 shield, 6.15/s, EM/Therm/Kin/Exp=0/20/40/60 3593 armor, EM/Therm/Kin/Exp=71/54/47/43 2691.0 cap, 305.47297297297297 m/s 103.4 DPS
I have used all T1 non named modules as these are always available, it is advisable to replace these with named/T2 modules as soon as skills/wallet allows This setup allows the small repper, webbifier and all weapons to be run continiously, the capacitor balances out at about 45% (33% being max recharge), i have not included drones but you have enough room for 5 light drones I used two multi spec hardeners (energised adaptive nano)so switch these to suit the rats you are facing
These are the bare minimum skills required to fly this
Amarr Cruiser lvl 3 Electronics lvl 3 Amarr Frigate lvl 4 Energy Grid Upgrades lvl 2 Spaceship Command lvl 4 Missile Launcher Operation lvl 1 Engineering lvl 2 Battlecruisers lvl 1 Afterburner lvl 1 Science lvl 1 Navigation lvl 2 Medium Energy Turret lvl 1 Small Energy Turret lvl 3 Hull Upgrades lvl 3 Gunnery lvl 3 Repair Systems lvl 1 Mechanic lvl 2 Propulsion Jamming lvl 1
hope this helps
Warning, sig starts here,
Imperial Visions, Now 743099 seconds since our last fatality |
Quurst
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:36:00 -
[7]
Although I'm using a ferox for level 3s, I got some general advice for doing level 3 missions and how not to lose ships. You certainly don't need a battleship.
There are three things you need to do to be succesful at level 3 missions: a way to get rid of frigates, tank damage and do dps on cruisers. A webber and afterburner aren't needed for either.
On average frigates make up half the enemies you face so sacrificing some dps on cruisers isn't a bad idea. Get good drone skills first, 5 small drones with drone support skills at 3 will be more than enough to get rid of them. If you don't have good drone skills, fit 2 small weapons to help your drones out. Maybe an assault launcher and a small laser?
Having a good tank is especially important if you're starting out and don't know what you expect. Get rid of luxuries like afterburner and use all you have on the meanest tank you can fit. Remember: it's better to prevent damage than to cure it. So look up what types of damage the npcs do in that mission ( Linkage) and get your resistances to that as high as possible. Yes, at the cost of your total armor. Look in the ships and modules section for more on that.
Getting rid of cruisers is easiest, 4 or 5 medium sized weapons will do. Look in the link above to see what types of damage to npcs are least resistant and focus on that. The farthest you'll have to shoot is 30 km and most will be around 15-20 km.
When starting out on doing missions, fit one warp core stabilizer. This means you can always warp out if things go pearshaped but at least you'll have your ship. Even if 10 frigates are scrambling you, one stab will be enough. Now this will gimp your tank a little bit, but gives 100% safety against losing your ship, easy choice imho.
Look at the eyes, the eyes... |
Diane Chasseresse
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Posted - 2006.05.24 14:05:00 -
[8]
Thank you guys, I am glad to read that level 3 missions should be doable solo in a well prepared Battlecruiser :)
Zaphroid, your setting match mine (except I have 1 NOS in Hi-Slot) but I see you fit 1 medium AND 1 small armor repairer in lows. Is there any chance I will run out of repairing abilities against a strong force if I fit just a Medium Armor Repairer II?
Thank you, Ambre.
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Ditscher
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Posted - 2006.05.24 15:41:00 -
[9]
lvl3 mission are doable in a bc. it just a matter of tanking and a wise target selection.
you should really visit this site and look at the mission description. first look at the damage types of your enemys, then look at the damage type, that hurts him most, choose missles and drones, then look at the webber and scrambler friggs and make them primary. just make sure you can survive long enough to kill those ew friggs and you are able to warp out. if you can warp out, and you are able to kill at least one ship, you are able to complete the mission. and dont forget, that you beacome better and better, the more often you do a mission, the easier it gets...
btw: iŠm doing lvl4 mission in a apoc, without webber, and my medium drones kill every frigg and cruiser. if you fit medium weapons and use light drones, which should be even better against small targets, those friggs shouldnŠt be a problem anymore.
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Static Universe
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Posted - 2006.05.24 19:30:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Static Universe on 24/05/2006 19:31:09 I've done a lot of level 3s in a Proph and you won't have any problems using an afterburner. In fact, I would highly recommend one as there is a lot of travel.
My Prophecy Setup is:
5 Focused Medium Beam Lasers (Radio and MultiFreq) 1 Heavy Launcher (w/ 100 of each type of heavy missile in hold) 1 Tractor Beam
1 10mn Afterburner 1 Stasis Webifier 1 Cap Recharger
1 Med Repper 2 Rat Specific Hardeners 1 Damage Control ( or additional Hardener) 1 Cap Power Relay 1 Heat Sink
All best named you can afford.
I highly recommend training up for T2 repper and heat sink first off. Controlled burst skill to 4 also helps.
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Neemz
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Posted - 2006.05.24 20:51:00 -
[11]
Try this setup in your prophecy for running level 3's (Dropping from the expensive items/tech2 to cheap tech1 wont impact this much!)
4 Heavy Modulated Pulse Lasers (Carry Gamma/Xray and Microwave) 1 Medium Modulated Pulse Laser 2 Medium NOS
x5 Stasis Web Afterburner II Eutectic Cap recharger
Medium Repper II Ntype Thermal active hardener Ntype Kinetic active hardener Ntype Explosive active hardener Damage Controll (Pseudo Electron or Internal forcefield only) Cap Relay
The idea with this is once you turn on the hardeners and damage control you will have over 70% resists in all areas on your armor (70.42% Em, 70.42% explosive, 72.27% kinetic and 75.97% Thermal) . With my low skills (1.4m) I can run all the hardeners and the afterburner all day (stabalises at 71% cap).
You warp in and afterburn up to the closest enemy, once within 10k of it put all your guns and nos on, activate the webifier (no matter what it is!), and shut off the afterburner so your not outdoing your own tracking. Orbit at 7500m.
The two NOS will keep you VERY healthy on cap, once you hit 80% armor put the repairer on and leave it.
Rinse and repeat.
As a side note I was with a couple of friends (1 in a battleship and 1 in a battlecruiser) and I was the only one with access to the level 4 agent at the closest base. I got the mission and warped us in, I managed to tank the level4 in this long enough for them to destroy all the enemies!
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343Guiltyspark
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Posted - 2006.05.25 02:11:00 -
[12]
I use a battleship, and use neither an AB or a web. I instead use an extra large shield booster, shield boost amplifier, target painter and active shield hardners. The few times I did use a web I saw little difference in damage. I also use a tractor beam, so needing an AB isn't really needed. But, if I have larger missions with loot scattered all over the place, I'll run a smaller ships like a destroyer or cruiser in to scoop it all up after I've finished.
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Heiken Wimast
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Posted - 2006.05.25 03:06:00 -
[13]
Well im advicing dont use AB and yes u need web u cant track some small npcs if you dont web them. AB takes good amount of powergrid, i prefer use that powergrid in different ways.
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Lorette
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Posted - 2006.05.25 06:44:00 -
[14]
AB: I dont have a single ship in game that doesnt have an AB, i just cant stand to be slow . In practical use you can use it to catch ships that orbit outside your max range, you can use it to get a better transversal (stop them orbiting at full speed) and alot of other tactical stuff.
Web: i find it generally irrelvant but then i use drones for anything thats gets under 10km, which actually have a harder time killing them if they are webbed. On a ship that relies 100% on guns you might *need* one however.
Originally by: Aleph Freaz
The key for me was having over 7000 armor, 90% resists in NPC specific damage, and plenty of cap recharge so I could keep my armor repairer running nearly constantly.
Hehe thats better than what my domi has, and i use that for all lv4's (6200 armor, 74%-80% resists and an immense amount of cap recharge).
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Jane Sylari
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Posted - 2006.05.25 08:57:00 -
[15]
I can't comment on the web/ab issue but I can tell you something about the bc vs. bs thing.
I got into a dominix at about 1.3 mil sp, been running lvl 3 missions with it ever since. 4x active hardeners + 1 large accom tanks everything. And it runs forever with some cap mods. (Flying megathron now, for the looks )
So even with low sp lvl 3's are easymode in a bs, not fun but easy.
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The Passenger
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Posted - 2006.05.25 09:18:00 -
[16]
BC is really the standard ship for level 3 missions.
However with low SP there are a few basic rules you should follow
a) Avoid (or get help) for the more difficult level 3's e.g Spy Stash b) Get your drone skills up as these are your best defence against Frigates. 4 or 5 lights will deal with most of the frigates you encounter c) Fit beams so that you can fight long range and manage who you aggro d) Research the missions before you do one for the first time. Website as given above or scout in a shuttle. e) Know your rats. Know which frigates are likely to warp scramble or web you and prioritise them. Generally these will be the 25 to 30k rats. f) Align to a warp out point (station or moon etc) as soon as you enter a mission. If things go t!ts up you can get out quick. g) Either get help or do some missions with friends to start with. It is more fun and less dangerous to have some buddies along.
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Caia
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Posted - 2006.05.25 10:05:00 -
[17]
As stated above, its perfectly possible to do Level 3's in a BC. However, upgrade to a BS when you can. Even with minimal skills and using gimped equipment, these are a walk in the park.
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Valherji
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Posted - 2006.05.25 16:28:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Valherji on 25/05/2006 16:35:03 Edited by: Valherji on 25/05/2006 16:30:52 Been grinding out lvl 3 missions nicely with a Caracal cruiser and only ~1.5mil SP outside of learning skills, but mostly only because I've been abusing flinging missles out from 75km away. Most missions get torn apart. Cost for ship and equipment at ~10-12 million for the majority of missions. Add 6-8mil in equipment to do the passive shield tank missiosn.
Only very few missions give me problems (Black Market Hub, ouch), ones that warp you in the middle of more damage than a cruiser active shield tank can handle. Switching to passive tanking w/ two T2 large shield extenders makes them doable, but not without having to warp out some usually. I'm still tweaking my setup for these missions to try and not have to warp out of them.
Using only Heavy Missles I've had almost no need for a Webifier. The only problem being the very occasional Spider Drones I come across, which can be a real pain with only 2 light drones.
AB however, I couldn't live without. Nothing is worse than after a fight having to creep 50km to the next acceleration gate without an AB. And it helps being able to keep your distance at times.
Setup as follows...
5x Malkuth Heavy Missles
ABII Shield Booster II Sensor Booster I 2x Active Shield Hardeners (mission specific)
2x BCS I
I also carry 2 Tractor beams around in my cargo, and have instas set to stations in every system that missions take me to.
I don't loot at all while killing everything. Once it's all dead, I warp to the station, switch out the tractor beams, and go back and loot everything. It goes so much faster like that.
-Valherji-
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Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.05.25 22:27:00 -
[19]
I have done a lot of lvl3's in my Prophecy. The very first time I had to do some of the the harder missions very quite dangerous, but once you know what the dangerous parts are, and how to best engage, it gets much easier.
Even completed about a dozen lvl4's in my uninsured Prophecy. Had to warp out a couple of times, but always attack the jamming and webbing frigs before I engage other targets.
I have 3 Mil skill points, of which 2 Mil in learning skills, the rest fairly evenly spread around, mostly lvl2, lvl3 and a few lvl4 skills. I don't/cannot use any Tech 2.
As for the original question, don't lose the webifier or afterburner, both give you a lot of tactical flexibility, and make a lot of missions easier and faster. Just put something that recharges your cap in low, I use a capacitor power relay myself.
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Roche Pso
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:38:00 -
[20]
I use a Brutix for lvl 3 missions. They are intended for BCs arent they? Had a couple of hairy moments, but they have become more rare as my skills and modules have improved
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Andrue
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Posted - 2006.05.26 14:49:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Andrue on 26/05/2006 14:51:01 Edited by: Andrue on 26/05/2006 14:49:23 A BS should be a guaranteed L3 'win' unless you get careless. A well fitted BS piloted by someone with good skills should walk all but the hardest of missions.
I'm currently doing L3 in my Apoc because I can't be bothered with the stress of L4. I have over 30mil skill points a lot of which are in gunnery. My Apoc is T2 fitted. Downing the Slavers was a surprise the first time but last time I had it I sat and tanked the final stage while talking to someone on the telephone.
So:If you have good skills and equipment a BC should be okay but expect some of the missions to be a challenge.
Edit:For got the main question! I don't use a webber, I rely on my Wasps. I do use an A/B but that's more because of the distance I often have to go to get to the damn accelerator gate or pick up loot -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Arashi Miike
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Posted - 2006.05.27 07:13:00 -
[22]
I can do every lvl 3 mission, from Black Market Hub to Downing the Slavers to Guristas Extravaganza, solo and without having to warp out, ever, in my trusty Ferox. And I have just shy of a whopping one million SP. So yeah, I think you'll be fine.
"I should have been a pair of ragged claws/ scuttling across the floors of silent seas." |
Bermag
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Posted - 2006.05.29 12:28:00 -
[23]
a BC is about as slow (agility and speed) as a BS so IMO no reason to use a BC instead of a BS. Different if you can't use a BS of course.
Some lvl 3 is fine in a cruiser. It might require some warp out though.
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SonOfAGhost
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Posted - 2006.05.29 19:14:00 -
[24]
I won't speak to fitting a Prophecy specifically but by no means should you listen to people arguing against BCs for L3s. Rely more for advice on those that fly the same ship type rather than those that do the same missions.
Many players seem to follow the same path frigate->cruiser->BS. Spending little or no time in destroyers and BCs. Consequently they never learn to fit/fly either well and just regurgitate the same platitudes they hear from others that have failed to learn those ship types.
Some just don't have the patience to learn non-mandatory lessons on the 'bigger is better' tunnel-vision path to BS. Almost daily there's another draft-dodger alt in the noob-corp try to convince someone asking about destroyers to skip them and wait until they can fly a cruiser 'because they're paper-thin'. My experiences with a friend doing L3s in a pair of shield tanked Thrashers force me to respectfully disagree If we can do them I'm sure you should have no problem in a BC with some fine-tuning.
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Waenn Ironstaff
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Posted - 2006.05.29 19:19:00 -
[25]
Battlecruiser are fine for level 3 and allow you to chain them very easily. Just as the same it is easier and faster to do level I mission in a Destroyer.
And to answer the question in the title, you do not need an AB or Web to do them. Drones will take care of the frigs. For loot pickup, install a Tractor Beam.
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Kayle Ki
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Posted - 2006.05.29 22:26:00 -
[26]
I've done all the level 3 missions in my Cyclone.
5x 425mm autos 3x medium nos
AB Large shield Booster 3x damage specific hardeners
2x nanofiber 2x gyrostabalizer
4 medium drones
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RexMundi
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Posted - 2006.05.30 00:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kayle Ki I've done all the level 3 missions in my Cyclone.
5x 425mm autos 3x medium nos
AB Large shield Booster 3x damage specific hardeners
2x nanofiber 2x gyrostabalizer
4 medium drones
I can see a problem with this setup - how do you get rid of inties? Neither your ACs nor your med drones would be able to track them. |
Luc Daumier
Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2006.08.30 11:24:00 -
[28]
Was a while ago I did lvl3 missions. But I could do all of them in my Brutix, the Prophecy looks at least as competent a tanker as the Brutix so you shouldn't really have problems with lvl3s.
Good thing to keep in mind is that having lots of armor hp isn't an advantage in missions, you only last a little longer before you have to warp out.
What you want to aim for is to be able to be able to outrep the damage they are dealing to you. That is accomplished by active rat specific hardeners and (most often) 1 medium armor repper. A good aim is to find a fitting where you can run a medium armor repper indefinitely (preferrably with guns and webber activated). Such a tank with armor hardeners is going to be enough for pretty much any lvl3. Quickfit is _very_ nice for simulating the cap characteristics/dps of different fittings.
For particularly hard missions where you temporarily can't keep up with the damage with 1 repper it might be a good idea to fit a cap injector (with 400 or 800 charges) and a second aromor repper to be able to run 2 medium armor reppers while you kill off enough rats to be able to rep the damage with a single repper. (And if I have to chose I'd probably drop the AB to fit the cap injector.)
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.30 11:36:00 -
[29]
a case of new players not realising that sure u can train battleship up very quickly but in most cases u either need to join A PLAYER CORP THAT DOES CO OP MISSIONS or build up youre BC skills once u hit 4-5 million skillpints u should be ok
SO if youre solo once u hit level 3 decline the hard ones take the easy level 3s and to fill in the time do some level 3 missions ( courier ) now that they are back between 4 hour knockback time limits
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Maverick Aeldrin
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Posted - 2006.09.03 09:27:00 -
[30]
Some things to consider:
If you use guns and not missiles, Travel towards or away from your target so that their transversal minimizes because they are running away or towards you as well. Makes getting Well aimed and excelent shots much easier and more likely.
Keep your tank strong. Usually 2-3 active hardeners are the best way to go.
and when you read "Mission specific Hardeners" check out my new spreadsheet here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=388267
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