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Berluth Luthian
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
187
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Posted - 2014.05.08 15:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
What if we could completely destroy enemy faction I-hubs and then install our own. Then you could set an LP tax rate on top of the normal maintenance rate for tier upgrades.
The i-hub could then maybe reduce the maintenance costs for keeping it upgraded for anyone in the corp, but also increase the LP payout for anyone in the corp running plexes.
It would be a way to 'claim' the defense of a space by corps in FW. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis
Sicarius Draconis
349
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 16:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
u want that then go null sec 
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
193
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:u want that then go null sec
This. In spades.
FW is not nullsec, and we have absolutely no desire to make it closer to nullsec. |
Berluth Luthian
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
188
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Posted - 2014.05.08 19:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:ALUCARD 1208 wrote:u want that then go null sec This. In spades. FW is not nullsec, and we have absolutely no desire to make it closer to nullsec.
An annoying part of FW is that I don't think it's the hardcore farmers that pay for tier upgrades. It's typically organized alliance members. Then farmers just leech off the upgrades without having to pay for them. I was trying to come up with an idea that sort of got around this. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
194
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 20:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
I get it, I just don't think this is the direction to go is all. CCP is aware of the farming issue, and adding the decloak radius to FW buttons and respawning NPCs make it somewhat more difficult. The NPCs aren't intended to act as a deterrent, just a DPS check, which is harder to beat when you're running multiple WCS. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
2103
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 21:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
196
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 02:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks.
Nope. Go back to nullbearing. |
Taoist Dragon
Black Rebel Rifter Club
971
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 05:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks. Nope. Go back to nullbearing.
Everything in low sec should be destructible! And I want to be a **** to the FW guys as well and blap their I-hubs!!
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Capitol One
Snuff Box
142
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Posted - 2014.05.09 05:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks. Nope. Go back to nullbearing.
Sorry, I wasn't aware that shadow cartel were nullsec carebears, but are you so afraid of conflict that you'd rather avoid change than embrace new conflict drivers?
I think it's an interesting idea.
I mentioned at the fw roundtable that it would be cool if the ihubs were able to be repped by the defending militia, giving them time to organize a proper defense fleet if the enemy (e.g. a pirate faction in this case, not just the enemy militia) were attacking it. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
913
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 06:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Capitol One wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks. Nope. Go back to nullbearing. Sorry, I wasn't aware that shadow cartel were nullsec carebears, but are you so afraid of conflict that you'd rather avoid change than embrace new conflict drivers? I think it's an interesting idea. I mentioned at the fw roundtable that it would be cool if the ihubs were able to be repped by the defending militia, giving them time to organize a proper defense fleet if the enemy (e.g. a pirate faction in this case, not just the enemy militia) were attacking it.
No one want to grind EHP so the bunkers (aka. iHubs) are rarely bothered with until critical mass is achieved; be it a few dreads, a few dozen bombers or the kitchen sink blob of doom.
Point is: If a militia has the man-/stayiing power to rep the thing then they have the same to blow the offenders away. Alas, timezones are a part of FW life just as it is in null so bunkers are left for the golden hour and then dropped faster than you can reship to a frigate 10 jumps away.
Said it before, now saying it once more: EHP grind BAD. It has as much justification in a modern game as the 80's style button mashing mechanics.
Let flipping a system be a combination of time and manpower by accelerating plex spawns for a short'ish time (~ 4 hrs), yield 2x the VP, have a 10-15% overflow buffer for attacker and include something like the venerable ungated plexes.
Few wants to fight on bunkers because of the god-damn bridges and FW, being a glorified PvP tutorial, should not have to climax in capital engagement for every single system.
Effect: Rolling fights in plexes (and I suppose on gates) and lots of them, involving ships of all shapes and sizes.
Hell, one could probably even scale it based on systems in surrounds. Lone island in a hostile sea has 3-4x the plex/VP acceleration whereas a border-blip has but 1.5x .. sky is the limit if only the people with the clout were not so damn comfy on those thumbs. |
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Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
349
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 08:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
so much , too much
Just remove the donation thing for god sake , warzone control should only depends on PvP ( numbers of kills in the system or by the faction) and mostly about number of systems you get and Remove neutral docking acces unless the neutral has +5 with the faction or something
and yes Pirate faction !!!
RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
2108
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Capitol One wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks. Nope. Go back to nullbearing. Sorry, I wasn't aware that shadow cartel were nullsec carebears, but are you so afraid of conflict that you'd rather avoid change than embrace new conflict drivers? I think it's an interesting idea. I mentioned at the fw roundtable that it would be cool if the ihubs were able to be repped by the defending militia, giving them time to organize a proper defense fleet if the enemy (e.g. a pirate faction in this case, not just the enemy militia) were attacking it.
Would be fun.
I mean the Ihub in Avenod is one of the less flipped hubs i know off (I think it has only been flipped once since we moved there? by a silly bomber fleet?)
But thats totally not enough. Should be able to shoot it.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
196
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Capitol One wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks. Nope. Go back to nullbearing. Sorry, I wasn't aware that shadow cartel were nullsec carebears, but are you so afraid of conflict that you'd rather avoid change than embrace new conflict drivers? I think it's an interesting idea. I mentioned at the fw roundtable that it would be cool if the ihubs were able to be repped by the defending militia, giving them time to organize a proper defense fleet if the enemy (e.g. a pirate faction in this case, not just the enemy militia) were attacking it. Would be fun. I mean the Ihub in Avenod is one of the less flipped hubs i know off (I think it has only been flipped once since we moved there? by a silly bomber fleet?) But thats totally not enough. Should be able to shoot it.
Thing is that you're not in FW. You're pirates / neutrals / whatever, but you're not in militia. FW mechanics are for FW pilots.
Feel free to honorably third party the hell out of everything in the warzone, that's all fun and games. But you don't get to play with the same toys we do, because you've not signed on the dotted line.
The only reason for a neutral group to want to take iHUBs is to grief the FW players in the area. There's plenty of other ways to do that, plenty of other assets you can take and hold to provoke fights. |
Berluth Luthian
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
189
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 12:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Capitol One wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks. Nope. Go back to nullbearing. Sorry, I wasn't aware that shadow cartel were nullsec carebears, but are you so afraid of conflict that you'd rather avoid change than embrace new conflict drivers? I think it's an interesting idea. I mentioned at the fw roundtable that it would be cool if the ihubs were able to be repped by the defending militia, giving them time to organize a proper defense fleet if the enemy (e.g. a pirate faction in this case, not just the enemy militia) were attacking it. Would be fun. I mean the Ihub in Avenod is one of the less flipped hubs i know off (I think it has only been flipped once since we moved there? by a silly bomber fleet?) But thats totally not enough. Should be able to shoot it. Thing is that you're not in FW. You're pirates / neutrals / whatever, but you're not in militia. FW mechanics are for FW pilots. Feel free to honorably third party the hell out of everything in the warzone, that's all fun and games. But you don't get to play with the same toys we do, because you've not signed on the dotted line. The only reason for a neutral group to want to take iHUBs is to grief the FW players in the area. There's plenty of other ways to do that, plenty of other assets you can take and hold to provoke fights.
Yeah, go shoot POSes in FW space owned by FW corps if you want a conflict driver. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
2110
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Why on earth should you being in a faction have any effect on your ability to shoot a thing? Thats just dumb.
There is no good reason not to let us do it. Would create conflict, would be fun and it would make fw scrubs mad.
Surely that good for everyone involved? We get to poke FW with a stick, you get a reason to come and try to kick our asses! fights fights fights!
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
203
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why on earth should you being in a faction have any effect on your ability to shoot a thing? Thats just dumb.
There is no good reason not to let us do it. Would create conflict, would be fun and it would make fw scrubs mad.
Surely that good for everyone involved? We get to poke FW with a stick, you get a reason to come and try to kick our asses! fights fights fights!
Join FW, shoot hubs, we shoot you. Seems fair.
At the moment, you have no risk of losing access to assets and all that, have plenty of targets, and don't have to deal with any of the other downsides of being in FW. You want to shoot iHUBs and play in FW proper, then pick a side and sign up. We've got no interest in expanding your ability to grief people just because you have no interest in sacking up and picking a side. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2201
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:
Thing is that you're not in FW. You're pirates / neutrals / whatever, but you're not in militia. FW mechanics are for FW pilots.
Feel free to honorably third party the hell out of everything in the warzone, that's all fun and games. But you don't get to play with the same toys we do, because you've not signed on the dotted line.
The only reason for a neutral group to want to take iHUBs is to grief the FW players in the area. There's plenty of other ways to do that, plenty of other assets you can take and hold to provoke fights.
They ought to be able to take low sec sov if they adhere to the same rules as everybody else - station lockouts, grinding the system plexes until a system is vulnerable. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
203
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veskrashen wrote:
Thing is that you're not in FW. You're pirates / neutrals / whatever, but you're not in militia. FW mechanics are for FW pilots.
Feel free to honorably third party the hell out of everything in the warzone, that's all fun and games. But you don't get to play with the same toys we do, because you've not signed on the dotted line.
The only reason for a neutral group to want to take iHUBs is to grief the FW players in the area. There's plenty of other ways to do that, plenty of other assets you can take and hold to provoke fights.
They ought to be able to take low sec sov if they adhere to the same rules as everybody else - station lockouts, grinding the system plexes until a system is vulnerable.
Yeah, but if they wanted to play by the same rules as the rest of us, they'd have already joined a militia like Evoke did back in the day.
They just want to have their cake and eat it too, without having to put forth the effort and take the risks the rest of us do. |
Capitol One
Snuff Box
142
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
I guess its time that snuffbox joined the caldari militia.
Whelp. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2201
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Capitol One wrote:I guess its time that snuffbox joined the caldari militia. Whelp. On the bright side, at least you're not a failed 0.0 nullbear alliance. Guess it's time for the pirate corps to start joining the Caldari....
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Epikurus
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
18
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Posted - 2014.05.10 11:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why on earth should you being in a faction have any effect on your ability to shoot a thing? Thats just dumb.
There is no good reason not to let us do it. Would create conflict, would be fun and it would make fw scrubs mad.
Surely that good for everyone involved? We get to poke FW with a stick, you get a reason to come and try to kick our asses! fights fights fights!
The thing is, the militias can't just shoot the iHubs either. They first have to grind the damn plexes to make a system vulnerable. If you could come up with a similar system for pirates I don't see that being a problem but being able to do the strategically decisive bit without having to do the grunt work as well would hardly be equitable. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
913
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 09:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Epikurus wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Why on earth should you being in a faction have any effect on your ability to shoot a thing? Thats just dumb.
There is no good reason not to let us do it. Would create conflict, would be fun and it would make fw scrubs mad.
Surely that good for everyone involved? We get to poke FW with a stick, you get a reason to come and try to kick our asses! fights fights fights! The thing is, the militias can't just shoot the iHubs either. They first have to grind the damn plexes to make a system vulnerable. If you could come up with a similar system for pirates I don't see that being a problem but being able to do the strategically decisive bit without having to do the grunt work as well would hardly be equitable.
Pirates neither need no warrants "a similar" system as they have no place in Factional Warfare. FW is a war-by-proxy between the empires over control of the un-policed border regions.
Doesn't mean that pirates should not be given reasons for hanging around FW areas and **** the militias up at every turn, mind you. Would be idiotic, bordering on evil, to force yet another player niche to live on the farm .. doubly evil with regards to pirates as they can't very well take a break in the same way as militias due to sec concerns.
There has been several threads about revamping low-sec to cater to pirates and their ilk, some of which were thought up as to be separate from FW yet benefiting from FW where applicaple, examples:
- No sec hits when offing armed vigilantes, aka. militia pilots.
- Various forms of territorial control yielding bonuses to module drop rates, being ignored by local sentries and such.
- Ability to mess with FW by removing plexes at accelerated rates but without militia type payouts (ie. hire pirates to **** opponents up).
.....
Problem with adding pirates as factions is that you will inevitably have to address the question of rewards, more specifically LP and I doubt you'll find anyone who can/will honestly claim/defend that Pirate LP = Other factions LP ... there is a (good)reason why pirate LP related stuff is generally null only.
In short: Don't think of pirates as needing to be in FW, but rather alongside and occupying the same space. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
349
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 11:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Can make it simple using already implemented features
allow pirates alliance/corp to be able to Help a FW corp using the Wardec allies mechanic.
As in Wardec a corp can Help/join the war alongside the defender or agressor , assuming FW is a permaWardec , pirates can help a corp in FW ( with all the consequences and rewards maybe , like ability to plex, to smash ihubs... but would be affected by the docking systems too etc etc
RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2209
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Posted - 2014.05.13 16:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
There has been several threads about revamping low-sec to cater to pirates and their ilk, some of which were thought up as to be separate from FW yet benefiting from FW where applicaple, examples:
- No sec hits when offing armed vigilantes, aka. militia pilots.
- Various forms of territorial control yielding bonuses to module drop rates, being ignored by local sentries and such.
- Ability to mess with FW by removing plexes at accelerated rates but without militia type payouts (ie. hire pirates to **** opponents up).
.....
These are all very interesting ideas.
- It would be great if militia pilots could off anybody we wanted to without taking a sec hit as well.
- It would be great if upgrades lead to gate guns ignoring my militia.
- It would be excellent if pirates could remove plexes at accelerated rates as long as they don't affect occupancy. If removing plexes at an accelerated rate DID affect occupancy, then I'm sure those pirates would agree to station lockouts. |
Tombomb13
PillowBrigade Inc
Heiian Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2014.05.15 11:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Capitol One wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Bah, first let neutrals blow up Ihubs..
We should totally be able to do that if just to be dicks. Nope. Go back to nullbearing. Sorry, I wasn't aware that shadow cartel were nullsec carebears, but are you so afraid of conflict that you'd rather avoid change than embrace new conflict drivers? I think it's an interesting idea. I mentioned at the fw roundtable that it would be cool if the ihubs were able to be repped by the defending militia, giving them time to organize a proper defense fleet if the enemy (e.g. a pirate faction in this case, not just the enemy militia) were attacking it. Would be fun. I mean the Ihub in Avenod is one of the less flipped hubs i know off (I think it has only been flipped once since we moved there? by a silly bomber fleet?) But thats totally not enough. Should be able to shoot it.
If Pirates are able to shoot hubs, then it changes from Faction Warfare to Pirates kill everything all the time, and now they decide who controls the warzone warfare. |
Tombomb13
PillowBrigade Inc
Heiian Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2014.05.15 11:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Here is an idea for pirates.
How about, pilots lose standing with either faction race every time they kill one of their militia pilots. When a certain negative standing is reached, they can no longer gain access to stations controlled by that faction.
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Artuard Envien
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
3
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Posted - 2014.05.16 09:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like what shadow cartel and snuff suggest. I would love the pie force to engage our hubs and my militia in any way they suggest.
I therefore support the idea to create Pirate factions and add them to the fw zone so our pie friends can feel more important and /or relevant.
1) no sec hit for engaging any fw militia
2) you get to participate in the most exciting fw element - ihub BASH!
3) you get to be sansha or so other space demons
4) you get daredevils for f*** all
??? |
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