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Jexter
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Posted - 2003.09.23 06:55:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jexter on 23/09/2003 07:12:28
Greetings fellow players & Developers,
In the last week we have engaged multiple battleships in several very nice skirmishes. In 5 out of maybe 6-7 of these occasions the battleship pilot that was obviously going to loose the fight logged off and saved his ship.
Last case in point is Mr. Merdekka of the Cult of Chtulhu. This once respected and feared Corporation seems to be resorting to this kind of behaviour which is quite sad actually, considering that they are widely known as skilled and talented pilots.
While a 2 minute timer may seem more than enough in several scenarios, like when the winning force has a rather sized force on the field, or when the target is in a cruiser... there are many situations where this timer just doesn't cut it.
As the time passes more and more "pilots" resort to this exploit. We are being forced to change or rules of engagement: no more asking for a toll, no more allowing extra time to collect the money from the corpmates, no more nice and funny talks (oddly enough we are roleplayers at heart): just kill'em fast and furious. Which isn't exactly the way we like to interact with fellow players.
My suggestions are as follows:
- if a player is being damaged by a NPC his ship won't desappear until 2 minutes have passed since he logged;
- If a player is being damaged by another player his ship will not desappear until 2 minutes have passed *since the last shot was fired at him*
Simpler and easy alternative: extend the timer to 3 or 4 minutes and leave the code as it is now.
Best regards
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Lord ofRedemption
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Posted - 2003.09.23 07:09:00 -
[2]
Yer right.5 mins...omg
Try not to use the same thing ur slef then you might be taken 4real.atm your just a corp who attacks 1 ship on its own and runs when even numbers come,dare to imagine what you do when your out numberd.
see you soon.dont run tho, stay and play will be fun.......for one of us
_____________
Retirement closing in .
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Jexter
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Posted - 2003.09.23 07:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jexter on 23/09/2003 08:00:10
Hmm and your contribution to the discussion is?
Besides, in the case mentioned above, Merdekka was flying a Scorpion and Filfnoir (or something like that anyway) was flying an Apocalypse. While Merdekka could not get away thanks to the scramblers, the Apocalypse pilot fled, and then spent the next 1.30 hours in the system just waiting for the moment when we would leave the system so that he could tell his "wingman" to log back in... nice way to spend one evening.
Anyways, that's not the point. The point would be that a player should not consider the option of logging out (which is an exploit in my book). Getting out of trouble is of course a legitimate and very sound thing to do but by no means one should be able to achieve that by logging out of the game. If you can't handle the pressure go mine some asteroids or fight NPCs I would say.
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Keo Morigan
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Posted - 2003.09.23 08:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Keo Morigan on 23/09/2003 08:34:16
lad, you don't have to stop shooting cause your talking to your victim.
Also, extending the timer will only end with problems, we need another solution. Like, engaging combat with a player resets the timer or something.
also, I have to defend the ones logging. It's just plain stupidity and nothing "honourble" in staying online to get blown up and podded instead of logging. As long as you don't got too much money 
If your not a part of the solution, then you'r probably a part of the problem. |
DarkMatters
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Posted - 2003.09.23 08:39:00 -
[5]
put it up to 10-20 mins while in space and keep it as a couple mins in stations,
when chasing a pirate all the have to do is warp to a random planet/moon/sun and log while in warp and the chasers have NO chance of ever finding them let alone killing them.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.23 08:47:00 -
[6]
"also, I have to defend the ones logging. It's just plain stupidity and nothing "honourble" in staying online to get blown up and podded instead of logging. As long as you don't got too much money "
... *shrugs* since you decided to raise the matter of "plain stupidity"... If you 'don't got too much money' then isn't it plain stupidity in the first place to cruise around in a ship you cannot easily afford to lose?
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Keo Morigan
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Posted - 2003.09.23 08:56:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Keo Morigan on 23/09/2003 08:57:32
"put it up to 10-20 mins while in space and keep it as a couple mins in stations,
when chasing a pirate all the have to do is warp to a random planet/moon/sun and log while in warp and the chasers have NO chance of ever finding them let alone killing them."
sorry, I can't speak retardese...
You have never been in a 0.0 system, do you? Do you realise how far it is to a station in some cases? Also, that will favor pirates too, will be nice cruiseing around looking for people who's offline...
Josefine: So, you mean, somone who get his first battleship should stay withing 0.5+ just to mine enough to buy one more BS before going out? No wonder there's so many carebears...
edit: You have to agree, if you have the option to blow up, or save your battleship, what do you choose?
If your not a part of the solution, then you'r probably a part of the problem. |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:02:00 -
[8]
Getting attacked by player should result in a no_void flag for 5-10 mins.
That should solve the problem and not produce countless whines/petitions of people losing link for any reason while fighting npcs.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Avirex II
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:10:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
Edited by: Keo Morigan on 23/09/2003 08:57:32
edit: You have to agree, if you have the option to blow up, or save your battleship, what do you choose?
Of course i don't agree, RPG speaking!
This is an exploit in PvP, that's the point...
We're in a MMORPG, if anyone here knows what it means... so accept it
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Avirex II
Jokers Corp |
Captin Zed
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:15:00 -
[10]
Quote:
As the time passes more and more "pilots" resort to this exploit. We are being forced to change or rules of engagement: no more asking for a toll, no more allowing extra time to collect the money from the corpmates, no more nice and funny talks (oddly enough we are roleplayers at heart): just kill'em fast and furious. Which isn't exactly the way we like to interact with fellow players.
Well, first time I found out about Jokers corp was when I was attacked by you. There was NO interaction, warning or anything else. Also your high sec levels must aid you quite a bit I am sure. Mabey you were afraid I would log and save my cruiser, yes?
My impression of Jokers corp is just a bunch of griefers at the moment.
You point is valid tho, people should not be able to log and save ships during a battle.
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. |
Keo Morigan
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:21:00 -
[11]
yeah, I don't like the option, but I see the point why people do it, and i'm sure you do too Josephine. But I can see a problem with CTD's in PvP too, I am getting them quite frquently now too..
If your not a part of the solution, then you'r probably a part of the problem. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: j0sephine on 23/09/2003 09:27:28
"Josefine: So, you mean, somone who get his first battleship should stay withing 0.5+ just to mine enough to buy one more BS before going out? No wonder there's so many carebears..."
... No, i mean that theoretical someone should perhaps wait with getting their first battleship until they're really ready for it, preferably experience-, skill- and money-wise. And if you can only think of mining in high-sec space as of way to make money.... maybe you're not in best position to go around and call others carebears, your position in PvP corporation nonwithstanding? :s
edit: You have to agree, if you have the option to blow up, or save your battleship, what do you choose?
To be honest, when i play and something intensive happens, am usually too much occupied with finding solutions on the game level to recall that hey, i can actually log off. :s
... But if i did recall... why would i want that? 'Tis just a game, and your posessions in it matter next to nothing, especially when you were smart about acquiring them. What remains in the end is how much fun you had, and how your character is being perceived... and 'tis you only shape by your own actions.
Personally, i get more satisfaction and the sense of closure from the fight ending in game, be it a victory, a defeat, an escape or some unforeseen **** up. If you prefer to escape out of game and then justify your unability to face consequences of your actions as being smart... be my guest, but i won't join you. It's simply not my kind of fun.
edit:
"yeah, I don't like the option, but I see the point why people do it, and i'm sure you do too Josephine."
Yes, if you mean if i can see where they come from when they do it then sure, i do. It just doesn't make it something i'd personally like to do, 'tsall.
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Jexter
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:24:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jexter on 23/09/2003 09:24:32
Quote:
My impression of Jokers corp is just a bunch of griefers at the moment.
Let's try to stay in topic Sir, we can discuss how evil and bad the Jokers are elsewhere, I am sure you will agree with me.
Quote:
You point is valid tho, people should not be able to log and save ships during a battle.
Thank you.
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Keo Morigan
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:46:00 -
[14]
Well, I would acctually say people in BS not going outside 0.5 are carebears. That's my opinion..
Also, sure, it's just a game... But all items you get, require you to spend some of your time to get, and thus, it's just a little bit more serious, and therefore, people log when they got the ability.
If you respawned or so, they would not log.
So let's swap newbieships for fully equpped Titans 
If your not a part of the solution, then you'r probably a part of the problem. |
s0cks
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Posted - 2003.09.23 09:57:00 -
[15]
i agree that it should be increased, even when fighting a cruiser in a couple of frigates in can take over 2 minutes to kill em (with pea shooters - and yes we need these cus the EW takes up the rest of the powergrid).
i have only seen 1 or 2 log off out of prolly 20 to 30 tho. but there is the issue with a CTD, especially if it requires a whole system reboot. if CTD was a rare occurance then i'd support the idea, but for the moment i don't believe it should be changed.
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Masi
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Posted - 2003.09.23 10:58:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Yer right.5 mins...omg
Try not to use the same thing ur slef then you might be taken 4real.atm your just a corp who attacks 1 ship on its own and runs when even numbers come,dare to imagine what you do when your out numberd.
see you soon.dont run tho, stay and playwill be fun.......for one of us
Why stay if you know your going to lose? I rather keep my ship and get flamed then lose it to stupidity. Pirates are supposed to be cheap and nasty using tricks to stay alive or kill there prey. I've run a few times myself, i don't care. I'm still alive and able to pirate another day
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Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.09.23 11:14:00 -
[17]
Well this completely depends on your force present. Coming from SI I can give you this warning: Logging is a sure way to lose your ship.
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Reverend Mother
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Posted - 2003.09.23 11:48:00 -
[18]
better to lose your ship then your dignity
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Masi
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Posted - 2003.09.23 12:07:00 -
[19]
I'm a pirate, what dignity do i have? ;]
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Bashier Tarr
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Posted - 2003.09.23 12:10:00 -
[20]
The simplest idea would be:
When you take damage from another player the timer resets.
That should fix the "log-off-to-save-own-butt" problem.
Gradient is hiring! Check our CoC here. |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.23 12:20:00 -
[21]
Quote:
The simplest idea would be:
When you take damage from another player the timer resets.
That should fix the "log-off-to-save-own-butt" problem.
I can see this causing significant lag. The idea of identifying player aggression is valid though, as it is a better indicator of the exploit we are tryign to repair and already in game for concord use., use the aggression to change the timer to 5 minutes temporarily (20 min interval)
ps. this assumes that the timer is coded as to allow this.
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Acuna Traos
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Posted - 2003.09.23 12:23:00 -
[22]
I agree the timer should be more, or should reset when being fired upon. I personally don't condone what Merd did, but on the other hand I'm glad his ship is ok . The reason he got caught off guard like that was actually a communications failure, between Fal and Merd. I just wish I wasnĘt at the pub at the time.. (no wait I donĘt I was at the pub!)
On my part I have never used any such exploits, and its damn tiring coming up against them all the time, and can see how easy it is to use one. You know, just the once, then maybe another time cause it worked so well (you get the idea).
Quote:
Logging is a sure way to loose your ship.
Well not really, in a bship it can save you, as long as the opposing numbers arenĘt too great. Though it does not mean you should do it!
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Indira Firebrand
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Posted - 2003.09.23 12:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Indira Firebrand on 23/09/2003 12:29:50
Well if my staying and fighting to the death means others will survive, then I stay and die.
However...if im by myself and losing the battle, you can bet your sweet ass Im gonna do everything I can to save my ship. Generally this will be gating a couple random sectors away, but if all gates are blocked, Im loggin, sweet and simple. Im not going to waste time sitting in a station drinkin quafe for 2+ hours till you get tired of waiting. Im gonna do other things.
If you think thats lame, youre obviously retarded.
Others come 1st, ship comes 2nd, your feelings come last!
kthxbye
EDIT: and if you dont know how to cap drain and random warp before logging....DUH
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Edgar Corleone
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Posted - 2003.09.23 12:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Edgar Corleone on 23/09/2003 12:48:55
Oh yeah lets give Jexter the GRIEFER more time to chat invite you more time to eve mail u DURING his battle, With his Griefing buddys.
You my Dweeb are pond scum.
"Hydroponcly grown Flotsam"
Havent you been banned yet??
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Redan Chulipa
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Posted - 2003.09.23 12:56:00 -
[25]
Isn't the timer void anyways if you log on an alt to speed up your dissappearing act?
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Jexter
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Posted - 2003.09.23 13:04:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jexter on 23/09/2003 13:08:01
Quote:
Oh yeah lets give Jexter the GRIEFER more time to chat invite you more time to eve mail u DURING his battle, With his Griefing buddys. You my Dweeb are pond scum.
That's what you get for trying to extort some money instead of blowing up their ships hard and furious...
*shakes his head*
----
Yes I think they can even exploit this better by logging in an alt. By doing that they don't even need to wait 2 minutes, their ships will vanish as soon as they log back in with their alt.
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Kassik Traggar
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Posted - 2003.09.23 13:12:00 -
[27]
Y'know, I've always wondered why the Captain of the Tirpitz didn't just log when he saw all those bombers come over the mountain. I mean, sure, he would have taken some damage, but after 2 minutes the ship would have just disappeared making all of england's effort for naught.
Logging is only realistic in station, or in the middle of nowhere.
For those who use logging as a combat tactic, I say you have no honor...Just stay inside 1.0 space where you can wrap your cozy carebear blanket around you, and suckle your mommy's teat. Leave the dangerous, and honorable work for the rest of us.
BTW, this statement does exclude accidental logging, or CTDs....nothing to be done about that, I won't disparage anyone who can't control such circumstances.
------------------------------------------------
Military Adjutant of
The People's Front of Minmatar
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"Remember, I don't know if you're not 'Playing Role'." |
Jexter
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Posted - 2003.09.23 13:19:00 -
[28]
Quote:
However...if im by myself and losing the battle, you can bet your sweet ass Im gonna do everything I can to save my ship. Generally this will be gating a couple random sectors away, but if all gates are blocked, Im loggin, sweet and simple. Im not going to waste time sitting in a station drinkin quafe for 2+ hours till you get tired of waiting. Im gonna do other things.
Of course. However we are talking about a slightly different scenario here: you are warp scrambled and under costant enemy fire. Thus you cannot warp around from one moon to another or dock to a station which would be of course perfectly legit. If I am out of scrambling effects and I am losing the battle rest assured I will get out of there and *then* log if so I wish, when the timer has gone off.
But in the scenario outlined in the original post, with your ship scrambled and under fire... why should you be allowed to just turn on your hardeners, shield boosters and maybe even armor repairers and then log off?
If you are caught in a fight and you didn't manage to get away (be it for a mistake of yours or thanks to the skills of the attackers) you should suffer the consequences. Otherwise, what is the point of the whole fight in the first place?
Regards
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Redan Chulipa
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Posted - 2003.09.23 13:23:00 -
[29]
Sitting logged on in a station while doing other things may however keep the enemy forces there waiting and wasting their time but sure, you go ahead and log off.
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Indira Firebrand
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Posted - 2003.09.23 17:33:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Indira Firebrand on 23/09/2003 17:42:32
EDIT: I do agree that logging off while under fire and unable to escape is a cheesy tactic.
I just said what I said in my above post because you will never find me in a battle unable to warp unless Im in a shuttle.
At least I havent been scrambled yet *knock wood*
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