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Band of Bloggers #2, Exploration by TomB

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Sovy Kurosei	Posted - 2006.05.26 21:55:00 - [31] Really curious what the new scanning system will be like but this exploration content sounds pretty nifty too. Hope the next devblog will talk about factional warfare. ___________________
Agillious	Posted - 2006.05.26 21:57:00 - [32] A couple of thoughts on the PvE content... The "Exploration" mechanism has me interested like nothing else in Eve has in the past. On the temporal nature of things, I believe it is well within the scope of Eve's background to create semi-permanent cosmic entities. Cosmic entities serve two functions.. they can have a direct and indirect impact on players experiences. For example, suppose there is a mechanism to create a semi-permanent wormhole in the game engine: This entity would bridge some tremendous gap in the Eve univers, but only temporarily. It would last a week or so, and then vanish, only to reappear some time later. Directly, players could use it for a temporary conduit to another realm, at the risk of not being able to make it back. Indirectly, make the entity interact with sensors. Allow players with science skills to "study" the entity and collect scientific information as a resource to sell to RnD companies. Bring on the expansive PvE content!!! \o/
Oron	Posted - 2006.05.26 22:31:00 - [33] I am a litle bit disappointed. As i heared Eve get a exploration system yea great! gimme, gimme! I always ask myself who in the the heck put all those belts and complexes and stations and stuff into my navcomputer in regions i never visited before! I thought you will give us the posibility to explore all this stuff and some more - but as it seems to me - all you give us new "missions places" whitch we dont get from an agent but need to find our self Why not make a real step ahead? Give us solarsystems that looks empty and need to explored! Where are the Planets? Where are the Moons? Witch Minerals do the Moons have? Witch belts? Witch rods floating around in the Belts? Are there Rat Bases(complexes/stations) we need to take care about? Witch tactical advantages are hidden in this system? Are there special locations? Wreakfields? What ever! Thats exploration - not finding a spawned complex or a mission point or something like this. I would like to see all eve systems as sutch "empty" solarsystems. I would give the newbs the "Map" for their start regions. I would allow NPCs to sell "Map" from all empire regions. Thats it! The rest need to be done by our self. Need drugs?
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2006.05.26 22:44:00 - [34] I approve of this idea very much. Static is horrible and will get farmed, randomly generated stuff with a somewhat deffinite life span, ala jet cans, would be awesome and marketable. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.05.26 22:44:00 - [35] Forgive the healthy dose of cynicism but isn't this how complexes were originally intended to work? :) I recall there being a pretty big discussion on the shiva boards regarding the way complexes and gas clouds would be seeded, and this was it. I won't discourage you from implementing this though, I want it badly because theres nothing to scan now that people stopped leaving ships in space and that was one of the most challenging and enjoyable parts of EVE for me. I have one seemingly obvious suggestion, but I'll state it just so you have no excuses later! Its called reward masking through the use of environmental effects and cosmic signatures. The basic premise is to scatter a bunch normal/worthless looking locations throughout EVE. The contents found at those locations could indeed be worthless (and should be most of the time), but they would not appear on range scanner even with all filters off. This is the key element to making it actual exploration, instead of checking your scanner as you pass through systems to see if there is anything worthwhile. Naturally, these locations also serve as tactical environments, not for their potential resources but the ability to hide reinforcements in a system.. When you can hide yourself like that, you open the door for small corporations to operate deep in "claimed" alliance territory. PVE'rs would have places to store ships and loot like the old F11 safespots which didn't require you to place a control tower. Currently, hostile control towers would get removed pretty fast. This only allows neutral corporations to live near NPC stations or genuinely worthless 0.0 like Pureblind, Providence and Geminate. For small scale PVP corps it would open the door to "player complexes/installations" because you could have a relatively hidden carrier or mothership providing all the logistics needed to live in hostile territory. Made even better if you introduce some other anchorable structures that worked outside POS force fields - similar to bubbles. You need to blog about the new scanning system next Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Marlenus	Posted - 2006.05.26 22:53:00 - [36] Originally by: kieron If this isn't in the design plan for Exploration, I think it should be and will see what I can do about its addition. Great ideas! Thanks, Kieron. I really appreciate it. I was "exploring" my first week in Eve. Spent two days warping back and forth to track down the lone omber asteroid in my .7 system, only to finally figure out it was in a deadspace complex I couldn't access. Spent my last isk for a Probe launcher for my Badger and six 3 AU scan probes, used them to find another abandoned Badger that was on my scanner. Would be exploring full time yet if I hadn't found out that virtually everything worth finding is static and known to everybody. I think exploration is a hugely great idea as long as there can be stuff worth finding that isn't worth camping or can't be camped. Another fun idea for the "findable items" database -- ships abandoned by the NPC pirates. Nothing unique, just the same stuff we meet in the belts, somewhat shot up -- but with a small chance of a faction item fitted or interesting cargo in the hold, to make it worth tracking them down.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.05.26 23:17:00 - [37] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Naturally, these locations also serve as tactical environments, not for their potential resources but the ability to hide reinforcements in a system.. I for one look forward to the video reenacting Star Trek II. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.05.26 23:22:00 - [38] The way to accommodate "lone prospector"-type characters is probably to have resources (eg roids) which will either give say a reasonable amount of wealth if you hit them all in one go but if carefully managed can keep on giving and giving moderate amounts on a regular basis. The key there though is "carefully managed" - you'd have to be careful not to overuse the resource or it wouldn't "regenerate", but equally if you left it too long without using it it'd expire and disappear. For example, you have a roid which you can find (through whatever method) which: -Has a huge theoretical ore capacity, say 10k units (of random ore type z for which this is an awful lot; I don't mine) -Mining rate such that a large barge can pull 100 units an hour and make a very decent profit -Will disappear within 3 hours once you start mining it -Can be "stabilised" (with appropriate skill and/or module) provided you mine less than 100 units in one go; every unit over 100 you mine makes it stabilise 10 units lower. -At skill level 1 you lose say half the amount you mined from the roid in stabilising it; at skill level 3 you lose no units; at skill level 5 you actually add half the units you mined back on to the total. -Stabilisation lasts for say 72h, after which time it needs restabilising or it'll disappear Upshot is as follows: -If you can pull 30 or so large barges together for a six-hour op, you can mine the roid dry. Bonanza. -If you're on your own, at skill level 1 and assuming you only mine 100 units a go, you can milk it for about two months at 100 units/night -If you have skill 3, you can do it for 3 months -If you have skill 5 and you mine every night, you're looking at nearer 6 months -If you don't keep checking back to keep it stable at least, you'll lose it. Yes, this means they'll never last for ever due to RL commitments, but they'll be plenty out there. The idea is that you could have three or four on the go and "do the rounds" every night to milk your cash cows Could quite possibly alter this and make use of existing Mercoxit mechanics to keep it more in line with current stuff; the basic model should also be able to apply to non-roid resources.
Selim	Posted - 2006.05.26 23:24:00 - [39] While I like the idea, I fear the implementation will be rather... dissapointing. I've always wanted a good exploration system in EVE. Reading from the blog I offer two additional ideas: - the rewards shouldn't just dissapear instantly, that doesn't make sense. A slower dissipation of whatever was there would probably be pretty hard to accomplish, but it would be nice. - please, please don't make them all into wannabe complexes with huge fleets of guristas. I'd like some where codebreakers etc. are used, perhaps some wrecks you can salvage for valuable technologies/modules(of course, this in tandem with the proposed ship salvage idea that is supposedly in the works). But whatever, I'm really an explorer at heart. I hope this is good.
Lygos	Posted - 2006.05.26 23:52:00 - [40] One thing about instanced content: The only way to make it untwinkable, is to make it rely on some form of competition. All isk printing needs to result of the competion between two players. In order to prevent abuse of alts or weak players, rewards need to emerge based on something like the ELO rating of the individual. Losing to someone in your same class should be a big loss. Competition in this form does not need to take the form of combat. It simply has to be a type of activity issued by an npc that is sent to more than one individual. Obviously, a player needs to have open contracts with more than one npc in the hopes that a contract will open up. Whomever completes the task, does so at the exclusion of the other members. All must bid a certain amount of isk to obtain a chance in these enterprises. The level of isk you bid to subscribe can substitute as the group ELO ranking. However it works out, the total amount of payout to one individual must always be less than or equal the total sum advanced by all entering parties.
Arngorf	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:06:00 - [41] <3 POWNEDSOME!!! \o/ cant wait to see it implemented.. ________________________________________________ FORMER!!! I said FORMER Pirate...
Daedalus Maxwell	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Joerd Toastius The way to accommodate "lone prospector"-type characters is probably to have resources (eg roids) which will either give say a reasonable amount of wealth if you hit them all in one go but if carefully managed can keep on giving and giving moderate amounts on a regular basis. The key there though is "carefully managed" - you'd have to be careful not to overuse the resource or it wouldn't "regenerate", but equally if you left it too long without using it it'd expire and disappear. For example, you have a roid which you can find (through whatever method) which: -Has a huge theoretical ore capacity, say 10k units (of random ore type z for which this is an awful lot; I don't mine) -Mining rate such that a large barge can pull 100 units an hour and make a very decent profit -Will disappear within 3 hours once you start mining it -Can be "stabilised" (with appropriate skill and/or module) provided you mine less than 100 units in one go; every unit over 100 you mine makes it stabilise 10 units lower. -At skill level 1 you lose say half the amount you mined from the roid in stabilising it; at skill level 3 you lose no units; at skill level 5 you actually add half the units you mined back on to the total. -Stabilisation lasts for say 72h, after which time it needs restabilising or it'll disappear Upshot is as follows: -If you can pull 30 or so large barges together for a six-hour op, you can mine the roid dry. Bonanza. -If you're on your own, at skill level 1 and assuming you only mine 100 units a go, you can milk it for about two months at 100 units/night -If you have skill 3, you can do it for 3 months -If you have skill 5 and you mine every night, you're looking at nearer 6 months -If you don't keep checking back to keep it stable at least, you'll lose it. Yes, this means they'll never last for ever due to RL commitments, but they'll be plenty out there. The idea is that you could have three or four on the go and "do the rounds" every night to milk your cash cows Could quite possibly alter this and make use of existing Mercoxit mechanics to keep it more in line with current stuff; the basic model should also be able to apply to non-roid resources. Only problem I see with your idea is the stabilization at the random number of say 100 units per hour thing. I'm gonna assume every unit is equal to one ore for this, so lets say you take ark ore. One miner I per hour will nail in 120 units with virtually no other skills applying. Unless of course this is some new ore with a volume per unit thats larger than even merc you're going to run into problems like that.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.27 02:02:00 - [43] I liked the whole "escalating encounter" idea when that was postulated...
DarK	Posted - 2006.05.27 02:32:00 - [44] Hopefully when we get nebulas, system wide roid belts an such things they will require some sort of scanning effort to find hidden enemies and such. It would be nice if there were some environmental impacts on ships. Large amount of possibilities for and exploring system, please don't make it too limited. Looks good so far.
Bob Niac	Posted - 2006.05.27 04:26:00 - [45] Edited by: Bob Niac on 27/05/2006 04:32:57 can we, for once, have more realistic asteroid belts? i mean like we see in Sol. the belt in between the gaseous and solid planets come to mind. These belts are more ... "ooh a celestial body blew up here" these would be the only remaining static belts, and tho massive would be quite hard to warp to with out some special means of getting there... most likely they would be littered with acceration gates/navigation becons, but the way of getting to them would be quite hard. (perhaps a new way of using complexes?) i figure scanning would be adversely affected here. also orbiting planets would be AWESOME.... imaginetriing to warp to your enemies safespot; only to forget that between 1700 and 2200 on that day your BM is actually .. IN THE MIDDLE OF A FREAKING PLANET!!! i would also like ytou know how your comets are going to work... because that requires a minimal implementation of gravimetric physics, and that just a can of worms right there. ohh that reminds me .. could some1 explain how our celetial explorers are not bombarded by rradiation? __________________________________ Yarr! Pirate Learning Skills!
Kingdoc	Posted - 2006.05.27 05:37:00 - [46] I wonder what would happen if a jumpgate and a wormhole met? Perhaps a jumpgate could appear at random places and transport anybody that goes through it to ôconstellation Xö where ABC123 can be found (rare ores, secret pirate bases, abandoned stations that may have 1 or 2 options still working like ship repair and reprocessing, perhaps the one and only Jove complex can be found here? Making Jove equipment available on the market?) Then, in order to leave ôconstellation Xö you have to find the jumpgate on that side of the wormhole, which also moves about randomly. Just my 0.2ISK
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.05.27 07:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Daedalus Maxwell Only problem I see with your idea is the stabilization at the random number of say 100 units per hour thing. I'm gonna assume every unit is equal to one ore for this, so lets say you take ark ore. One miner I per hour will nail in 120 units with virtually no other skills applying. Unless of course this is some new ore with a volume per unit thats larger than even merc you're going to run into problems like that. Arbitrary units. You can divide or multiply the numbers by whatever you like.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.27 08:05:00 - [48] I really like that ccp doesnt want to do instanced content. As usual you guys dont take the easy route but instead try to do something original and different. I definently think its a good route to follow for the future. This exploration thing sounds cool, even for the ones of us who do pvp. Always fun to try to maximize the game experience by doing a little bit of everything in the game. --- The Eve Wiki Project
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.05.27 09:13:00 - [49] Instancing is not part of eve, and I hope it never is. Finding moving plexes and belts does sound cool though. Is the escalating paths thing still in?
Agenor Deteis	Posted - 2006.05.27 09:26:00 - [50] Originally by: Bob Niac also orbiting planets would be AWESOME.... imaginetriing to warp to your enemies safespot; only to forget that between 1700 and 2200 on that day your BM is actually .. IN THE MIDDLE OF A FREAKING PLANET!!! A damage collision sytem was abdonned years ago and very likely won't return to TQ ever. On the visual side, rotations are already in i think.. _________________________________________________
Miyamoto Uroki	Posted - 2006.05.27 10:44:00 - [51] rotation is in, yeah. There was an announcement in the last Eon regarding planets and physics. Maybe it will be implemented, soonÖ
Ralitge boyter	Posted - 2006.05.27 11:41:00 - [52] Looks like cool stuff... One suggestion though. The wealth of a find will almost natuarly be bigger in 0.0 space or at least so it seems. But making the most intresting spots really hard to find and appear at random anywhere in space would increase the chance for the solo players to strike it rich. Remember most solo players are not in 0.0 alliances nor in 0.0 space pirating and fighting a war on their own. I know it might sound strange but keep an eye on the target audiance when putting this in or we might have the same problem as with the complexes, the good once are "owned" by the big alliances and the medium once are camped/farmed to death by medium sized corps. I think the back story could quite easily be made to explain the wealth of the big alliances in 0.0 and the less frequent appearance of intresting finds in "their" space. On top of that making these things worth while for medium players and not for the dreadnaught flying, carier building, navy issue raven collecting, T2 BPO trading sort. Does seem like a good plan as a kind of midle ground between the slow and borring lvl4 misions and the short and simple lvl3's Well at least I would think that this migth be a good way to give a solo player more of a chance in the world of EVE. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.05.27 11:45:00 - [53] Originally by: TomB [...] What will we get? At first we will use this system to deploy ônormalö scenarios such as; complexes, ice/asteroid fields, agents and other things into the world. As the system matures, we will be able to make some locations or encounters rarer and harder to find. We might also use exploration as a new way to distribute resources and there are some other areas where the Exploration system looks promising for future ultra hot stuff, really ultra hot, did I mention something really really ultra hot? [...] This sounds like the Cosmos/Deadspace system as it has been sold to us many moons and patches ago. Partially broken, half done implementation, still unfinished. At least there's a lot of space of improvements! Quick! A new system! At least you can't pull more devs away from the storyline development. laughs in a slighly cynical way Actually something like this has been promised early in Beta or even Alpha i nthe form of events like a convoy getting in danger and calling in pilots from the system or the neighbouring systems. It had been called On-The-Fly Mission system or something like that. Nice you're still following that part of the game! 'as the system matures' -> wont happen this year, and not early next year. Not implemented yet, design did not really start yet or is already slated for a later expansion. Often also known as SOONÖ or PromiseÖ. 'looks promising for future ultra hot stuff' reminds me of 'the fantastic miniprofessions' that are mostly mootÖ and often enough plainly annoying big timeÖ. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Amial Starkiel	Posted - 2006.05.27 13:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Oron I am a litle bit disappointed. As i heared Eve get a exploration system yea great! gimme, gimme! I always ask myself who in the the heck put all those belts and complexes and stations and stuff into my navcomputer in regions i never visited before! I thought you will give us the posibility to explore all this stuff and some more - but as it seems to me - all you give us new "missions places" whitch we dont get from an agent but need to find our self Why not make a real step ahead? Give us solarsystems that looks empty and need to explored! Where are the Planets? Where are the Moons? Witch Minerals do the Moons have? Witch belts? Witch rods floating around in the Belts? Are there Rat Bases(complexes/stations) we need to take care about? Witch tactical advantages are hidden in this system? Are there special locations? Wreakfields? What ever! Thats exploration - not finding a spawned complex or a mission point or something like this. I would like to see all eve systems as sutch "empty" solarsystems. I would give the newbs the "Map" for their start regions. I would allow NPCs to sell "Map" from all empire regions. Thats it! The rest need to be done by our self. I second this. Leave newcomers with detailed maps of their starting systems, with decreasing detail in other parts of Empire space, but leave 0.0 space uncharted (except for the stargates?) unless you scout it yourself or buy maps. "Local map update" would then be a sellable item, perhaps created by special devices and dedicated "astrometry ships"... An idea would be to have these map work in a way that they just add more info to the current maps. So even if you already have a map over a system, it might be worth to get another one that adds even more detail. (This could be expanded considerably: What if it was possible to have outdated or plain wrong info in maps? Someone making a map showing an installation that he knows will soon be moved elsewhere? That's called bad intel, and getting a map from a reliable source becomes as vital as getting the map in the first place). Considering the size of space, the difficulty to scan over vast distances and the shifting political climate, I'd say this would be a very, very realistic change. Exploring, creating and selling maps would become a viable profession. Independent spy corps could sell the maps over enemy systems to the highest bidder. It would make a huge strategic difference if reliable telemetry had first to be obtained before sweeping through a system -- the ones operating on their "home turf" would be able to jump off to orbit an uncharted moon for example. Guerilla warfare would be made easier, with "astrometry ships" loaded with long-range probes and scanners being an absolutely vital part of any fleet.. Well, some ideas at least. The difficulty would be how to handle the transition -- there would have to be some sort of translation (maybe based on amount of bookmarks or something) so that old players wouldn't suddenly have to reexplore systems they have frequented for years ... /Amial
olan2005	Posted - 2006.05.27 13:28:00 - [55] looks very intresting especilay since the areas will move giving all eople equal oppurtanity to find em in all time zones . also opens up more possbilities ore map
Harris	Posted - 2006.05.27 13:40:00 - [56] Edited by: Harris on 27/05/2006 13:40:55 Originally by: Commander Criton Edited by: Commander Criton on 26/05/2006 20:27:44 Sounds great if this is going to used for astroid belts too will this put an end to macro's? This Wouldn't work, it would take moments to setup new instas and they'd just cr@ck right on with their ebil ways. Edit: Possible solution to that...Moving asteroid fields that shift x'km/s would do the trick
Coryynn	Posted - 2006.05.27 14:20:00 - [57] What about a new explorer class ship? I'm not sure how the specifics would operate, but I'm just throwing it out there as an idea. I think it would be cool if there were explorable shops for traders, like a hidden quafe facility where you could buy quafe at a huge discount and in great quantity, or a hidden Leisure Studios station where you could sell ultra quafe at a huge profit. Of course these locations could not static. I am really looking forward to these changes.
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.05.27 15:29:00 - [58] I have said it before and I'll say it again... CCP is laying the groundwork for a space whaling profession. The space whalers have to hunt their prey. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2006.05.27 15:46:00 - [59] "We would like to create a supported mechanic for selling locations where people wouldnÆt get an empty scenario but so far the only thing that came in mind was creating something with bookmarks which is not such a good idea (If you think bookmarks are a hot topic on the forums, you should see the discussions here in the CCP Offices! :) )." TomB, Keiron, etc: a possible solution for your bookmarks dilemma for this feature: Beacons. Launched from a scan probe launcher, just like a probe, when the player has got inside the exploration pocket. various types of beacon could be produced with different effects: DED Standard Frequency beacons pinpoint the location for all to see - effectively the same as the beacons at existing DED location deadspaces. Corporate Wavelength beacons are visible only to the player's corp Personalised Secure beacons would be visible only to the owner of the beacon frequency... which could of course, be copied like a bookmark and thus, sold on the open market. Of course, such launched beacons have a limited lifespan, i.e, that of the duration of the zone in question. Such regions are often pummeled by micrometeorite clouds, stellar effects or <insert pseudoscience guff here> which destroy the beacons when the zone is eliminated. Elimination of the beacon makes any frequency details copied for sale become "dead", and no longer active. Convenient solution, for you? Hope that gives you some ideas to play around with.
Alaire Dunsane	Posted - 2006.05.27 16:22:00 - [60] I think this is overall a great idea. But it throws a bandaid over the entire farm/camp problem you tend to run into in every mmorpg. I think the real key would be to make resources more dynamic. And that means they have to run dry. I know that the big corps wouldn't like this, but if asteroid fields would run out for a few days after depletion it would force the campers to move on somewhere else kinda of like a horde of hungry ants and force them to resituate a bit. Tie this in with survey and scanners and you end up with a need for some professional surveyors (probably on of the more redeeming things in SWG). It would allow the opportunity for the solo players to grab a piece of the pie before some mega corp comes in and nabs it all. As a result there becomes more of a need for constant exploration in all systems. While it may seem disruptive to some corporate tactics, those corporations that excel at communication and organization rather than static camping would do much better. Another result would be that the economy would become more dynamic, as I think maybe the dev's intent in part of this. This can also be applied to complexes and such as well. As the various political factions expand into new areas ... possibly shifting some of the low security zones because players keep killing off the pirates the various political entities move and take more control creating a more dynamic political situation. Which would force some of the PvP gate campers to revise their situation as well. Of course pirate bases might for a lowering of security ratings as well ...

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