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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.23 16:29:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
You are not taking into account the selling of the items, the work that goes into that
The work that goes into selling the items?
Do they deliver the items? Do they pickup the megacyte they are now demanding in exchange?
The BUYER is the one doing the work here.
Forgive me if I don't feel bad for the person who has to deal with the conversation windows - considering every one that opens means another 3M in their pocket.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Helios
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Posted - 2003.09.23 16:31:00 -
[32]
Ok I am not *****ing and I am not attacking Techell
They Just say is OK if the Miner II BP is available to everyone...They already happy with all the billions they make with their excellent investment and the prove not to be that greedy... so what are we discusing here...
They are happy and certantly all players will be happy with this so The queation sis when the DEV witll make them available
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Artegg
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Posted - 2003.09.23 16:32:00 -
[33]
I wish people would stop complaining about this. People who say the market does not work look at this as a example: The whole miner II thing is the market working. In the real world not everyone produces everything therefore some things are more expensive then others. supply and demand the price is high because of a large demand and a few suppliers. get over it and move on
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.23 16:36:00 -
[34]
Quote:
I wish people would stop complaining about this. People who say the market does not work look at this as a example: The whole miner II thing is the market working. In the real world not everyone produces everything therefore some things are more expensive then others. supply and demand the price is high because of a large demand and a few suppliers. get over it and move on
My sentiments exactly!
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2003.09.23 16:43:00 -
[35]
But Atregg, this is pretty much the only item that cannot be made by anyone other than those few who have them now. If what you said were true, then it would apply to every BP in the game; however, it does not. Add to the fact that there are no Original Copies in the game and you create an oligopoly.
IRL, there are companies who have an item first and make them and sell them for a lot of money. Eventually another company makes their version of the same item and then another and another and so on. That is not happening either.
Eventually this oligopoly will be broken.
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Kel 'dra
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Posted - 2003.09.23 16:46:00 -
[36]
CCP screwed up. Hands Down.
Are they going to to fix? Are we all going to continue to bit each others heads off?
All the power is in CCP's hands.
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scam artist
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Posted - 2003.09.23 16:54:00 -
[37]
it dont take a genius to work out Favoratismn is present in this game
these boards need a search engine |
Artegg
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Posted - 2003.09.23 17:00:00 -
[38]
Quote:
But Atregg, this is pretty much the only item that cannot be made by anyone other than those few who have them now. If what you said were true, then it would apply to every BP in the game; however, it does not. Add to the fact that there are no Original Copies in the game and you create an oligopoly.
IRL, there are companies who have an item first and make them and sell them for a lot of money. Eventually another company makes their version of the same item and then another and another and so on. That is not happening either.
Eventually this oligopoly will be broken.
Do you understand that this is a tech lvl 2 item. Everyone should have access to tech lvl 1 items which they do. Not everyone is going to have access to tech lvl 2 bps. If you don't like that then quit now and save us all the complaning to come.
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2003.09.23 17:15:00 -
[39]
Monopolies in EVE is something we're going to have to live with, so get used to it.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Helios
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Posted - 2003.09.23 17:16:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Helios on 23/09/2003 17:17:10
This is not Techell faults, and they were a great corp to see an opportunity... They earn all the money they made... When I start this post it was simply to ask for how long? and if this was going to be for the rest of the game so all we get use to this...
But I Ask Techell if they have a problem to make the Miner II BP available unlimited to the market and they seems to not have a problem with this... They make great money and they still do... So is up to de DEVs to make a little thing and make 90 % of the players stop complaining about this issue... everyone will be happy...
If you have a problem with this and you do not belong to Techell you must have a hidden interest and you just want to keep it that way to keep taking advantage of it with other player times....
So if you are not form Techell tell me why wouldnĘt you be happy if this miner II BP goes unlimited in the market... or stop posting about all that crap of fair market...
If Techell was a problem with this (One of them say no problem) Let us know how much time you think it will be fari that this situations keeps going on... One week, one moth or forever? so we can know what are your intentions with unbalance issues in this game...
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Gravedancer
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Posted - 2003.09.23 17:26:00 -
[41]
Quote:
I'm find this entire Miner II deal disgusting. I'm a die-hard capitalist yet this is NOT capitalism. In real capitalism there is competition. Here there is NONE!!!!
Im especially disgusted with Techell (read their mega for miners deal forum) and their arrogance. Sure theyre only charging 2.5mil per miner II (or were). Now they want us to mine their mega for them and be slave labor. Instead of doing what we want (trading in my case) I'm forced to be a slave-labor miner if I want a Miner II.
You always have the option of NOT using a miner II. Competition doesnt mean everyone has the exact same thing and beat each other to death trying to sell it lower than everyone else in order to get sales. I mean if you are playing EVE then you must have a Microsoft windows operating system on your computer right ? Do you hear the people at caldara screaming "Hey its not fair, we want to be able to sell Windows too.. why should Microsoft be the only one to sell it?". And before you say that microsoft developed windows and has a right to sell it.. well thats what blueprints effectively are in this game.. its supposed to simulate companies "developing" an item. I believe that when designing this game, CCP INTENDED for their to be more monopolies on items, not less. Blueprints were never supposed to be as widely circulated as they are. This is because CCP evidentally didnt forsee people using unlimited BP copies to sell to every tom **** and harry so that everyone could build everything. I think the BP copies were originally intended only so that companies who had an original could send a copy out to a sattelite office or something for production. Why do you think that BP copies cant be sold on the market ? CCP didnt intend for them to be sold. The way the market was SUPPOSED to work is that the companies who were rich enough to afford high end BP originals had a virtual monopoly on their market, at least until another company caught up to them financially and could afford their own original. Why do you think original BP's cost so much ? Its to simulate development costs for that item. Personally I think it would have been better had unlimited BP copies never been implemented, and if there were fewer originals of each BP in the game too.. but each corp was prohibited from owning more than 1 original of each class (IE 1 BS original per corp). Youd have competition that way, but it would be competition between different types of battleships, instead of everyoen selling the same cookie cutter copy of an item, and trying to find ways to sell the same thing for more money than the next guy and still get sales.
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Helios
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Posted - 2003.09.23 17:30:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Helios on 23/09/2003 17:57:36
Edited by: Helios on 23/09/2003 17:34:40
Edited by: Helios on 23/09/2003 17:31:43
Gravedancer:
Are you form Techell? NO Then if you want people to listen to your point , tell us why are you against the Minner II BP going unlimited in the market?
Does your corp has the other BP? if Not, how are you making money about this? , cause there is no way you wont like to have miners II at a decent price, unless you are taking advantage of it and then your comment is biass... so is not valid... and don't give us that crap
And then Window (microsoft) have a huge law suit for that and it still in fighting it in Europe... and they just trying to go around... so there you go... Microsoft is not fair... and there is Government to fix that ... CCP has to play the Government role...
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Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:04:00 -
[43]
At this point Techell can't keep up with demand, and as far as I know they are the only corp who is willing to sell Miner IIs at all. Raising the price and changing it from an Isk to Megacyte deal is bad for a lot of people (including me) who can't come up with that much Mega ATM, but it's not their job to run a virtual charity. I regret that, but I'm not bothering with a waiting list, or getting scalped by some trade channel sharpie.
This situation is up to CCP to fix. It's not just that Miner II BPs could be put on the market. They could instead continue to withold the BP but have NPCs start to make and sell Miner IIs at normal NPC volume and markup (about 250% of mineral cost, in my estimation, others may have more precise figures). Then the pressure would be off Techell, we could all get our uuber miners, and hopefully soon after rats would start dropping Dual Diode IIs, XECL IIs, etc :) I'd bet that at this point, rich as it might be making them, Techell would be happy not to have to deal with all the freaking hassle of being the only Miner II show in town. It's not like it's their only way to make money ;)
I can't for the life of me see what we can expect of Techell. They can't make copies, and ATM they are running those BPCs 24/7 making miners that they are selling for less than trade channel prices. If they were selling them for 100K Isk each and then watching ppl resell them for 4 mil each on the trade channel, I'd assume they were stupid. As it is, they are playing out a crappy situation and having to accept the hatred of people who are mad at CCP and jealous of them.
BW
Anywhoo, while we're talking about tech II, I'd like my Afterburner IIs anytime folks!
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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Helios
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:10:00 -
[44]
Quote:
At this point Techell can't keep up with demand, and as far as I know they are the only corp who is willing to sell Miner IIs at all. Raising the price and changing it from an Isk to Megacyte deal is bad for a lot of people (including me) who can't come up with that much Mega ATM, but it's not their job to run a virtual charity. I regret that, but I'm not bothering with a waiting list, or getting scalped by some trade channel sharpie.
This situation is up to CCP to fix. It's not just that Miner II BPs could be put on the market. They could instead continue to withold the BP but have NPCs start to make and sell Miner IIs at normal NPC volume and markup (about 250% of mineral cost, in my estimation, others may have more precise figures). Then the pressure would be off Techell, we could all get our uuber miners, and hopefully soon after rats would start dropping Dual Diode IIs, XECL IIs, etc :) I'd bet that at this point, rich as it might be making them, Techell would be happy not to have to deal with all the freaking hassle of being the only Miner II show in town. It's not like it's their only way to make money ;)
I can't for the life of me see what we can expect of Techell. They can't make copies, and ATM they are running those BPCs 24/7 making miners that they are selling for less than trade channel prices. If they were selling them for 100K Isk each and then watching ppl resell them for 4 mil each on the trade channel, I'd assume they were stupid. As it is, they are playing out a crappy situation and having to accept the hatred of people who are mad at CCP and jealous of them.
BW
Anywhoo, while we're talking about tech II, I'd like my Afterburner IIs anytime folks!
Great point...
So from experience, does anyone know if the DEV ready these forums and help Techell get out of that hate situation they are in?
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Kel 'dra
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:10:00 -
[45]
We could stop offering Miner II's all to gether. who would you all get them from them?
Certainly we are not the ONLY people in town that sell them....
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Kel 'dra
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:12:00 -
[46]
Quote:
At this point Techell can't keep up with demand, and as far as I know they are the only corp who is willing to sell Miner IIs at all. Raising the price and changing it from an Isk to Megacyte deal is bad for a lot of people (including me) who can't come up with that much Mega ATM, but it's not their job to run a virtual charity. I regret that, but I'm not bothering with a waiting list, or getting scalped by some trade channel sharpie.
This situation is up to CCP to fix. It's not just that Miner II BPs could be put on the market. They could instead continue to withold the BP but have NPCs start to make and sell Miner IIs at normal NPC volume and markup (about 250% of mineral cost, in my estimation, others may have more precise figures). Then the pressure would be off Techell, we could all get our uuber miners, and hopefully soon after rats would start dropping Dual Diode IIs, XECL IIs, etc :) I'd bet that at this point, rich as it might be making them, Techell would be happy not to have to deal with all the freaking hassle of being the only Miner II show in town. It's not like it's their only way to make money ;)
I can't for the life of me see what we can expect of Techell. They can't make copies, and ATM they are running those BPCs 24/7 making miners that they are selling for less than trade channel prices. If they were selling them for 100K Isk each and then watching ppl resell them for 4 mil each on the trade channel, I'd assume they were stupid. As it is, they are playing out a crappy situation and having to accept the hatred of people who are mad at CCP and jealous of them.
BW
Anywhoo, while we're talking about tech II, I'd like my Afterburner IIs anytime folks!
I cannot name the number of times I have had someone come and pickup there Miner II's and then turn aroud and resale them on trade channel.
If I had a dollar for every time I would be rich.
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:14:00 -
[47]
Quote:
I wonder.. for how long the miner BP will be only in the few hands of 3 or 4 corps?
The new Emperor will change all that!
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:15:00 -
[48]
Quote:
I cannot name the number of times I have had someone come and pickup there Miner II's and then turn aroud and resale them on trade channel.
If I had a dollar for every time I would be rich.
Kel'dra, no offense. But while what you're doing is not wrong, the situation existing is.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kel 'dra
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:16:00 -
[49]
Jash: your preaching to the choir
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Helios
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:18:00 -
[50]
If I had a dollar for every time I would be rich.
Jajajaja
You shuold start giving money for charity and avoid taxes... And yes your price is correct... if not otherones will be taking advantage
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:28:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Those corporations who have the BPs are just taking advantage of CCP's inability to fix their screw up and they will continue to do so until CCP can fix it.
That is a misconception. CCP could fix the "problem" any time they want. They CHOOSE not to.
Quote:
Certainly we are not the ONLY people in town that sell them....
Actually, you are the only manufacturer who sells Miner 2's on the open market. There are of course resellers, but that's different. My best bet is the market consists of:
25% from pirates who kill miners
10% people who are sick of mining
5% surplus sales from other bp holders
60% people who circumvented your 10 per customer rule
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Kel 'dra
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:31:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Kel 'dra on 23/09/2003 18:32:36
Quote:
60% people who circumvented your 10 per customer rule
Wow. I would have guessed lower. But hey how can you control that?!
If we are the only ones that sell on the open market what the hell is everyone else doing with them?
That is not a monoploy that is a complete lack of suppy.
There is no possible way to meet demand.
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:34:00 -
[53]
Quote:
If I had a dollar for every time I would be rich.
Jajajaja
You shuold start giving money for charity and avoid taxes... And yes your price is correct... if not otherones will be taking advantage
your posts are mostly nonsensical, I answered everything in my first post, about competition, about oligopolies, I don't own the miner II, but I am fine with it being a player held and controlled commodity because its just a Supped up cu vapor, its non-essential.
Also, when it hits the market and everyone has it we will all rush to the next event-given BP with foam at our mouths,
I only think that they were REALLY stringent with the BP, maybe 2 or 3 more.
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Datsevlu
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:38:00 -
[54]
I will post here like I have other places. (thanks for seeing our side on this to the guys who do) Please post here your ideas of what you would do to sell off these miner 2's as they come off the line. Be honest and don't put crap like well I would sell for cost. Because if it came down to it anyone who has the bp that sells at that price would be crazy because you would have everyone in the game comming after you to get that price and you would never be able to play the game. And still with that you will have others that will buy off of you and then resell them.
They will make alts to trick you and alts to buy off of you just to later delete and make a new alt trust me it happens at 2.5 mil and they just will resell at 4 mil and up because people will pay that price.
We have tried since we bought the BP's to be fair with the miner 2's I agree that there should be at least 1 orig in the game but that is up to CCP, also I wish the baby roid problem was gone (would solve our megacyte problem) Don't hate us for what you don't have, we all had the equal chance to buy the bp's when they were for sale by the people who originally had them. We took the chance and bought them and we lowered the price that they were selling for.
Ask CCP to fix the baby roid problem and then most of ours and your problems will go away. And besides once deepcore mining is out the miner 2 will be devalued anyway.
-- Datsevlu
Blow'em up we'll build more.
Techell's ingame site |
iconoclast
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:38:00 -
[55]
mining is boring. keep your miner IIs and increase the ore you mine, whatever. add the damn things to rare covoy drops to make NCP hunting worthwhile (how disappointed I was the first time I wacked a convoy coming from a research station to see NO prints, not even cheap ammo ones, and again the next time, and the next)
or give them away when people do their 100th lame agent mission. most of all - chill out, why are you so impatient in the first place? you want 7-11's at every station in the game selling you everything you could possibly want as soon as it's availible? the only reason blueprint copies are needed is because non-miners cant afford to buy doodoo, especially once they rack up their convoy limits (and cant even reduce by greasing the right concord bueracrats). and cant steal it from the big corps neither, lovely.
please, please give me a way in the game to take your shiny new tech II and the ore you dug with it away from you with my fellow banditos, however you obtain them. when you are mining a roid 53 AU from the station how come the cops are there instantly to protect you?!! I can't warp that fast... how the hell do the cops? its pretty sucky. all these players talking about how they want their corp to be hired mercinares... to protect against what? no one bothers you in empire playland mining simulation. joy. you get the most money and dont even have to spend a penny on security because the local fuzz is pretty much unstoppable. nice. whatever with the availibily of your shiny new mining turrents. cry me a river.
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Kel 'dra
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:38:00 -
[56]
I am not sure what happened to them all but I count 5 unlimited miner BPs in game
2 we have
1 was destroyed
so there are 2 more out there somewhere.
I think stain has 1
*shrugs*
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.23 18:42:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Wow. I would have guessed lower. But hey how can you control that?!
If we are the only ones that sell on the open market what the hell is everyone else doing with them?
That is not a monoploy that is a complete lack of suppy.
There is no possible way to meet demand.
I'm not saying you should try to control it, nor am I suggesting that it's somehow "your fault". I was just trying to point out the reality of the situation. You pretty much are the "only game in town".
Personally, I think 3M is a fair price for an item that is 11 m3/min better (before skill bonuses) than the next closest laser. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Gigi Ana
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Posted - 2003.09.23 19:04:00 -
[58]
Seems to be working in an appropriate capitalistic way:
As long as buyers are willing to pay the price, you aren't charging too much.
Different question: Should the BP be as restricted as they are? Probably not.
~Gigi~ |
annoing
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Posted - 2003.09.23 19:12:00 -
[59]
Edited by: annoing on 23/09/2003 19:18:23
Quote:
next time it will be someone else.
(Deasdemona)
no it wont, it will be TTi again, or some other corp that is favourite of the Devs in this game. There is no freedom of market for the vast majority of players over technology like this.
The Devs in their wisdom only see fit to reward ther favourites. And they wonder why people resent them so 
I dont blame Tetchell for this situation...they bought theirs, SA has one from the storyline of Jove so therefore good luck to them, but i do blame ccp.
As for mega roids that burn out quickly... well thats funny, im mining bistot that still hasnt blown after 1200 units from one roid 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Inquisition
Long live the Inquisition
Long live the Emperor
Long live Amarr!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
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