Originally by: Mazar Byrd

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I dont know if its been said or not but, why do gleam crystals have a 20% decrease in shields, and a 25% sig radius increase for each crystal used? That blows. Basically they make us more vunerable and still only do em and thermal damage. Doesnt make sence to me.

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Originally by: Forsch

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If the Apoc's cap bonus was changed to 5-7.5% armor resists per level we'd have a perfect line of ships going from frigates through cruisers to battleship:
Punisher -> Maller -> Prophecy -> Apocalypse

Omen -> new Battlecruiser -> Armageddon
Arbitrator -> new Battleship

This along with a Khanid overhaul would be a good start!

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Originally by: Reatu Krentor

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Originally by: eLLioTT wave

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Originally by: Forsch

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If the Apoc's cap bonus was changed to 5-7.5% armor resists per level we'd have a perfect line of ships going from frigates through cruisers to battleship:
Punisher -> Maller -> Prophecy -> Apocalypse

Omen -> new Battlecruiser -> Armageddon
Arbitrator -> new Battleship

This along with a Khanid overhaul would be a good start!

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close but no cigar!

armor bonuses mean jack all atm because most everyone is using 3x EAN II,s with the passive armor skills so the resist penaltys come into play and only give us a teeny weeny advantage. Extra armor means jack all as well.
What we NEED for us to be good tankers is the resist bonus with no penalty. Let the penalty apply for modules still (and all other ships) but for amarr armor tanking ships make it a non penalised bonus. Eg 5% resists to armor per level @ level 5 would = +25% so that alone would take 60% em to 85% em base.
Yes this means amarr armor tanking ships can tank like a good hac (which is how it should be). If nothing else at least let us tank! we have enough trouble with em/therm only damage and crappy cap/pg to try fit beams.

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A ship armor resist bonus(like the +5% to all armor resists/lvl on maller) do not get counted towards stacking penalty.
IOW what you say you want is already the case . Give same bonus(perhaps even stronger) to apoc and you have a nice bs.
em/therm damage is sick against shields. PG on lasers could perhaps use a look(especially on frig lasers). Cap use is high because T1 ammo doesn't get used, though the cap reduction bonus puts it near hybrid cap use(which do use ammo).

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Originally by: Sarmaul

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If you can't defend your arguments for getting Amarr boosted then please stop posting, you aren't helping your own cause.

Last time I checked this was a "discussion forum", not a "one-sided discussion forum".

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Originally by: Dixon

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Originally by: Gelinder

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So let me get this straight, I'm a new player so I might have missed something.

They gave laser a built in dmg bonus, but balanced it with high cap usage.

Then they gave all the laser ships -50% cap usage on lasers. Fine.

Then they release EANM II which basicly negates the laser dmg advantage due to EM resists on armor.

So now we are stuck with guns that do normal dmg with normal cap usage, wich results in amaar ships only having one bonus per ship

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This is probably the best summary of current amarr problems in this tread...

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Originally by: Xendie

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minmatar got the perfect long range alpha strike fleet battleship
full rack of 1400's, 4 SB2, 2 tracking comps, 1 med rep, 2 tracking enhancers and 3 gyro2's
that should fit nicely with the stats that are out so far.
and it will be a mean tanker that can shoot and tank at the same time

the rohk will be a 200k+ sniper with tech1 gear, cheap in fittings and usage, awesome with tech2 gear
it will propably pretty nasty at close range also.
and yes it will be able to shoot and tank at the same time

gallente will get the nastiest blasterboat ever with its higher speed and lower inertia it will be ontop of anyone really fast and then eat them up.
havent seen the stats on this one but i assume it will be able to shoot and tank at the same time.

then we have the Tier1 and Tier2 BS also where most can shoot and tank at the same time.
ships that come to mind is megathron, raven, domi, phoon, tempest, apoc with pitiful dmg, geddon with smallest large guns.

and then the amarr get the abbadon wich cant shoot and tank at the same time.
the maelstrom will be able to tank better then the abbadon and shoot at the same time.
im pretty sure that any other ship then amarr's will be able to do that.
with the cap usage at 100% on amarr gun on that ship it will need 2 cap injectors to have a chance of staying alive.
ah yes i forgot to mention that the stats also says that the abbadon will have the smallest cargobay also so it cant carry all the cap boosters it would actually need.
with this configuration every abbadon pilot will need someone in a bestower to follow him around and hand him cap boosters every 2min.
to bad that the bestower isnt bulletproof wich will get him killed right off the bat and then leaving the abbadon without cap boosters anyway.

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Originally by: Andreask14

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The Abbadon needs 4 missile slots, so you can rat well in it.

I am so fed up with not having a decent ratting ship as amarr.

4 missile slots on it wont hurt anyone now, would they ?

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Originally by: Stephar

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I still don't understand why we don't have an upgrade to the Punisher > Maller > Prophecy line. We have a lot of dubious ship designs, but this was one of the few that made sense. The combination of tanking and sustained firepower... you'd think this design would have made the transition to the battleship level. After all, isn't that what Amarr is all about?

Instead, we get watered down versions in the Apoc, Geddon, and Abaddon. Apoc & Geddon get the sustained firepower, the Abaddon gets the tanking resists. Would it be too much to ask for one of our three battleships to incorporate both bonuses? Here's what I'd like to see them do with our battleship line:

Armageddon = -10% energy turret cap, +5% energy turret ROF (8/3/8 layout, 125m3 drone bay)
Apocalypse = +10% drone damage/hp, +5% tracking disruptor (6/6/6 layout, 200m3 drone bay)
Abaddon = -10% energy turret cap, +5% armor resists (8/4/8 layout, 75m3 drone bay)

This would mirror our cruiser line: Armageddon = Omen, Apocalpyse = Arbitrator, Abaddon = Maller. The only one that would need serious tweaking is the Apoc... but the devs have already said they're going to reexamine it anyways.

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Originally by: Cosmo Raata

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Originally by: eLLioTT wave

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What's everyone think about ditching all our resist bonuses and change it to repair amount bonus?

This could possibly be a bonus applying to all amarr ships with a few exceptions which would fit in RP wise as we are supposed to be tankers.

5% bonus to repair amount per level?

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Honestly I think a 50% cap reduction is in order on all lasers, then remove the uselss bonus that left over & then ccp should poll its players for suggestions on bonuses for each ships that needs a new bonus. Repair amount on the apoc would be nice as a suggestion. But I think the Abaddon needs to be changed entirely, otherwise who cares whats done to the Apoc or Geddy, as all i'd fly would be abaddons.

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Originally by: Xordus

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Originally by: DrEiak

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BUMP!
I am sticking by my guns, I say reduce laser cap useage by about 25% flat (so lasers that hypothetically use 100 base cap would use 75), change controlled burst skill to 10% reduction. (so that for each 75 cap it could be reduced to 37.5 cap) Then change all our 10% reduction bonuses to something else. Compared to the current system with maxed skills 100 cap would be reduced to 75 via controlled burst lvl 5. Then ship skills would reduce it by 50% to 37.5. same cap, but this applys to all races regarding lasers, so if they REALLY wanted to anyone COULD POTENTAILLY fit them. ALSO gallente would stop *****ing about how much cap blasters use because controlled burst would help em out. Amarr would get a roll boost because that 10% could be moved to RoF, Damage, Tank, NOS/Neut bonuses (which we SHOULD get anyways!), drone bonuses (maybe), even a missle bonus (add a launcher hardpoint or 2 to the arbi please). Amarr ships could do their job, lasers would be mostly unchanged, and our ships would fill their rolls better by having 2 bonuses instead of just one. Plus lasers really dont melt shields like i head someone saying. Shield tankers highest resists are often EM and thermal. Plus shield tanking is more efficent then armor tanking. Many amarr ships could use a 10% armor increase skill or a 5% resist skill instead of that 10% laser cap reduction, so I think my suggestion is not FUBAR.

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It is my opinion that lasers are supposed to be high cap, high damage. Amarr ships have the best cap of any and as such they can maintain these weapons. Reducing cap consumption doesn't fix any of the problems lasers face.

The two problems with lasers is base damage output and the fact that said damage output is in the form of the two most tankable damage types. You can argue shields are weak to lasers, but its not difficult to fill those holes and shield tanks only make up maybe 35% of the ships ingame.

In order to fix energy weapons, all lasers need to do atleast 5% more damage than they do right now, or better yet they need to have either a tertiary damage type or the ability to switch damage types. Until this is addressed, lasers will continue to be underpowered in the world of eve.


Xordus

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Originally by: Stephar

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Originally by: madaluap

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Edited by: madaluap on 09/08/2006 15:53:53
Ok i dislike ammar not using EM as primary damage (its just your damage (sorry)).

But instead of making Explosive crystals, why not just add a bit of explosive to ALL (ALL part is important) crystaltypes.

EM 50%
Therm 25%
Explosive 25%

or

EM 40%
Therm 30%
Explosive 30%

idea?

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This would be nice. Could go something like:

Radio = 100% EM
Standard = 60% EM, 20% thermal, 20% explosive
Multifrequency = 33% EM, 33% thermal, 33% explosive

Most importantly, as Mr. Peanut noted, EVE physics are a lot different than real-world physics. So arguing that it doesn't make sense, well... doesn't make sense.

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Originally by: Madcat Adams

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Originally by: Lucre

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Originally by: Wulfgard

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Wasn't the Minmatars whine +75pages (1 or 2 yrs ago), we still have some room to go

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Ah, but you have to remember racial styles - Minmatar excel at alpha-whinage, long whines but low rate of posting, whereas Amarr should excel at whinage over time.

The problem is also one of dev resistances to Amarr whinage. It used to be more reasonable, but ever since standard fit for a dev became 2 enhanced adaptive no-no's and a corporate damage control the average resistance to Amarr whinage has become unacceptably high...

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/08/2006 14:46:55
I had originally posted about the EANMII + DC hidden nerf to amarr weeks before this thread. If I remember correctly, I got labled as a clown until other Amarr pilots started to notice the same thing recently.

Now, first of all, EANMII's should not be nerfed - Why? Just make the compensation skill boost active hardners from 55% to 65-70%. That way people will go back to Active hardners and suffer the gimpage in damage output that Amarr pilots are used to.

Secondly, if Compensation skills are not boosted, then there is one small change that simple to implement and will cut down the whines.

Give lasers perfect tracking. (This is different from saying Guarenteed hit, read below)

Yes, for a long time now people say "How can a laser miss, Projectiles should miss! L0lzEr!". Why dont we fix this so that amarr have perfect tracking, and only miss due to signature size vs turret resoultion. I for one, would accept perfect tracking in exchange for the gimped damage output.

With that said, all is forgiven if the Abaddon is a Missile or Drone boat!

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Originally by: Krulla

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Edited by: Krulla on 12/08/2006 21:35:38
My whole damn point was that comparing player resistances to NPC resistances is *edit* retarded, and has no bearing whatsoever on game balance - NPCs have equal resistances accross the board for each bounty class.

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Originally by: Cuisinart

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Seems almost pointless. Kinda obvious the devs just don't give a damn or they would have interjected with a few words.

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Originally by: DrEiak

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IF YOU POST HERE READ THIS!

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