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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 08:30:00 -
[1]
with the Mega now able to wtfpwn at close range and long range
Minmatar use no cap on their guns and.... yeah need alittle more loving though.
and the Domi is the wtfpwn iwin button at close range
Caldari still got the wtfpwn recon jammer, Raven wtfpwning at long range and close range
Amarr got the geddon that does good dmg with no tank on and the apoc that does more dmg with projectiles then megapulses
can we get our explosive crystals soon?
 Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Bazman
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Posted - 2006.05.28 08:34:00 -
[2]
Only if we get EM Hybrid ammo
And i can't think of any ship other than the Geddon that is the Mid Range wtfkiller. They are awesome long range too, much better than the Megathron at long distances tbh.
You do need a close range ship though, hopefully the new Amarr BS will have something funky that makes it good at close range. Cross your fingers! :P
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Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.05.28 08:34:00 -
[3]
perhaps
but first all t2 ammo that does more damage than the old t2 high dmg ammo needs to be removed
t2 ammo should help your ship be more defensive not offensive!
-------------------Sig-----------------------
welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s |
Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 08:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gronsak
perhaps
but first all t2 ammo that does more damage than the old t2 high dmg ammo needs to be removed
t2 ammo should help your ship be more defensive not offensive!
it wouldnt have to be all 3 dmg types on the crystals, perhaps thermal as primary and explosive as secondary.
can of course be tweaked up and down in values so it doesnt get overpowered.
i see so much love going the way of gallente and caldari that it has to be time for atleast some love for amarr.
and for EM hybrid ammo i wouldnt be against that either as long as it is applied properly.
atm though i think its time for a little amarr love.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 08:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bazman
Only if we get EM Hybrid ammo
And i can't think of any ship other than the Geddon that is the Mid Range wtfkiller. They are awesome long range too, much better than the Megathron at long distances tbh.
You do need a close range ship though, hopefully the new Amarr BS will have something funky that makes it good at close range. Cross your fingers! :P
for the geddon to be mid range wtfkiller it needs to use megapulses with the highest dmg crystal and atm one push of the mwd on the mega and he is in range of the geddon and under his guns tracking, and the geddon with megapulses on cant fit anywhere near as good tank as the mega or the domi with equal firepower in the highs.
atm amarr got a mid to long range sniper with good dmg and a long range sniper/short range tanker with pitiful dmg up close with amarr guns on.
its amazing that we have to fit autocannons to do close to equal dmg and tank up close.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Ather Ialeas
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Posted - 2006.05.28 08:57:00 -
[6]
I'm craving for em/explosive T2 crystals like the ones they tested on SiSi before introducing the whole T2 ammo hassle at Tq but I also realize that it does sway the balance quite a lot: Tanking three damage type against possible foes (read: wtfpwning Amarrs) against tanking two damage types is a lot harder thus hindering your own capability to wtfbbq that awesome Amarrian overlord. This problem obviously comes to play when the brave Amarrian decides to do a multicrystal fit (I do that every now and then) and use f.e. 3 Auroras, 2 Scorches and x amount of em+exp dmg dealing crystals resulting in a total of 24*3+36*2+x*y=144+x*y EM and 14*3+6*2=54 THERM and x*z EXP (where y is the Mystery Crystal's EM damage and z is Mystery Crystal's EXP damage) damage done without damage multipliers, base damages etc. and knowing how Amarr T2 ammo is balanced in general, the y and z would most probably be somewhere around 30 and 10 making the EM damage quite high (not as high as with pure Aurora setup though) but making the explosive dmg an annoying damage dealer to the target which at least in PvP situation wouldn't be tanking that hard in the first place at all since PvP is mainly about damage dealing and EW.
So while I agree that Amarrians should get a third damage type to their crystals I am aware of the problem that it would sway the balance a lot and most likely just cause a gazillion new "nerf Amarr" and "omg boost hybrids" threads.
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My signature exploded :/ |
me sukyu
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:10:00 -
[7]
yeah lets make the zelot the complete IWIN ship 
60/80/62.5/35
damn uber resistances, and look 80% to explovsive!
oh whats that, minatar t2 ammo does mostly explosive? haha sucks to be them, and it gets worse
munnin
92.5/10/25/67.5
oh nice, perfect for fighting laser ships...what theres explosive crystals now? oh well **** minmatar, no one likes them anyway
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
I'm craving for em/explosive T2 crystals like the ones they tested on SiSi before introducing the whole T2 ammo hassle at Tq but I also realize that it does sway the balance quite a lot: Tanking three damage type against possible foes (read: wtfpwning Amarrs) against tanking two damage types is a lot harder thus hindering your own capability to wtfbbq that awesome Amarrian overlord. This problem obviously comes to play when the brave Amarrian decides to do a multicrystal fit (I do that every now and then) and use f.e. 3 Auroras, 2 Scorches and x amount of em+exp dmg dealing crystals resulting in a total of 24*3+36*2+x*y=144+x*y EM and 14*3+6*2=54 THERM and x*z EXP (where y is the Mystery Crystal's EM damage and z is Mystery Crystal's EXP damage) damage done without damage multipliers, base damages etc. and knowing how Amarr T2 ammo is balanced in general, the y and z would most probably be somewhere around 30 and 10 making the EM damage quite high (not as high as with pure Aurora setup though) but making the explosive dmg an annoying damage dealer to the target which at least in PvP situation wouldn't be tanking that hard in the first place at all since PvP is mainly about damage dealing and EW.
So while I agree that Amarrians should get a third damage type to their crystals I am aware of the problem that it would sway the balance a lot and most likely just cause a gazillion new "nerf Amarr" and "omg boost hybrids" threads.
im not thinking of making it stronger then the ammo we got already.
and i dont recommend that it will be EM+Explosive but rather Thermal+Explosive.
heck even make a new T1 version also with T1 levels of it.
dmg output doesnt have to be more just different.
its silly when the amarr hac cant dmg a minmatar one at all just because he has a EM hardener on.
there is no other race that has that huge limitations versus their racial enemy like the amarr has, and amarr havent got anything speaking for it at the moment.
look at Caldari, Great ECM ships, Great Missile ships, Great Shield tanking BS
look at Gallente, Dominix wtfpwn iwin button inside 25k, Megathron very good dmg output with good tank at close range, Mega good sniper with +tracking bonus, best carrier
look atMinmatar, best Hac going at inty speeds 3k+, best oneshot dmg snipers with explosive dmg, great frigates, 4 midslot inty
and then there is Amarr, shiny textures, Tachyons are somewhat usable now but still you need several slots dedicated to caprecharge or you will not be shooting for long, any amarr ship basically gets wtfpwned by a vagabond since the amarr guns cant do any dmg to it.
EM and thermal is the 2 most tanked dmg types ingame.
and its the only dmg that we can do with our guns.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: me sukyu
rabble..rabble
first.. post with your main.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tassi on 28/05/2006 09:22:26
I always see whining gallente dudes. They cant fit neutrons and a double large repper tank. I mean WTF dudes if I want to fit guns + double rep tank on my geddon I need to downgrade to dual heavy pulses and still need a CPU and only have 2x t2 heat sinks.
Optimal is very nice with Scorch and damage aswell but a blaserthron is hard to beat! Against a dominix you can eject anyway.
Apoc is nice with neuts/nos but still crappy damage, not the same as a dominix which has wtfpwn dmg and nice ecm.
Ah well, tachygeddon, with 2x RCU, very good closerange!
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tassi
Ah well, tachygeddon, with 2x RCU, very good closerange!
hahaha the sweet sarcasm 
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tassi on 28/05/2006 09:31:53
I bet when the first caldari/Gallente warriors see this topic we will hear:
"YOU DON'T NEED AMMO" Yeah, the crystals I fit into my guns that cost quite more than your ammo and will be destroyed aswell when the ship pops cost nothing right?
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:46:00 -
[13]
Edited by: LUKEC on 28/05/2006 09:48:28
nm
Die, die, die. |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:48:00 -
[14]
The "no ammo" aspect of lasers is pretty much countered by the "needs lots of cap" aspect. Of cource, getting the ship skill high helps, but it's not like that bonus is free.
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Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tassi on 28/05/2006 09:50:25
Originally by: LUKEC
Sniff... that funny thing about going under the tracking of megapulses... ever heard of WEB?
But the blasterthron will still outdamage you even if you web it. And it has a double large armor rep tank on, which you don't because you are going with mega pulses so no grid left.
So the bthron does more dps + has a tank! You have less dps and no tank at all.
EDIT: Sorry lukec, I am just faster than you 
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: Tassi
Edited by: Tassi on 28/05/2006 09:31:53
I bet when the first caldari/Gallente warriors see this topic we will hear:
"YOU DON'T NEED AMMO" Yeah, the crystals I fit into my guns that cost quite more than your ammo and will be destroyed aswell when the ship pops cost nothing right?
Sniff... that funny thing about going under the tracking of megapulses... ever heard of WEB?
the megas mass still pushes him the last 5k needed to get into his most damaging optimal so a web dont do much difference as he can now fit a good tank and a high dmg output wich the geddon cannot do equally good.
as for the domi thats a nobrainer as he will suck the geddon dry inside 25k and jam him and put out more dmg then the geddon at the same time while having a hell of alot better tank.
amarr needs abit of dev loving in the shortgame also
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:52:00 -
[17]
Medium beam lasers need their pg requirements fixed aswell.
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What can I put here without getting banned? |
Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aramendel
The "no ammo" aspect of lasers is pretty much countered by the "needs lots of cap" aspect. Of cource, getting the ship skill high helps, but it's not like that bonus is free.
i would not mind loading my beams or pulses with 25-100 crystals that costs a few isk per shot so i dont have to carry 25mill+ in ammo on every ship.
i bet you dont see a mega toting around constantly with 25+mill in ammo in their cargo all the time now do you?
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.28 09:58:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tassi on 28/05/2006 09:59:26
The only way to beat a blasterthron is if the fight starts outside 20 km or you use ECM drones, but the blasterthron can use them aswell so thats no argument here. If the blasterthron is using EANMII's to tank you have lost already.
80% EM resist is not cool 
EDIT: Amarr is still cool, if you have implants like Hanns
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 10:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tassi
Edited by: Tassi on 28/05/2006 09:59:26
The only way to beat a blasterthron is if the fight starts outside 20 km or you use ECM drones, but the blasterthron can use them aswell so thats no argument here. If the blasterthron is using EANMII's to tank you have lost already.
80% EM resist is not cool
EDIT: Amarr is still cool, if you have implants like Hanns
and then amarr cant use their most dmg crystal either as we need to go for the higher range one because of the centimeter long falloff we have.
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.28 10:11:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tassi on 28/05/2006 10:12:02
Another problem is that the -50% optimal ammo cripples amarr more than other races. -50% optimal is peanuts for autocannons/arties compared to lasers because their strenght is falloff! The same but to a lesser extent goes for blasters/railguns.
EDIT: I think amarr got left behind for quite some time because we have not enough whiners/Warriors.
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General Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.05.28 10:13:00 -
[22]
The fact that lasers don't need ammo is an advantage only in grinding battles that last over 1h or in long jouneys in 0.0 I've benn plaing this game for quite sometime and i can't remenber when Amarr got some love. Maybe that's cuz we can't cry and whine all the time. It's time we get some love. We need those EX crystals like a fish needs water.
Apocalypse during a battle:
Crew member - "Sir we have a large hole in our armour. What shall I do?”
Captain - "Take this hammer and go fix it".
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General Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.05.28 10:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: me sukyu
yeah lets make the zelot the complete IWIN ship
60/80/62.5/35
damn uber resistances, and look 80% to explovsive!
oh whats that, minatar t2 ammo does mostly explosive? haha sucks to be them, and it gets worse
munnin
92.5/10/25/67.5
oh nice, perfect for fighting laser ships...what theres explosive crystals now? oh well **** minmatar, no one likes them anyway
U got hardeners and your ammo can do all types of dmg
Apocalypse during a battle:
Crew member - "Sir we have a large hole in our armour. What shall I do?”
Captain - "Take this hammer and go fix it".
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.28 10:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: me sukyu
yeah lets make the zelot the complete IWIN ship
60/80/62.5/35
damn uber resistances, and look 80% to explovsive!
oh whats that, minatar t2 ammo does mostly explosive? haha sucks to be them, and it gets worse
munnin
92.5/10/25/67.5
oh nice, perfect for fighting laser ships...what theres explosive crystals now? oh well **** minmatar, no one likes them anyway
U got hardeners and your ammo can do all types of dmg
Apocalypse during a battle:
Crew member - "Sir we have a large hole in our armour. What shall I do?ö
Captain - "Take this hammer and go fix it".
and their best resist are against EM&Thermal wich is the only dmg amarr guns do 
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.05.28 15:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: me sukyu
munnin
92.5/10/25/67.5
oh nice, perfect for fighting laser ships...what theres explosive crystals now? oh well **** minmatar, no one likes them anyway
If we get t2 explosive crystals, they would probably be balanced damage wise (read: cut down).
What's your Muninn doing if it's fighting a Muninn which is doing mainly explosive damage? Even more ****** than against lasers, huh?
Explosive crystals won't be unbalancing as long as their damage is reasonable. But that's not what people are arguing about on these forums. They hear explosive crystals and totally freak out.
Forsch
Defender of the empire
More love for side factions! |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:32:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Aramendel on 28/05/2006 16:32:15
The problem is basically that Amarr BSs are (with one exeption) the only ones which have only 2 hard damagetypes.
Minnies - projectile ammo with all damagetypes
Caladri - missles with..
Gallente - drones with.. for the Dominix at least. The Megathron has in this aspect a similar problem with it being limited to 2 damagetypes, but a Mega pilot can at least switch to a Domi when needed without having to learn another BS skill.
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Calisto Cody
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:01:00 -
[27]
i dont like the idea of a explosive crystal..sounds wrong tbh (yes i fly amarr )
The Black Swan Society
Berneh is not appropriate for the forums - |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:07:00 -
[28]
I definately agree there, a laser doing explosive damage would be..strange. But, unless my physics knowledge totally betrays me, a laser doing EM damage is about as impossible.
From a realistic standpoint lasers should only do thermal damage.
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Ather Ialeas
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Calisto Cody
i dont like the idea of a explosive crystal..sounds wrong tbh (yes i fly amarr )
Lasers are light which is one of the purest form of energy. Shooting very high amounts of energy to anything that's made of atoms will cause either neutrons or electrons to start shifting in those atoms and thus the making the atoms react with each other in one form or another. There's couple of possible reactions, one is fusion of two or more atoms which makes the atoms combine to something totally different or the electrons and lose atoms may turn into ionized cloud in a rapid fashion thus causing an "explosion" of sorts, more accurately a gazillion atomic explosions.
Totally unrelated, the body heat which human body creates is caused by constant combustion in our cells. It's just so small scaled that we don't see it but chemically we all are constantly exploding 
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My signature exploded :/ |
Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:22:00 -
[30]
you have people that ''fly'' amarr
you have people that ''can fly'' amarr
imo only the 1st have reason to speak here, and yeah atm since most people in eve armor tank and the ones that shield tank still manage to get their EM resist @ 75%, amarr are getting a bit behind, least CCP can do is switch dmg to 2/3 thermal and 1/3 EM instead of 1/3 thermal and 2/3 EM
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