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Malken	Posted - 2006.05.30 11:18:00 - [151] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Edward Sarum Okay skipped through this thread alot to get to the bottom. While I agree that the Amarr need a new weapon for more verisilte damage types I disagree with explosive crystals. Enegery weapons would not explode on contact. They could create an explosion by hitting a fuel tank of ammo bay but that is it. Yes, by all means lets bring realism in to this argument and while we are at it lets drive our volvo's down to yulai prime also. explosion=rapid heat expansion Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.05.30 11:23:00 - [152] Originally by: Dimitri Vorski The EM damage is basically bull**** Electromagnetic Damage (EM)is produceded by EVE lasers because their way of functioning . X amount of electrical energy is dranid from the capacitor , the energy stimulate's the laser crystal and it's trachet into space normaly that woud mean ntothing but we're in 0-G where each object has it's own gravity so it produces it's own magnetic field. The laser beam or pulse travels trought space. The space from where the beam travels it's not 100% void . It contains very few atmos but if contains them. The lasers stimulate the atoms making them electroconductors. Now that dumped elecrical enegy has the means to travel to another object which is not electronegative. Thespot where the laser hit's is repidly heated and transformed to plasma whic is very atractive for electrons as it's atoms go through an insane cycle of electrostimulation. So as the lasesr reaches it's target theose electrons also reach the target. Causing electrical damage and due to the fact that we are in 0 G they create a very powerfull magnetic field combined whit the electrical jolt this causes electromagnetical damage. In other words it powers your computer and fry's it. It's like having a powerd computer during a sun storm. If u don't get it or it seems ilogical do some resaerch of your own. P.S. The laser dosen't explode it makes the targeted spot overheat and explode.
PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2006.05.30 11:27:00 - [153] For teh 1549519583th time!!! GAMEBAAALANCE >>>>>>> REALISM
Soros	Posted - 2006.05.30 11:33:00 - [154] Clearly you have never fought duri X
madaluap	Posted - 2006.05.30 11:34:00 - [155] Edited by: madaluap on 30/05/2006 11:34:46 Originally by: PriceCheckMax For teh 1549519583th time!!! GAMEBAAALANCE >>>>>>> REALISM HAHAHHAHA i was just about to post that hehehe, damn some bigass retards on the forums . BUT,but in RL my lasers hit for Explosive dmg LOL What you got a megabeam on your car? _________________________________________________
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:02:00 - [156] Originally by: PriceCheckMax For teh 1549519583th time!!! GAMEBAAALANCE >>>>>>> REALISM Agreed. It's fun to try to combine both, though. Exept when you get stuff like this: Originally by: General Apocalypse we're in 0-G where each object has it's own gravity so it produces it's own magnetic field. Wrong. A gravity field has nothing to do whatsoever with a magnetic field. Quote: The lasers stimulate the atoms making them electroconductors. Wrong. Matter gets superconductive when it is cooled, not heated up.
fluke vobiscun	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:11:00 - [157] Boost Amarr T1 Cruisers. Boost pulslaser range to before they got nerfed. Boost Armageddon cpu. Replace Apocalypse laser capuse bonus with 5% dmg bonus to projectiles
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:16:00 - [158] 8 mega pulse T2 = Average DPS : 782.118 best range 18840.0m 7 neutron T2 = Average DPS : 998.011 best range 7900m with evry skill at 5 Mega will do more dmg with a range half of the poc. Dunnow what to say more you guys cant see that evEry ship is designed for something . And by this each ship is better than another doing something ... There is no ship for evrything (but raven ) And when coming to snipe apoc with 141km for best range do 403dps Megatron with 155km for best range do 387dps. this is more than similar (this 2 dps are with max skill but spe 4 , 3 dmg mod T2 and T2 long range ammo)
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:18:00 - [159] Originally by: fluke vobiscun Boost Amarr T1 Cruisers. Boost pulslaser range to before they got nerfed. Boost Armageddon cpu. Replace Apocalypse laser capuse bonus with 5% dmg bonus to projectiles Very interesting idea, indeed... but how did the Amarr conquer the Min b4 ?? They dont use Apoc ??? Well, I dont use Apoc at all for pvp for the last 6 months btw, I'm true Amarr !!!!
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:23:00 - [160] Originally by: Nadec Ascand Dunnow what to say more you guys cant see that evEry ship is designed for something . And by this each ship is better than another doing something ... Yeah, true, my apoc is designed only to tank level 4 missions for my friends. Err, but when I have the Gist X-type Xlarge shield booster for a Scorpion... what should I do with my apoc ??

Aramendel	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:23:00 - [161] Originally by: Nadec Ascand 8 mega pulse T2 = Average DPS : 782.118 best range 18840.0m 7 neutron T2 = Average DPS : 998.011 best range 7900m with evry skill at 5 Exept the arma will not be able to fit any tank whatsoever. And travelling the last 10 km and keeping both ships there is not exactly difficult with MWD & Web for the mega. By witch mysthical means does the arma pilot keep the mega at 19km for more than 10 seconds?
Rambo Armsdealer	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:32:00 - [162] Originally by: Soros Clearly you have never fought duri X i use his exact same setup, it gets ripped apart by a mega also, stop using DPS as arguments since dps means nothing if everyone has 80% resistance to EM and 60% to kinetic that's a 25% reduction in DPS if you want to equalize it (or 33.3% I'm not sure I can't be arsed to think about it but it's the same idea)
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:39:00 - [163] Edited by: MacQueen on 30/05/2006 12:40:09 Originally by: Soros also, stop using DPS as arguments since dps means nothing if everyone has 80% resistance to EM and 60% to kinetic that's a 25% reduction in DPS if you want to equalize it (or 33.3% I'm not sure I can't be arsed to think about it but it's the same idea) 29.2 % reduction in DPS using Multifrequency L EM/Ther ratio factor conpare to Antimatter L Kin/Ther factor.
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:40:00 - [164] evryboddy dont tank armor u know... and for the argment evry ship dont have 80% resist in em... or does they all fear a ship wich is so bugged than u cant kill anything... why does evryone would tank something wich do crap dmg when We do so crazy dmg ,why is there so much amarr evry where when gallente/caldari/matar are so cool... And Appoc is 8 turret ARMA is 7. I still dont see u want to kill in duel a ship design for this kind of battle from start (playing for 3 years now) Megatron as always been design to be king of duel, he is no good at missionning worst than poc for sniping and will die to any cap sux ship.
Dimitri Vorski	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:45:00 - [165] Originally by: Nadec Ascand evryboddy dont tank armor u know... and for the argment evry ship dont have 80% resist in em... or does they all fear a ship wich is so bugged than u cant kill anything... why does evryone would tank something wich do crap dmg when We do so crazy dmg ,why is there so much amarr evry where when gallente/caldari/matar are so cool... And Appoc is 8 turret ARMA is 7. I still dont see u want to kill in duel a ship design for this kind of battle from start (playing for 3 years now) Megatron as always been design to be king of duel, he is no good at missionning worst than poc for sniping and will die to any cap sux ship. every ship dies to cap suck ships and mega>apoc at sniping this is not about duel it's about general usage and it's a fact that usually in pvp people armor tank since med slots are too valuable to tank with with the passive armor mod boosts fitting 2 EANM II's, which is pretty much mandatory, gets your EM resists @ 80%
Astrum Ludus	Posted - 2006.05.30 12:50:00 - [166] Originally by: Yurdis Astor Everything else I fly, is allways undocked with a funny gut feeling. thought that was just me :\
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2006.05.30 13:18:00 - [167] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nadec Ascand 8 mega pulse T2 = Average DPS : 782.118 best range 18840.0m 7 neutron T2 = Average DPS : 998.011 best range 7900m with evry skill at 5 Exept the arma will not be able to fit any tank whatsoever. And travelling the last 10 km and keeping both ships there is not exactly difficult with MWD & Web for the mega. By witch mysthical means does the arma pilot keep the mega at 19km for more than 10 seconds? With maxed skills, Mega with 7 T2 neutrons and T2 100MN MWD has 3113.1 grid and something like 291 CPU remaining. With maxed skills, Apoc with 8 T2 mega pulses has 4575 grid and 307 CPU remaining. It also has 78% more cap/cap recharge available than Mega. With maxed skills, Arma with 7 T2 mega pulses has 3300 grid and 284.25 CPU remaining. Its DoT is also 912.471 if the above calculations were correct. Don't like the closing speed? Fit a MWD yourself. What, it cripples your cap? Believe me, I know. By the way, some advice: Tuxford has mentioned that he pays much, much more attention to threads that include accurate numbers in them. And I don't blame him - everyone feels that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. -- Gradient's forum
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.05.30 13:54:00 - [168] Ok pll i posted those explanations only to kill some of the oposition like "it's unrealistical for explosive dmg on lasers boohoohoo". The true is that i don't give a dam on RL i just whant lasers boosted. If the game was 100% RL it woud be boring. And all of those who like lasers or fell like their Amarr suport this topic and post . If we reach 20 pages of post maybe some DEV woud look and take the necesar measure ad thea measure is :
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.05.30 13:54:00 - [169] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nadec Ascand 8 mega pulse T2 = Average DPS : 782.118 best range 18840.0m 7 neutron T2 = Average DPS : 998.011 best range 7900m with evry skill at 5 Exept the arma will not be able to fit any tank whatsoever. And travelling the last 10 km and keeping both ships there is not exactly difficult with MWD & Web for the mega. By witch mysthical means does the arma pilot keep the mega at 19km for more than 10 seconds? With maxed skills, Mega with 7 T2 neutrons and T2 100MN MWD has 3113.1 grid and something like 291 CPU remaining. With maxed skills, Apoc with 8 T2 mega pulses has 4575 grid and 307 CPU remaining. It also has 78% more cap/cap recharge available than Mega. With maxed skills, Arma with 7 T2 mega pulses has 3300 grid and 284.25 CPU remaining. Its DoT is also 912.471 if the above calculations were correct. Don't like the closing speed? Fit a MWD yourself. What, it cripples your cap? Believe me, I know. By the way, some advice: Tuxford has mentioned that he pays much, much more attention to threads that include accurate numbers in them. And I don't blame him - everyone feels that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. 7 megapulses + mwd and a tank on a geddon, rite Fit all that and dont gimp the setup and i will give you a cookie. And lol an apoc for closerange vs. a mega Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.05.30 15:05:00 - [170] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nadec Ascand 8 mega pulse T2 = Average DPS : 782.118 best range 18840.0m 7 neutron T2 = Average DPS : 998.011 best range 7900m with evry skill at 5 Exept the arma will not be able to fit any tank whatsoever. And travelling the last 10 km and keeping both ships there is not exactly difficult with MWD & Web for the mega. By witch mysthical means does the arma pilot keep the mega at 19km for more than 10 seconds? With maxed skills, Mega with 7 T2 neutrons and T2 100MN MWD has 3113.1 grid and something like 291 CPU remaining. With maxed skills, Apoc with 8 T2 mega pulses has 4575 grid and 307 CPU remaining. It also has 78% more cap/cap recharge available than Mega. With maxed skills, Arma with 7 T2 mega pulses has 3300 grid and 284.25 CPU remaining. Its DoT is also 912.471 if the above calculations were correct. Don't like the closing speed? Fit a MWD yourself. What, it cripples your cap? Believe me, I know. By the way, some advice: Tuxford has mentioned that he pays much, much more attention to threads that include accurate numbers in them. And I don't blame him - everyone feels that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. So you include some numbers in each post by you even though they have no real meaning to the discussion? Or does the comparsion of the CPU/PG need of the megas guns with MWD vs the Apoc and Aramas closerange setup without MWD mean anything here? The point is still unchanged, the medium range advantage of the arma is basically not there because a mega can travel that distance rather fast. And the Arma cannot make a MWD race with the mega and simultany keep the guns up, so it's not like you can use a MWD of your own to keep your medium range and destroy the mega from there. It's either the Mega using the MWD to get to <10 km and blast the Arma to kingdom come or the Arma uss a MWD of its own to keep the Mega on 20 km but won't have cap left to keep any meaningful amount of dps on the mega. No matter how you look at it, the "range advantage" of the arma is not existant.

Kardim	Posted - 2006.05.30 15:40:00 - [171] the main and major problem with amarr is with the turrets, in all honesty lasers suck. If you train to lvl 5 specialization you are still behind other guns, for the few that stuck w/ amarr feeling that the cycle would return amarr to some point of power are feeling a good bit screeewwwd. The problems IMO roots back to when everyone used only beams (because there was no tracking)and ccp decided to make pulses feasible to use.... so everyone used pulses for a good long time.... then ccp decided to overhaul the lasers, not for the good of amarr or lasers mind u but to balance the armageddon.... basing all the lasers off the damage of one ship is in no other terms ludicrous. And mind you, that not only did lasers get nerfed they messed with the dmg from crystals at the same time. Most call this balance ,when using medium pulses you cant hit a webbed interceptor while using his own a/b, i call it nerfed. We received a double whammy at one time, while all the other races were being looked at and given bonus's, the amarr kept all the nerfs placed upon her head.
tenp1	Posted - 2006.05.30 16:57:00 - [172] Edited by: tenp1 on 30/05/2006 17:02:33 Yes I remember the build up the the damage type changes on lasers. I remember how hybrid users whined so much that they got the same change overturned for hybrid ammo ( they were going to be more thermal damage than kinetic like lasers ended with much more em than thermal). At the same time whenever anyone mentioned that lasers were getting screwed in the same way, the answer was always "EM is amarr's racial damage type" and thermal wasn't galante's? Anyway I digress, since the main reason for the nerf was like already mentioned, to balance the no longer possible 8 HS II geddon (and by doing so screw every other turret especially small pulse with the range change), lasers no longer have a reason for that nerf. In the very least they should be put back to the pre nerf ranges and crystal damage types, along with medium beams getting a PG needed reduction. Radio getting a little em damge replace with thermal would go a long way as well ,not to mention getting it's damage put back up to that of the equivilent range hybrid and projectile ammo. And by that I mean the ammo that goes the same range not the longest range ammo, afterall, less range means more damage.
Mahavy Seth	Posted - 2006.05.30 17:12:00 - [173] Originally by: Foomanshoe Originally by: Gronsak perhaps but first all t2 ammo that does more damage than the old t2 high dmg ammo needs to be removed t2 ammo should help your ship be more defensive not offensive! Why would ammo, which is by definition a purely offensive item, make your ship more offensive? I dont remember anyone ever blocking a bullet shot with another bullet. City Hunter
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.05.30 17:14:00 - [174] Continue to whine we will get recognition soooooooooooon(tm) Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥
God forbid	Posted - 2006.05.30 17:26:00 - [175] ok What game have I been playing.. I thought my armageddon where Overpowered.. No its true, I even started to lose 1vs1 on the Test Server purposely Quote: "He did not know, Who he was ******* with."
Fio'el Testament	Posted - 2006.05.30 17:47:00 - [176] Edited by: Fio''el Testament on 30/05/2006 17:49:44 I might mess the scientific terms caz of french, but stick with me and correct me as needed :p I'm gonna talk a little about weapon types. Everything is energy. Kinetic penetrate because when you take their energy and apply it to a surface, they have enough force to penetrate. Thermal is, as someone pointed out very well, the movement of atoms. Absolute zero is no movement; plasma is the happy dance. Explosives are simply very fast expanding clouds of heat. And then you have the electromagnetic domain. E = hf = hc/l What that means is that photons have energy. X rays are photons with a crazy frequency. Radio are photons with much less energy. Theoritically, Radio crystals shouldn't do anything... radios don't even harm us humans (or at least we like to think so) :\| Where it gets interesting is under the visible light spectrum. Ultraviolet, Xrays and Gamma radiation have enormous energy. For example, if you put methane and chlorine and light up with UV light, it will do a chemical reaction resulting in CCl4! The UV has the energy to mess up the chlorine and cause a reaction. The electromagnetic spectrum needs NO mass to travel, that's what makes it so good. It is useless by itself, it's its interaction with matter that makes it dangerous! Gamma radiation can go right through 30 cm of lead, not that's what I call penetrating power! Any photon with enough energy will compeltely fry electronics, throwing electrons everwhere causing an electric current that can be strong enough to destroy the electronics! (photoelectric effect) Enough energy can ionize matter, and see, it gets kind of unstable when it'S jsut free nuclides and electrons... You could literally turn a ship into plasma! Now, the most interesting part of photons are lasers. Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. That's one badass name! So it's amplified light with only one wavelength that's a result of radiation. They are basically beams of energy. Now here's an interesting thing : Nuclear fusion requires energy. You guessed it, scientists HAVE performed nuclear fusion using lasers. Now, what happens if you cause nuclear fusion on your opponent's ship? You guessed it, it goes boom. So lasers fry electrical components (EM), excite the molecules (thermal), and can create nuclear fusion (explosion) resulting in very fast debris (kinetic). QED Edit: This just in from the Discover I read : Cosmic rays = High energy photons with mass and energy = photonic bullets that actually leave a trail in one's brain!!! :\| One astronaut exposed had multiple "bullet" trajectories in his brain because of those. Now imagine condensing those rays... ouch!
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.05.30 18:29:00 - [177] Well, Explosions are not exactly expanding clouds of heats, but essentially preasure waves. It's similar, but not exactly the same. or perhaps I am just a nitpick there. And, yes, Lasers can fry electronics, but thats kinda different to it damaging/destroying armor and hull as it does right now.
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.05.30 18:32:00 - [178] Originally by: Fio'el Testament Edited by: Fio''el Testament on 30/05/2006 17:49:44 I might mess the scientific terms caz of french, but stick with me and correct me as needed :p I'm gonna talk a little about weapon types. Everything is energy. Kinetic penetrate because when you take their energy and apply it to a surface, they have enough force to penetrate. Thermal is, as someone pointed out very well, the movement of atoms. Absolute zero is no movement; plasma is the happy dance. Explosives are simply very fast expanding clouds of heat. And then you have the electromagnetic domain. E = hf = hc/l What that means is that photons have energy. X rays are photons with a crazy frequency. Radio are photons with much less energy. Theoritically, Radio crystals shouldn't do anything... radios don't even harm us humans (or at least we like to think so) :\| Where it gets interesting is under the visible light spectrum. Ultraviolet, Xrays and Gamma radiation have enormous energy. For example, if you put methane and chlorine and light up with UV light, it will do a chemical reaction resulting in CCl4! The UV has the energy to mess up the chlorine and cause a reaction. The electromagnetic spectrum needs NO mass to travel, that's what makes it so good. It is useless by itself, it's its interaction with matter that makes it dangerous! Gamma radiation can go right through 30 cm of lead, not that's what I call penetrating power! Any photon with enough energy will compeltely fry electronics, throwing electrons everwhere causing an electric current that can be strong enough to destroy the electronics! (photoelectric effect) Enough energy can ionize matter, and see, it gets kind of unstable when it'S jsut free nuclides and electrons... You could literally turn a ship into plasma! Now, the most interesting part of photons are lasers. Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. That's one badass name! So it's amplified light with only one wavelength that's a result of radiation. They are basically beams of energy. Now here's an interesting thing : Nuclear fusion requires energy. You guessed it, scientists HAVE performed nuclear fusion using lasers. Now, what happens if you cause nuclear fusion on your opponent's ship? You guessed it, it goes boom. So lasers fry electrical components (EM), excite the molecules (thermal), and can create nuclear fusion (explosion) resulting in very fast debris (kinetic). QED Edit: This just in from the Discover I read : Cosmic rays = High energy photons with mass and energy = photonic bullets that actually leave a trail in one's brain!!! :\| One astronaut exposed had multiple "bullet" trajectories in his brain because of those. Now imagine condensing those rays... ouch! Thank you for posting a noob simple demonstration maybe now they'll understand that lasers can do all types of damage. And that they can do it better then most weapon systems. Ok Tuxford u heard now pls pls pls give Amarr the love it needs and ....
boost lasers	Posted - 2006.05.30 18:34:00 - [179] Originally by: Fio'el Testament Kinetic penetrate because when you take their energy and apply it to a surface, they have enough force to penetrate. Thermal is, as someone pointed out very well, the movement of atoms. Absolute zero is no movement; plasma is the happy dance. Explosives are simply very fast expanding clouds of heat. Kinetic and thermal energy are pretty much the same thing. Temperature is just a measure of average kinetic energy (atomic movement). Explosives are just a more complicated kinetic reaction but essentially it's all the same. ____________________________________________________ __
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.05.30 18:34:00 - [180] Originally by: Aramendel Well, Explosions are not exactly expanding clouds of heats, but essentially preasure waves. It's similar, but not exactly the same. or perhaps I am just a nitpick there. And, yes, Lasers can fry electronics, but thats kinda different to it damaging/destroying armor and hull as it does right now. Dude convo me ingame and i'll explain all u need to know. For now stop posting against Amarr.



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