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Belphegor I	Posted - 2006.06.01 08:34:00 - [211] Edited by: Belphegor I on 01/06/2006 08:35:22 Well, if you think explosive damage will fit the problem, you're wrong, people most likely tanked explosive than anything. So the problem wont be fix. Amarr need a boost but have to be a complete role playing boost, not only that little thing. PS. Ops, sorry, accidentally using this unused char within account. It's me Apolyon I.
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.01 10:19:00 - [212] Originally by: Belphegor I Edited by: Belphegor I on 01/06/2006 08:35:22 Well, if you think explosive damage will fit the problem, you're wrong, people most likely tanked explosive than anything. So the problem wont be fix. Amarr need a boost but have to be a complete role playing boost, not only that little thing. PS. Ops, sorry, accidentally using this unused char within account. It's me Apolyon I. Agreed, EM and Ther damage on Amarr is fine to me. We need a role upgrade on Amarr ships. Give Apocalype some proper use in combat. Give Amarr some love.
Kitty O'Shay	Posted - 2006.06.01 10:20:00 - [213] I think changing the EM/thermal damage ratio to be more thermal heavy would solve most of the problems. -- Change the EM/thermal ratio on laser crystals!
Frools	Posted - 2006.06.01 10:35:00 - [214] Originally by: Apolyon I I think the Omen and Maller are fine atm, Maller still one of the best cruiser inagme, there's no point to make them overpower. not really imo, omen and maller both need more grid, quite a lot more grid i think we can all agree that the maller is supposed to be a tanking ship given that is it wrong that you should be able to fit a dual rep tank on it and fit the lowest tier medium guns? as it is even using accomodation reps you run out of grid to fill the last highslot another 150 ish grid would let you fill all your slots the damage output is still pathetic but the tank is nice would it be overpowered for the maller to be able to fit: 4x focused pulse II 1x med nos med cap booster web scram 2x accomodation reps 3x energized adaptive nanos 1x something, small plate, heatsink, whatever omen, damage ship right? needs more grid again or perhaps a reduction in grid for heavy pulses would it be overpowered for the omen to be able to fit 4x heavy pulse II 1x med nos ab/web/scram 3 hs 400mm plate small rep 5x light drones decent damage output (still nowhere near as much as a blasterax) and no tank at all, i would love to be able to fit this on my omen as it is you cant fit a heavy pulse setup without an rcu, which leaves you with no rep or no armour geddon could do with a little bit more cpu apoc, i dont really know, i dont fly it so im not going to suggest any improvements
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.01 11:00:00 - [215] Edited by: Godar Marak on 01/06/2006 11:01:24 From E-on#2 Quote: Top 10 most popular cruisers 1 Thorax 2 Osprey 3 Caracal 4 blackbird 5 Moa 6 Rupture 7 Maller 8 Vexor 9 Exequror 10 Omen 7th and 10th place. I wonder why
kessah	Posted - 2006.06.01 11:02:00 - [216] explosive crystals mmmmmm it just doesnt feel right. Ive personally no problem with the damage amarr do and i catogarise myself as "fly" amarr. I think if anything they just need there minimum range decreased so they can hit closer targets with pulse. It really sucks how i cant really hit a megaT when it in his blaster range. Ive tested this quite extensivly on sisi and i kinda got dismissed by most of the eve comm. Amarr do need summin i just think it should be better tracking or summin along those lines. -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur
kessah	Posted - 2006.06.01 11:06:00 - [217] Malken your asking wrong dev, u need to be pleading with Oveur he's the Amarr junkie! he'll shake things up so Amarr ships are king once again! -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur
Heiken Wimast	Posted - 2006.06.01 11:27:00 - [218] In future, What should i expect? Lasers # Increased Capacitor need by 15% # Increased cpu need by 10% # Increased powergrid need by 10% on all heavy beam lasers As you see many laser, amarr ship and "DAMAGE CRYSTAL" (is it really damage crystal or what ?) users mentioned their ideas. So all these people are lying? Whining for nothing? Is that the way "i should go for another race weapons and mabe ships" ? Really dunno, what should i do? Ok im gonna sit and accept my desperate "FATE" !
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.01 12:32:00 - [219] Originally by: kessah Malken your asking wrong dev, u need to be pleading with Oveur he's the Amarr junkie! he'll shake things up so Amarr ships are king once again! ?????? Well, thanks for the free bump anyway.
Malken	Posted - 2006.06.01 12:42:00 - [220] Originally by: kessah Malken your asking wrong dev, u need to be pleading with Oveur he's the Amarr junkie! he'll shake things up so Amarr ships are king once again! as far as i know Tuxford is the one in charge of the "BALANCING" or so i have been led to believe anyway. i think its horrible that they let something like this bad balance just drift by them without even a single recognition that they will atleast look at it in the close future(i.e not in 6months time.) just the thought of Amarr being forced to use slave weapons to do more dmg and to be able to tank better is a outrage imho and a testament to what the one who is doing the balancing really are playing on his private account. fact still remains that the devs havent recognized this grave inaccuracy of imbalance, infact they made gallente able to tank better while doing more dmg and they still havent done anything to sort out the wtfpwn mobile called the dominix. now gallente have 2 great shortgame battleships, Amarr got none that can compete at close range in a real game enviroment. being able to do about equal dmg doesnt matter if one ship can suck up all that dmg and deal equal if not better dmg back at the same time while you cannot tank equally good. Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN

Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.01 13:24:00 - [221] bump
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.01 13:38:00 - [222] Originally by: Rockbox Today I fitted out a Completely T2 Maller with Projectiles (220mm AC) it pwned and I hade a nice 1600mm plated tank Amarr the only race where you spec another races guns to use the ships better this is because -10% laser cap reduction bonus means NOTHING its just a wasted bonus. lasers should have more base damage since they waste a bonus on every ship
Rina Shanu	Posted - 2006.06.01 15:39:00 - [223] yes yes yes we need some love. it has to be sensible though. better thin to do is work the ratios a little imho RECRUITING
Brother Tycho	Posted - 2006.06.01 15:54:00 - [224] heres how i would fix amarr take out the cap use bonus add a cap use on repair bonus, raise laser dmg alot and reduce rate of fire alot. laser dps stays the same but cap use drops and we can do away with the wasted bonus slot a reduction to cap use on repair activation or a reduction in repair duration would be better. good tanking and sloooow fireing big dmg guns would rock hard. -------------[B«+tHd« T¦¦H+]------------- åå Spreading the good word since beta åå
Malken	Posted - 2006.06.01 15:54:00 - [225] Originally by: Rina Shanu yes yes yes we need some love. it has to be sensible though. better thin to do is work the ratios a little imho imho the cap use on the guns need to start coming down to sensible levels and not waste a ship bonus. that would be a start. Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.06.01 17:13:00 - [226] Bump for the cause Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥
Nyxus	Posted - 2006.06.01 17:51:00 - [227] Edited by: Nyxus on 01/06/2006 17:52:31 Originally by: Sniser this is because -10% laser cap reduction bonus means NOTHING its just a wasted bonus. lasers should have more base damage since they waste a bonus on every ship This is absolutely incorrect. The -10% laser cap reduction is the ONLY thing that allows lasers to function, especially large ones. I believe Meridius crunched the numbers and showed that 8 Tachys without the bonus uses the same cap as 2 LAR. That is not inconsiderable. Getting rid of the capacitor bonus on the Apoc would be a real step in the right direction. If the Apoc MUST be a tanking ship then give it a 7.5% bonus to Armor resists or a bonus to Armor amount so that it has a built in equivalent to 2 or 3 1600 plates. That would be fairly balanced considering that it's damage output is so poor. I think 7.5% per level is a requirement for armor resists as the Maller and Prophecy show that 5% just isn't enough. Like the Brutix, 5% just let you die while 7.5% provides enough to make a noticeable difference. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Ganandorf	Posted - 2006.06.01 19:09:00 - [228] The 10% per lvl reduction in cap needs IS a useless bonus since it's a bonus you need to use your racial weapons which is just absurd. It'd be the same like giving siege launchers 100 CPU a pop and putting a ''10% reduction in siege launcher CPU needs per level'' bonus on the raven
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.01 20:03:00 - [229] Edited by: Godar Marak on 01/06/2006 20:03:16 Instead of the changes they made to the blasters projectiles, they should have removed a damage bonus on the ships and replaced them with -10% reduction in blaster cap use.
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.02 00:29:00 - [230] Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 01/06/2006 17:52:31 Originally by: Sniser this is because -10% laser cap reduction bonus means NOTHING its just a wasted bonus. lasers should have more base damage since they waste a bonus on every ship This is absolutely incorrect. The -10% laser cap reduction is the ONLY thing that allows lasers to function, especially large ones. I believe Meridius crunched the numbers and showed that 8 Tachys without the bonus uses the same cap as 2 LAR. That is not inconsiderable. Getting rid of the capacitor bonus on the Apoc would be a real step in the right direction. If the Apoc MUST be a tanking ship then give it a 7.5% bonus to Armor resists or a bonus to Armor amount so that it has a built in equivalent to 2 or 3 1600 plates. That would be fairly balanced considering that it's damage output is so poor. I think 7.5% per level is a requirement for armor resists as the Maller and Prophecy show that 5% just isn't enough. Like the Brutix, 5% just let you die while 7.5% provides enough to make a noticeable difference. Nyxus maybe apoc need change his bonus from cap to armor but that doesnt fix the problem apoc still will be better with projectiles than megabeams. -10% cap reduction is a wasted bonus, so if it enable to use such weapons they need have a bonus on them already. for example: if we make blaster and railgun use the same cap as laser and we give the -10% cap reduction on those ships mega would have only 25% dmg hybrids and -10% cap red also domi would have only -10% cap red also dmg/armor for drones.. that doesnt sound fair right? for amarr doesnt sound fair too :)

Malken	Posted - 2006.06.02 04:13:00 - [231] stop this nerfing talk of other ships, only one that needs a slapping is how the domi works and that can possibly be done with a fix to ECM. lets compare how ship bonuses work between the Apoc and another tier2 BS the Apoc Quote: Special Ability: 10% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor use and 5% maximum Capacitor Capacity per level. thats 2 bonuses right. now the Mega Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level. thats also 2 bonuses wich one got useful bonuses and not one that is just put on there since the old times when tachyons were silly ppl used them on everything. fix cap use more inline with what other races have on their guns and give Amarr a working bonus to their ships. be it whatever aslong as it makes the Apoc shine in some way as it should. also dmg output on crystals or make explosive crystals with thermal and explosive dmg on them available. as i said before i dont want much extra dmg i just want to be able to do a somewhat varied dmg since EM/Thermal combo is the most resisted dmg on average and for minmatar that is the highset ones. so shooting the minmatar HAC's with Amarr weapons is pretty much fruitless at times since they got those resists up over the 90's or make the Amarr ships get the resists that minmatar can do to up over 90's, but that wouldnt work now would it. btw.. still no word from the powers that be, amazing isnt it? Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
madaluap	Posted - 2006.06.02 04:30:00 - [232] Edited by: madaluap on 02/06/2006 04:35:22 Originally by: Sniser this is because -10% laser cap reduction bonus means NOTHING its just a wasted bonus. lasers should have more base damage since they waste a bonus on every ship This is absolutely incorrect. The -10% laser cap reduction is the ONLY thing that allows lasers to function, especially large ones. I believe Meridius crunched the numbers and showed that 8 Tachys without the bonus uses the same cap as 2 LAR. That is not inconsiderable. Getting rid of the capacitor bonus on the Apoc would be a real step in the right direction. If the Apoc MUST be a tanking ship then give it a 7.5% bonus to Armor resists or a bonus to Armor amount so that it has a built in equivalent to 2 or 3 1600 plates. That would be fairly balanced considering that it's damage output is so poor. I think 7.5% per level is a requirement for armor resists as the Maller and Prophecy show that 5% just isn't enough. Like the Brutix, 5% just let you die while 7.5% provides enough to make a noticeable difference. Nyxus maybe apoc need change his bonus from cap to armor but that doesnt fix the problem apoc still will be better with projectiles than megabeams. -10% cap reduction is a wasted bonus, so if it enable to use such weapons they need have a bonus on them already. for example: if we make blaster and railgun use the same cap as laser and we give the -10% cap reduction on those ships mega would have only 25% dmg hybrids and -10% cap red also domi would have only -10% cap red also dmg/armor for drones.. that doesnt sound fair right? for amarr doesnt sound fair too :) Why dont the ammar get it themselves? I am gallente, i get a damagebonus and we use hybrid guns. 1.00 dmgmod * 1.25dmgbonus = 1.25 Damage now ammar: I am ammar, i have a build-in damagemod and thus i get a capreduction, because i fire PURE energy. 1.25 dmgmod = 1.25 dmg, but with capreduction They dev's just thought it was cool that minmatar had rof and dmgbonus, so they only did good damage on minmatar ships. They also gave gallente a damagemod so they were only usefull on ships with damagebonus. The ammar got a build-in, BUILD-IN whats that? BUILD-IN damagemod and a capreduction, to make sure they got fitted on ammar ship they gave them high capusage and big PG usage. Ok ammar get there damagemod reduced by 25% and capusage reduced by 50%, and they get a +25% damagemod on the ship. Congratulations retards, now you have exactly the same bonusses as the tempest for the armageddon and the apoc is nearly a megathron, but than with loads of cap, more optimal, more tankability, easier fitting specs and relativly better tracking. I just find it retarded that before the changes even strike ammar whine. cant you wait and test atleast 6 months after the patch. Whining istn the i-win button, the fact dev's listen (for gallente this took 2 years) is just great. Especially all these stupid calculations i saw about people trying to "prove" that railguns do more damage on a apoc than tachyon... _________________________________________________
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.06.02 04:56:00 - [233] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 02/06/2006 04:35:22 Getting rid of the capacitor bonus on the Apoc would be a real step in the right direction. If the Apoc MUST be a tanking ship then give it a 7.5% bonus to Armor resists or a bonus to Armor amount so that it has a built in equivalent to 2 or 3 1600 plates. That would be fairly balanced considering that it's damage output is so poor. Listen French boy. It's more then clear u never fired the tachs of an Apoc and see how your cap drys faster the u can say fly. The cap bonus it's the only thing that alows the Apoc 2 use it's guns and tank. Else we woud need NOS just 2 keep all the guns runing. And if u think i'm wrong.Get abord a geddon fill it whit tachs and open fire now and tell me how many BS can u kill whidout taking a recharge break or using nos. And i mean week rat BS. Do this and then post for now keep your big moth shut - if u can.
Kitty O'Shay	Posted - 2006.06.02 05:08:00 - [234] To shamelessly quote myself: Originally by: Kitty O'Shay I see another reason for the current cap use of lasers (and the ship bonus for it) was to keep lasers off other racial ship. It's before my time, but I've seen references to "Tachys on everything." The nerfing of lasers was a result of this, correct? So Amarr ships paid for the overpoweredness of lasers with the second bonus being made to allow the massive cap use and still function. Maybe it's time to look into this? So... Halve laser cap use, make multifrequency have a slight (5%) cap penalty, and give the ships a proper damage bonus. (The Omen/Geddon/etc with a ROF bonus could get a tracking bonus, to go with the ROF.) Those changes plus a tweak of the Gamma, Ultraviolet, and Radio crystal em/thermal ratio would go a long ways towards improving Amarr ship damage. -- Change the EM/thermal ratio on laser crystals!
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.02 06:03:00 - [235] Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 01/06/2006 17:52:31 The -10% laser cap reduction is the ONLY thing that allows lasers to function, especially large ones. I believe Meridius crunched the numbers and showed that 8 Tachys without the bonus uses the same cap as 2 LAR. That is not inconsiderable. Getting rid of the capacitor bonus on the Apoc would be a real step in the right direction. If the Apoc MUST be a tanking ship then give it a 7.5% bonus to Armor resists or a bonus to Armor amount so that it has a built in equivalent to 2 or 3 1600 plates. That would be fairly balanced considering that it's damage output is so poor. I think 7.5% per level is a requirement for armor resists as the Maller and Prophecy show that 5% just isn't enough. Like the Brutix, 5% just let you die while 7.5% provides enough to make a noticeable difference. Nyxus Improve laser damage by 10%. Change rof bonuses from Omen and geddon to damage bonuses. Keep them in reasonable DPS and also reserve a bit of cap for them. Inscrease geddon CPU/Grid/cap to 480/17000/4500, this make it slightly easier to fit and can fire a bit longer. Change the Apoc cap bonus to 5% or 7.5% armor resistants, I'm fine with both, at least we can see a tanker there and together with the laser damage inscrease, a bit of fire power for it. Inscrease CPU/Grid/Cap to 520/22000/5200 and add a low power slot for Apoc. We need some CPU to fit something, remember that even tach having lower CPU than 425mm for example, but we need 8 guns on it and not 7. Grid inscrease is essential, why Apoc cant fit full rack of Tachs without RCU II, 8 Tachs II with Advanced Weapons Upgrade still need 29700 grid and the total power output only still at 27500, still short of grid but at least we can do something there, but it is totally ridiculous as now we have only 24375 grid and need 2 RCU II to properly fit it with 8 Tachs and a large rep, not to mention that right now we cant even fit enough 8 Mega beams and a large rep without one RCU. And Amarr ships do need cap as their guns are thirst for cap. ------------------ Trying to quit smoking. Drug time. ------------------
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 06:49:00 - [236] Edited by: Godar Marak on 02/06/2006 06:49:15 Originally by: Malken btw.. still no word from the powers that be, amazing isnt it? I suspect they are still in phaze one......scratching their heads while finally coming to the conclusion that we are right.
Malken	Posted - 2006.06.02 07:35:00 - [237] Originally by: MacQueen Originally by: Nyxus Edited by: Nyxus on 01/06/2006 17:52:31 The -10% laser cap reduction is the ONLY thing that allows lasers to function, especially large ones. I believe Meridius crunched the numbers and showed that 8 Tachys without the bonus uses the same cap as 2 LAR. That is not inconsiderable. Getting rid of the capacitor bonus on the Apoc would be a real step in the right direction. If the Apoc MUST be a tanking ship then give it a 7.5% bonus to Armor resists or a bonus to Armor amount so that it has a built in equivalent to 2 or 3 1600 plates. That would be fairly balanced considering that it's damage output is so poor. I think 7.5% per level is a requirement for armor resists as the Maller and Prophecy show that 5% just isn't enough. Like the Brutix, 5% just let you die while 7.5% provides enough to make a noticeable difference. Nyxus Improve laser damage by 10%. Change rof bonuses from Omen and geddon to damage bonuses. Keep them in reasonable DPS and also reserve a bit of cap for them. Inscrease geddon CPU/Grid/cap to 480/17000/4500, this make it slightly easier to fit and can fire a bit longer. Change the Apoc cap bonus to 5% or 7.5% armor resistants, I'm fine with both, at least we can see a tanker there and together with the laser damage inscrease, a bit of fire power for it. Inscrease CPU/Grid/Cap to 520/22000/5200 and add a low power slot for Apoc. We need some CPU to fit something, remember that even tach having lower CPU than 425mm for example, but we need 8 guns on it and not 7. Grid inscrease is essential, why Apoc cant fit full rack of Tachs without RCU II, 8 Tachs II with Advanced Weapons Upgrade still need 29700 grid and the total power output only still at 27500, still short of grid but at least we can do something there, but it is totally ridiculous as now we have only 24375 grid and need 2 RCU II to properly fit it with 8 Tachs and a large rep, not to mention that right now we cant even fit enough 8 Mega beams and a large rep without one RCU. And Amarr ships do need cap as their guns are thirst for cap. the biggest problem for being able to tank and do dmg at the same time is the thirst of the guns. minmatars dont have this problem, caldari dont have this problem and gallente dont have this problem. we who fly amarr ships can do one or the other somewhat decent but if we do both at the same time like anyone else do we are inferior at both due to running out of cap so fast that it is silly. and the dmg output isnt anywhere near what the other races Tier2 BS can do. and dont start screaming about the geddon, it got nerfed to stoneage in dmg output and cant tank anywhere near what you can do on a domi and the domi can still push out good dmg at the same time. geddon was good for dmg before the stacking nerf and it was the thing that made it usable but it didnt have a tank to do that damage then. a geddon today is a neutered dmg dealer that still cant tank. fix cap use on amarr guns and change emphasis to thermal dmg on crystals/relese explosive crystals. Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.06.02 08:32:00 - [238] stop thinking as if Rail dont use cap... it cost us 30 cap a shot so 210 cap a volley.. (control burst 5 T2 weapon T2 ammo for dmg) and it cost you more 35 cap a shot 285 a volley ... but did u remind having far more cap and dont using mwd. If u cant fit something u want in a ship thats ur fitting is wrong change it do a bit of thinking. Mega is one of the worst ship to fit. This make me think BS should be hard to fit so we dont see evry time the same fitting and dont just "its a mega stay outside 15km and u safe use 20km scrambler" or something like that (BTW dual 250rail mega is scray ^^)
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.02 09:00:00 - [239] Originally by: Nadec Ascand stop thinking as if Rail dont use cap... it cost us 30 cap a shot so 210 cap a volley.. (control burst 5 T2 weapon T2 ammo for dmg) and it cost you more 35 cap a shot 285 a volley ... but did u remind having far more cap and dont using mwd. If u cant fit something u want in a ship thats ur fitting is wrong change it do a bit of thinking. Mega is one of the worst ship to fit. This make me think BS should be hard to fit so we dont see evry time the same fitting and dont just "its a mega stay outside 15km and u safe use 20km scrambler" or something like that (BTW dual 250rail mega is scray ^^) Assuming of Electornic level 5, Engineering level 5, Weapons Upgrade 5, no Advance weapon Upgrade. Using basic compare on snipping set up: Megathron: 7x 425mm Railgun II Total CPU output: 687.50 TF Total powergrid output: 19375 MW Total CPU need for guns: 404.25 TF Total Grid need for guns: 18375 MW Apocalyse: 8 Tachyon Beam Laser II Total CPU output: 625 TF Total Powergrid output: 24375 MW Total CPU need for guns: 378 TF Total Grid need for guns: 33000 MW Conclusion: after fitting guns Megathron have: 283.25 TF CPU and 1000 MW grid remaining for other mods Apocalyse have : 247 tf CPU remaining and ...8625 MW SHORT of grid. Now tell me what's the hardest. ------------------ Trying to quit smoking. Drug time. ------------------
Brazero	Posted - 2006.06.02 09:02:00 - [240] There is only one Amarr ship worth flying atm, and that ship isn't for all and everyone to have. The rest is crap, they all need more grid, some need more cpu, and all weapons needs a major overhaul. It's simple as that. And alot of you ppl should stop all this number crunching, just train the skills needed and slap on your setup. ** the numbers, they don't mean **.



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