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Forsch	Posted - 2006.05.28 17:27:00 - [31] Originally by: Deathbarrage least CCP can do is switch dmg to 2/3 thermal and 1/3 EM instead of 1/3 thermal and 2/3 EM I always wante dthe crystals not to differ in only their range and amount of damage but also to offer different ratios of EM and Thermal. A crystal with vastly more EM might be better than one doing just thermal in certain situations. Amarr ships can switch their crystals quick, great. But it would be alot cooler to have a reason for a switch, other than different optimals, which are only really useable on battleships (for instance multifrequency range compared to ultraviolet is just too small to be worth changing in mid fight. That is on small and medium ones. By the time you finished switching you could already switch o the next set.) Forsch Defender of the empire More love for side factions!
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.05.28 17:45:00 - [32] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Lasers are light which is one of the purest form of energy. Shooting very high amounts of energy to anything that's made of atoms will cause either neutrons or electrons to start shifting in those atoms and thus the making the atoms react with each other in one form or another. There's couple of possible reactions, one is fusion of two or more atoms which makes the atoms combine to something totally different or the electrons and lose atoms may turn into ionized cloud in a rapid fashion thus causing an "explosion" of sorts, more accurately a gazillion atomic explosions. Totally unrelated, the body heat which human body creates is caused by constant combustion in our cells. It's just so small scaled that we don't see it but chemically we all are constantly exploding Er.. no, thats Humbug, pseudo-science. All a laser is doing is heating stuff up, resulting in the target melting or (if the energy is sufficient) vaporising. This does not create any explosive (or EM, for that matter) force per se. And it certainly does not create anything remotely similar to an atomic explosion. The only thing which could create an explosive effect would be an ultra-high energy burst of a laser which would vaporise a small amount of armor instantly. Which would create a vapor explosion. Volume of anything in vapor form >>> volume of anything in solid form, so the vapor has to expand, which could result im it wrecking nearby armor by an explosive effect. The problem here is that in order to do this the force by the light preasure of the laser has to be higher than the resistance of the armor, otherwise the vapor would just escape through he hole being made by the laser.
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2006.05.28 17:58:00 - [33] Originally by: Gronsak perhaps but first all t2 ammo that does more damage than the old t2 high dmg ammo needs to be removed t2 ammo should help your ship be more defensive not offensive! Why would ammo, which is by definition a purely offensive item, make your ship more offensive? I dont remember anyone ever blocking a bullet shot with another bullet. _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space! Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
Asurix	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Foomanshoe Originally by: Gronsak perhaps but first all t2 ammo that does more damage than the old t2 high dmg ammo needs to be removed t2 ammo should help your ship be more defensive not offensive! Why would ammo, which is by definition a purely offensive item, make your ship more offensive? I dont remember anyone ever blocking a bullet shot with another bullet. Steven Seagal ftw
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.05.28 19:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Foomanshoe Why would ammo, which is by definition a purely offensive item, make your ship more offensive? Because it is an offensive icon of cource! I assume the 2nd "offensive" should be "defensive"?
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.05.28 19:49:00 - [36] Signed. Simple solution: Switch crystal EM damage for THERMAL and THERMAL for EM. ~~Same damage on shields, more damage on armour (not tanked targets). Having EM as primary is pure bolox. They called them HEAT Sinks for a reason Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
hylleX	Posted - 2006.05.28 19:52:00 - [37] Originally by: Tassi EDIT: I think amarr got left behind for quite some time because we have not enough whiners/Warriors. So true actually ---------------------------------------------------------
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.05.28 20:02:00 - [38] Originally by: hylleX Originally by: Tassi EDIT: I think amarr got left behind for quite some time because we have not enough whiners/Warriors. So true actually http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=344414 ^ Game Development Forum Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Frools	Posted - 2006.05.28 20:14:00 - [39] i have the solution to amarr special racial bonus for all amarr ships: no stacking penalty on heat sinks
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.05.28 20:24:00 - [40] Na, just make lasers use no energy and give the amarr ships a bonus for ROF or damage instead capacitator use. Hey, it worked for the minnies!
Taka	Posted - 2006.05.28 20:33:00 - [41] I dont know if this has been mention but why the hell does Radio only Do EM damage??? -------------------- My Sig Got Podded!! Removed second image, please limit your signature images to one - Petwraith
Nira Li	Posted - 2006.05.28 21:25:00 - [42] Why can't I fit a doomsday weapon on my geddon?!!!?!?! Stupid game You Will Cry My Name Funny Guys
Ather Ialeas	Posted - 2006.05.28 21:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Taka I dont know if this has been mention but why the hell does Radio only Do EM damage??? So you can snipe someone's shields? Meh, I use Microwave for long range anyway... ________________________________________________ My signature exploded :/
Draconis	Posted - 2006.05.28 22:32:00 - [44] Alright I'll throw my two cookies in here. I've flown Amarr since beta, seen it in it's glory when Apocs had twice the HP of all BSes and could do 10k damage a volley with 4 Tachyons. Of course that drew one hell of a nerf from the devs as it should. When Ravens used Tachyons you knew Amarr were overpowered. But now with all these changes coming about I'd like to see the Amarr get up to parr. They took away everything so people would stop playing Amarr and try the other races. But haven't yet given us the shinies back. Now while I don't expect the game to turn over and hand me a shiney uber ship like the old Cavalry Raven, but when CCP first gave out descriptions for the ships, the Gallente were supposed to be long range turret ships that would sit in the distance and support their drones with Hybrid fire. The Amarr were of course the close range ships that had large amounts of armour that would allow them to sustain the damage until they could get close at which point they would be something truely to be feared. Now we all know that's changed amazingly over the past 3 years. Gallente have changed up to be the most dominant in roles like Sniping (Yes the Megathroni s better than the Tempest in this roll, I know I can fly both) and in close range the only way a Blasterthron was to be really taken down in close combat was being able to out live the major cap use of blasters. now with the changes the Gallente with both ships have taken the Close range role as well. So with that being said there's really no place for our Amarrian ships to take a role. The Amarrian ships are the only ships in the game that technically have only one bonus in a combat role. They give up most of their first ship bonuses to Capacitor reduction on their guns. Which mean we rarely in turn can muster up alot of damage unless we sacrifice all manners of a tank for damage output modules. This puts us below ships like the Megathron which can pull more damage close range as well as a successful tank that allows them to close distance or just wether the storm. I don't honestly want CCP to make Amarr ships better than the rest. I would like them to find a role for all teh ships and stick to it. The Punisher, Maller and Apocalypse were to be teh true ships to fear when they engaged at close range. Now they've been surpassed by the Incursus, Thorax, Dominix and Megathron. Strangely 3 out of those 4 ships can also change to a long range role and still be more effective than that of an Amarrian ship all while maintaining some kind of defense. The Empire was described to use strength in numbers. Unfortunately CCP is following that making it so you require two Amarrian ships to bring down one ship of any other race. Doesn't make sense in a game..
Wheya	Posted - 2006.05.28 23:59:00 - [45] The boost to blasters was needed very badly. The effect of no cap use on projectile weapons remains to be seen. It sure doesnt make a huge difference to the previous state of cap use if you only look at cap usage. Being able to shoot without cap at all enables you to fully utilise neutralizers, though. Against public opinion amarrian ships are not the cap monsters after you subtract the cap used by lasers. What happened lately? I say energized nanoplatings with armor compensation skills changed a lot. In the past it was very common to use 3 active hardeners for armor tanking - explosive, kinetic and thermal. Today nanoplatings are a common sight which also add more resistance to em.
Aemilus Brutus	Posted - 2006.05.29 00:34:00 - [46] I fly Amarr and Caldari (because I pretty much have to). I posted this in the Cruiser post in the ship forum, it seems to fit better here. Sorry about the length. I think the overall problem is that the other 3 factions have had the problems with their ships slowly but surely worked out. The Amarr weren't really that broken at the time so no one looked at them and people on the forums bashed any post about their balance. Now with the fixes in place for the other factions, the overall hp boost, the Amarr just haven't kept up. Their base damage and damage types on lasers never kept up with the improvements to tanking and improvements to the other factions fitting problems. What you have now is the other factions now have ships that do more damage (taking in the cap use and damage type problems that Amarr have) with no cap or little cap use and they can fit a nice tank too. There are several ships now that work well at close and long ranges. That leaves the Amarr with slightly better tanking, with guns that eat the cap that helps keep that tanking edge and ships that can not do decent damage while fitting a good tank (not the best tank, but a good one). These problems really shows up in cruisers, and with the Apoc and Geddon. What can be done? One or more of the following-- 1. Improve Amarr tanks across the board to make up for the tank and damage improvements in the other factions. The Amarr were balanced before the changes, how could they stay balanced after? Cruisers should be able to use medium guns without ruining their tank! The Gallente, Caldari, and Minnie can do it, why should the Amarr be left out? 2. For the cruisers and frigates you could improve the fittings, either by reducing the requirements for medium and to a lesser extent small lasers and gear or improving the ships' grid and cpu where needed. The Maller should be able to fit medium lasers and a decent (or great) tank, just like the other factions. Don't make it the damage king, but make the damage good enough that it has a fair chance of killing the other cruisers before it's somewhat better tank breaks against their much better damage. 3. Improve laser damage - I am sick of hearing the base damage arguement! Ships got an HP boost, they can now also fit better tanks with better resists. The base damage advantage has been lost. Now lasers eat much much more cap than their counterparts, it used to be the Amarr could tank the damage and slowly wear down enemies, now doing damage wears down the cap for their tanks, while the enemy can tank the damage better and inflict more damage than before. 4. Em and Thermal Damage isn't what it use to be! Better tanks on enemy ships and the ability to better improve all resistances at the same time have put a major hurting on the damage types done by lasers. Perhaps increase their damage some more, or their thermal damages with the mid to low range crystals. If you keep the improvements at mid and low ranges you will not throw off the fleet combat balance I keep reading about (which may not be as balanced as it once was with the recent changes). --- Or give them a crystal with range just a little over multifrequency that does explosive or kinetic damage.... there are 2 factions in the game now that can select their damage type with little or no cap use, and gallente have better drone bays that they can use to help with another damage type and blasters got some much needed loving.
Malken	Posted - 2006.05.29 01:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Wheya The boost to blasters was needed very badly. The effect of no cap use on projectile weapons remains to be seen. It sure doesnt make a huge difference to the previous state of cap use if you only look at cap usage. Being able to shoot without cap at all enables you to fully utilise neutralizers, though. Against public opinion amarrian ships are not the cap monsters after you subtract the cap used by lasers. What happened lately? I say energized nanoplatings with armor compensation skills changed a lot. In the past it was very common to use 3 active hardeners for armor tanking - explosive, kinetic and thermal. Today nanoplatings are a common sight which also add more resistance to em. im not saying that the boost to blaster wasnt needed, what i am saying is that with all the different boosts for everyone else so they can do BOTH dmg and tank at the same time has left Amarr behind not being able to compete in either tank or dmg. and amarr definetly cant do both at the same time like gallente and caldari can. heck even a apoc with 800mm projectiles outdamages and outtanks a Apoc with megapulses and does more dmg types, doesnt that say to you that something is very very wrong with the balancing here? Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.05.29 01:45:00 - [48] Originally by: Malken Originally by: Wheya heck even a apoc with 800mm projectiles outdamages a Apoc with megapulses wtf, no.
Nemain	Posted - 2006.05.29 02:11:00 - [49] Amarr definetly need somthing done if not an explosive crystal. ALL the other races can do all damage types to some extent, and that includes galante as most of their ships have decent size drone bays. Of all the races, amarr have the least options to modify damage types due to the unimaginative design. All other races can field decent ew, the amarr can only really make a showing on that front with a few specialised ships. Galante Hybrids, Drones, ew and armour tanking Minmattar Projectiles, missiles, ew, drones and armour and shield tanking Caldari Missiles, Hybrids, ew and shield tanking Amarr Energy weapons, and armour tanking Amarr are sorely lacking in variety compared to other races (minmattar could be said to be the exact opposite, overly unspecialised in some cases). An explosive crystal would go some way to helping for a start but amarr need an entire rethink and a secondary weapon system made available. Drones would be a good choice as they allow choice of daage type and ew, but also don't cause the actual ships to falter from the low tech design doctrine. If not make them the best at what they do as they are more specialised in guns and armour tanks than any other race. When gally ships have more turrets than amarr equivilents it makes me cringe, even tho I can fly either just as well (brutix and prophecy spring to mind).
Dopefish	Posted - 2006.05.29 02:32:00 - [50] I remember the mega pulse 1 having an optimal of 24km ( 30km on modulated ) back when gankageddon was in its prime...this was nerfed down to 20km ( 24km ). How about unnerfing that now that the geddon isnt the uberpwn ship it used to be.
Malken	Posted - 2006.05.29 02:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Tasty Burger Originally by: Malken Originally by: Wheya heck even a apoc with 800mm projectiles outdamages a Apoc with megapulses wtf, no. wtfyeswai. you can fit 800s and put 2dmg mods on the poc instead of the CPR's that you need to keep amarr guns going and thus do more dmg and use less cap for shooting. wich also makes you tank way better. Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
Exortius Amarrus	Posted - 2006.05.29 02:40:00 - [52] I've been playing EVE for about 6 months and have been flying Amarr ships since day 1. I read through this site before i started my trial, and was impressed with the amarr descriptions. A superior tank with slow but steady damage output. Sort of like a steamroller . However, when i began playing i was disppointed with amarr ships. The most glaring issue was the dismal damage output of lasers as compared to other ships. The cap usage is also disgusting. My corpmates were doing 60dmg when i was doing 10-20. I now fly a mix of caldari and amarr ships, as caldari are simply easier to compete with at lower levels. The argument that explosive crystals are not "scientifically explainable" or rational does not hold water. EVE is a game with spaceships using jumpgates, warp drives, and drones. If these things were explainable today this wouldn't be a game, as we'd all really be doing it . I'm sure CCP could write an EVE chronicle detailing how these new crystals work, and it would be fine by me. I'm all for explosive crystals, but the cap usage of lasers also needs to be adjusted. I would gladly give up half of my shields for a massive boost in cap recharge. Caldari, Minmatar, and Gallente are all respectable in combat, whereas Amarr ships are generally not as feared; especially at lower levels (cruisers, for ex). Just my 2 isks ---------------------------------------- Exortius Amarrus, CEO, High Council, The Clearwater Society <together, we can be stronger>
Malken	Posted - 2006.05.29 08:26:00 - [53] could we get a confirmation from Tux that Amarr is on the "look at" list atleast ? Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
Tassi	Posted - 2006.05.29 09:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Malken could we get a confirmation from Tux that Amarr is on the "look at" list atleast ? As I said Amarr pilots do not whine enough on the forums. Until we fixed our "amarr-lobby" whining on the forums none will listen to us. The only whiner/warrior I can think of is Meridius atm Let's make an amarr-lobby and whine in all the gallente (haha jep, make their ships even more better) and minmatar threads?
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.05.29 09:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Tassi The only whiner/warrior I can think of is Meridius atm Im offended, thanks.
boost lasers	Posted - 2006.05.29 09:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: Tassi The only whiner/warrior I can think of is Meridius atm Im offended, thanks. <3 elve ____________________________________________________ __
Tassi	Posted - 2006.05.29 09:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Im offended, thanks. Hmmm, I saw your crusader with autocannons. Is there more to mention? AUTOCANNONS on the sader
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.05.29 09:20:00 - [58] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 29/05/2006 09:20:59 Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Elve Sorrow Im offended, thanks. Hmmm, I saw your crusader with autocannons. Is there more to mention? AUTOCANNONS on the sader Yea, Autocannons are just too good. 2 Grid each? NERF ATUOCANNONS EDIT: I should be able to spell autocannons correcntly
Tassi	Posted - 2006.05.29 09:23:00 - [59] At least be an amarr and go with our gatlings! You also got 800's on your Apoc I guess?
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.05.29 09:27:00 - [60] Originally by: Tassi At least be an amarr and go with our gatlings! You also got 800's on your Apoc I guess? No, i can only use Small and Medium tech2 Projectiles atm.

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