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MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.02 09:15:00 - [241] Originally by: Brazero There is only one Amarr ship worth flying atm, and that ship isn't for all and everyone to have. The rest is crap, they all need more grid, some need more cpu, and all weapons needs a major overhaul. It's simple as that. And alot of you ppl should stop all this number crunching, just train the skills needed and slap on your setup. ** the numbers, they don't mean **. Well, the fact is we're living in a mathematical world, I cant buy a car with less than the exact number of money that the buyer asked for or the buyer cant give me a car with less than the exact number of wheels that I'm paying for. ------------------ Trying to quit smoking. Drug time. ------------------
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.06.02 09:27:00 - [242] Originally by: Brazero There is only one Amarr ship worth flying atm, and that ship isn't for all and everyone to have. The rest is crap, they all need more grid, some need more cpu, and all weapons needs a major overhaul. It's simple as that. And alot of you ppl should stop all this number crunching, just train the skills needed and slap on your setup. ** the numbers, they don't mean **. The thing i find the more funny with that is that nobody did complain before the gallente boost (why call it gallente when even amarr did get a dmg boost ...) Evrybody did agree megatron needed a patch... And now by a magical way evry amarr wich were alllllllll that great become crap... /me start to wonder if amarr dont whine only coz they dont like fair fight. I promise will only fly cruiser (yeah shuttle are too hard to lock) with no tank to please you.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 09:44:00 - [243] Originally by: Nadec Ascand The thing i find the more funny with that is that nobody did complain before the gallente boost (why call it gallente when even amarr did get a dmg boost ...) Because in the past Amarr has only gotten nerfed, and everyone else has gotten a boost? You----------------------------------------------->the point
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.02 09:52:00 - [244] Originally by: Nadec Ascand Originally by: Brazero There is only one Amarr ship worth flying atm, and that ship isn't for all and everyone to have. The rest is crap, they all need more grid, some need more cpu, and all weapons needs a major overhaul. It's simple as that. And alot of you ppl should stop all this number crunching, just train the skills needed and slap on your setup. ** the numbers, they don't mean **. The thing i find the more funny with that is that nobody did complain before the gallente boost (why call it gallente when even amarr did get a dmg boost ...) Evrybody did agree megatron needed a patch... And now by a magical way evry amarr wich were alllllllll that great become crap... /me start to wonder if amarr dont whine only coz they dont like fair fight. I promise will only fly cruiser (yeah shuttle are too hard to lock) with no tank to please you. Did I said I dont agreed on Gallente boost ?? And pls think back about what's fair fight to you. But you had the point, Amarr will only wtfpwn untanked tech I cruiser when using their BS. ------------------ Trying to quit smoking. Drug time. ------------------
Malken	Posted - 2006.06.02 10:09:00 - [245] Originally by: Nadec Ascand Originally by: Brazero There is only one Amarr ship worth flying atm, and that ship isn't for all and everyone to have. The rest is crap, they all need more grid, some need more cpu, and all weapons needs a major overhaul. It's simple as that. And alot of you ppl should stop all this number crunching, just train the skills needed and slap on your setup. ** the numbers, they don't mean . The thing i find the more funny with that is that nobody did complain before the gallente boost (why call it gallente when even amarr did get a dmg boost ...) Evrybody did agree megatron needed a patch... And now by a magical way evry amarr wich were alllllllll that great become crap... /me start to wonder if amarr dont whine only coz they dont like fair fight. I promise will only fly cruiser (yeah shuttle are too hard to lock) with no tank to please you. yes i did complain about the Dominix before the boost to gallente. wich was a valid complaint if they ever get the thumb out and fixes it. and i never said that the mega didnt need the boost, i said that now with everyone else can do the tank+shoot better then the amarr BS i think its time for a serious look at the amarr BS and then foremost the Apoc wich infact is better off doing the tank+dmg being fitted with autocannons. wouldnt you be depressed if you had to fit amarr guns on you mega to be able to get anywhere close to a level playing field? Quote:** [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
tookar	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:31:00 - [246] I fly amarr and have reasonable skills . In my experience most amarr ships (i dont fly hacs) are in a losing situation in almost any combat except fleet combat vs a same skilled player . The fact that we are predominantly mid ranged is crap as NO combat takes place at this range , our tanking is not the best anymore and even so gank>tank in almost all circumstances . My caldari alt has 2mil less sp than me and pwns tookar in any standard setup . nuff said!
Apolyon I	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:10:00 - [247] Originally by: tookar I fly amarr and have reasonable skills . In my experience most amarr ships (i dont fly hacs) are in a losing situation in almost any combat except fleet combat vs a same skilled player . The fact that we are predominantly mid ranged is crap as NO combat takes place at this range , our tanking is not the best anymore and even so gank>tank in almost all circumstances . My caldari alt has 2mil less sp than me and pwns tookar in any standard setup . nuff said! Geddon should take well care of raven in that case, it main damage type is EM and the Raven is shield tanked so Raven should be weak on EM and Ther. Of course unless the raven warp in less than 1km then your guns will have a bit of tracking problem.
Malken	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:45:00 - [248] Originally by: Apolyon I Originally by: tookar I fly amarr and have reasonable skills . In my experience most amarr ships (i dont fly hacs) are in a losing situation in almost any combat except fleet combat vs a same skilled player . The fact that we are predominantly mid ranged is crap as NO combat takes place at this range , our tanking is not the best anymore and even so gank>tank in almost all circumstances . My caldari alt has 2mil less sp than me and pwns tookar in any standard setup . nuff said! Geddon should take well care of raven in that case, it main damage type is EM and the Raven is shield tanked so Raven should be weak on EM and Ther. Of course unless the raven warp in less than 1km then your guns will have a bit of tracking problem. the raven can tank dmg, geddon cant tank as well because if he has a tank fitted he cant do enough dmg and tank at the same time like a raven can, neither can the Apoc. Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:47:00 - [249] I'm suprised so many people dont know this. Prooves one thing, they dont fly Amarr and thus shouldnt even post in this thread .
madaluap	Posted - 2006.06.02 16:01:00 - [250] Edited by: madaluap on 02/06/2006 16:02:10 Originally by: General Apocalypse Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 02/06/2006 04:35:22 Getting rid of the capacitor bonus on the Apoc would be a real step in the right direction. If the Apoc MUST be a tanking ship then give it a 7.5% bonus to Armor resists or a bonus to Armor amount so that it has a built in equivalent to 2 or 3 1600 plates. That would be fairly balanced considering that it's damage output is so poor. Listen French boy. It's more then clear u never fired the tachs of an Apoc and see how your cap drys faster the u can say fly. The cap bonus it's the only thing that alows the Apoc 2 use it's guns and tank. Else we woud need NOS just 2 keep all the guns runing. And if u think i'm wrong.Get abord a geddon fill it whit tachs and open fire now and tell me how many BS can u kill whidout taking a recharge break or using nos. And i mean week rat BS. Do this and then post for now keep your big moth shut - if u can. Nah, You cant even read so i wont shut up. Gallente has a damagemodbonus, ammar has a capbonus. But in the end they have about the same dps. What i said was that IF ammar wants a bigger damagemod than they have to lose the -50% capusage and get a +25%bonus, ALSO the capusage on the standard gun also gets halved (ending up with the same). IF this makes you happy, ok. Because thats whats everyone is whining about, more damage. Pointing @ the capbonus and saying thats crap, thats stupid the damagemod is BUILD IN. _________________________________________________

MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.02 16:20:00 - [251] Edited by: MacQueen on 02/06/2006 16:24:16 Edited by: MacQueen on 02/06/2006 16:22:40 Originally by: madaluap Nah, You cant even read so i wont shut up. Gallente has a damagemodbonus, ammar has a capbonus. But in the end they have about the same dps. What i said was that IF ammar wants a bigger damagemod than they have to lose the -50% capusage and get a +25%bonus, ALSO the capusage on the standard gun also gets halved (ending up with the same). IF this makes you happy, ok. Because thats whats everyone is whining about, more damage. Pointing @ the capbonus and saying thats crap, thats stupid the damagemod is BUILD IN. Its true that the Laser do have both built in tracking and damage bonus, but does it good enough??? The geddon still need the rof bonus to make it a reasonable ganking ship by the total expense of the capacitor and the Apoc do have the extra cap bonus at the cost of worst average DPS on any BS. ------------------ Trying to quit smoking. Drug time. ------------------
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.02 16:21:00 - [252] [quote-/quote] Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.02 16:25:00 - [253] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Nadec Ascand The thing i find the more funny with that is that nobody did complain before the gallente boost (why call it gallente when even amarr did get a dmg boost ...) Because in the past Amarr has only gotten nerfed, and everyone else has gotten a boost? You----------------------------------------------->the point again that desinformation >_> when was the last time when amarr got nerfed? back in the dark ages when even ravens fitted tachyons? the last change to amarr was a 4% dmg boost to tachs no nerf, and yes i know you dont care about tachs, they are still amarr tho Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2006.06.02 16:38:00 - [254] Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 02/06/2006 16:38:14 Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Nadec Ascand The thing i find the more funny with that is that nobody did complain before the gallente boost (why call it gallente when even amarr did get a dmg boost ...) Because in the past Amarr has only gotten nerfed, and everyone else has gotten a boost? You----------------------------------------------->the point again that desinformation >_> when was the last time when amarr got nerfed? back in the dark ages when even ravens fitted tachyons? the last change to amarr was a 4% dmg boost to tachs no nerf, and yes i know you dont care about tachs, they are still amarr tho
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:05:00 - [255] Edited by: Godar Marak on 02/06/2006 17:06:32 Originally by: Tiuwaz again that desinformation >_> when was the last time when amarr got nerfed? back in the dark ages when even ravens fitted tachyons? 2005 I belive it was, not to mention the stacking penatly hit Amarrians the hardest. Pre rmr most of us were fine with the way things were. Quote: the last change to amarr was a 4% dmg boost to tachs no nerf, and yes i know you dont care about tachs, they are still amarr tho A small 4% doesnt mean anything while you still need to gimp most setups being able to fit t2 tachs .....and dont say cap bonus on the apoc, pretty please.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:06:00 - [256] Originally by: PriceCheckMax Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 02/06/2006 16:38:14 Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Nadec Ascand The thing i find the more funny with that is that nobody did complain before the gallente boost (why call it gallente when even amarr did get a dmg boost ...) Because in the past Amarr has only gotten nerfed, and everyone else has gotten a boost? You----------------------------------------------->the point again that desinformation >_> when was the last time when amarr got nerfed? back in the dark ages when even ravens fitted tachyons? the last change to amarr was a 4% dmg boost to tachs no nerf, and yes i know you dont care about tachs, they are still amarr tho You figured out how to use the quote funciton, well done.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:07:00 - [257] The cap bonus, and the supposedly large cap Amarr ships have is fairly useless anyway - When everyone runs Cap 800 Boosters on their closerange setups, even the ships with ****tiest cap can run the same tank as the supposedly best tanker, the Apoc as long as they have charges. And the Apoc needs charges too when it wants a decent setup.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:17:00 - [258] Originally by: Godar Marak Edited by: Godar Marak on 02/06/2006 17:06:32 Originally by: Tiuwaz again that desinformation >_> when was the last time when amarr got nerfed? back in the dark ages when even ravens fitted tachyons? 2005 I belive it was, not to mention the stacking penatly hit Amarrians the hardest. Pre rmr most of us were fine with the way things were. that was a "general" nerf that affected everyone who used to fill his lowslots with dmg mods, i would go so far to say that it hurt artillery the most, as their rof is incredibly bad and loads of dmg mods helped that a bit as well as getting the most out of alpha strike the redeeming feature of arties Originally by: Godar Marak Quote: the last change to amarr was a 4% dmg boost to tachs no nerf, and yes i know you dont care about tachs, they are still amarr tho A small 4% doesnt mean anything while you still need to gimp most setups being able to fit t2 tachs .....and dont say cap bonus on the apoc, pretty please. its still a boost which was brought up to your desinformation about "only amarr nerfs", the only nerff you mentioned affected everyone, those with plenty of low slots more, i give you that its still not an amarr nerf tachs are as far as i know the highest dps guns ingame, therefore they also should be the hardest to fit, given the huge amount of lows you usually have 1-2 fitting mods dont hurt that much (unless you want to absolutely tank your long range BS >_>) Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:28:00 - [259] Edited by: Godar Marak on 02/06/2006 17:29:05 Originally by: Tiuwaz its still a boost which was brought up to your desinformation about "only amarr nerfs", the only nerff you mentioned affected everyone, those with plenty of low slots more, i give you that its still not an amarr nerf You are right, its not a Amarr only nerf. But as you mentioned in the end there, it affected ships the most that has a slot layout like Amarr ships have. Quote: tachs are as far as i know the highest dps guns ingame, therefore they also should be the hardest to fit, given the huge amount of lows you usually have 1-2 fitting mods dont hurt that much Uhh are you saying a t2 tach will hit harder than a t2 howie? Quote: (unless you want to absolutely tank your long range BS >_>) Ok, so the apoc is a long range bs...and the geddon is a medium range bs. Yet the other races has long-medium and shortrange bs's. Get within 9000meters of an amarr bs and you wont get hit much. And as far as the medium and long range arguement, maybe we should get a race specific Amarr warpcrambler that has a 40-100km range?
MacQueen	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:28:00 - [260] Originally by: Tiuwaz its still a boost which was brought up to your desinformation about "only amarr nerfs", the only nerff you mentioned affected everyone, those with plenty of low slots more, i give you that its still not an amarr nerf tachs are as far as i know the highest dps guns ingame, therefore they also should be the hardest to fit, given the huge amount of lows you usually have 1-2 fitting mods dont hurt that much (unless you want to absolutely tank your long range BS >_>) Tach still not superior in long range DPS nor reaching the highest range of sniper. So, you mean we have to sacrify 2 of our low slots just to be a fair snipper and those good sniper dont have to ??? ------------------ Trying to quit smoking. Drug time. ------------------

Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:35:00 - [261] Originally by: Godar Marak Quote: tachs are as far as i know the highest DPS guns ingame, therefore they also should be the hardest to fit, given the huge amount of lows you usually have 1-2 fitting mods dont hurt that much Uhh are you saying a t2 tach will hit harder than a t2 howie? I highlighted and bolded the important part, another hint is that howis are the worst dps guns ingame, if i have to explain what dps is then we better stop discussing here Originally by: Godar Marak Quote: (unless you want to absolutely tank your long range BS >_>) Ok, so the apoc is a long range bs...and the geddon is a medium range bs. Yet the other races has long-medium and shortrange bs's. Get within 9000meters of an amarr bs and you wont hit much. And as far as the medium and long range arguement, maybe we should get a race specific Amarr warpcrambler that has a 40-100km range? i dont want to get too much into that as i have little experience with amarr bs at closerange, but 1 comment: everyone except gallente will try to fight at +10km for close range the tier3 BS are coming with kali perhaps one of your BS will get a closerange role then /no clue Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Masta Killa	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:39:00 - [262] I am also a hysterical little girl and I think amarr need to be boosted by 150%. I think amarr suck because i can't fit the amarr ships so i need ccp and TUX (HE WILL NOTICE AND BOOST AMARR BECAUSE I DID ALL THAT STUFF TO HIS NAME) to change them so i can fit them well without knowing anything or even thinking about how to fit it right because thinking makes my head hurt and when my head hurts i cry bitter tears of noobdom. --------------------------------------
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:42:00 - [263] Originally by: Tiuwaz I highlighted and bolded the important part You did what now where? Maybe its just my monitor but I see no letters in bold in the post I quoted you in. Quote: the tier3 BS are coming with kali perhaps one of your BS will get a closerange role then /no clue It would certainly make me happy.
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:43:00 - [264] Originally by: Masta Killa I am also a hysterical little girl Master of the obvious.
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:53:00 - [265] Originally by: Wheya I am sorry but I think the Amarr lobby is doing a terrible job with crappy arguments here. This doesnt mean I think everything is balanced, though. this sums up the whole week of horrible amarr threads also good post and i kinda agree with the EAN's Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Masta Killa	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:55:00 - [266] Originally by: Godar Marak Originally by: Masta Killa I am also a hysterical little girl Master of the obvious. Yes, you and I are the same. Neither can put any thought into his setup or tactics so we both need to cry on the forums, using arguments that are usually not even true. --------------------------------------
Yodohime Kibagami	Posted - 2006.06.02 17:57:00 - [267] Originally by: Wheya Edited by: Wheya on 02/06/2006 17:53:12 Lasers by default have the best tracking. Numbers shamelessly grabbed from ingame market. Focused medium pulse I tracking speed: 0.072 Heavy pulse I tracking speed: 0.065 dual 180mm tracking speed: 0.132 220mm vulcan I tracking speed: 0.1175 425mm autocannon I tracking speed: 0.1065 Heavy electron blaster I tracking speed: 0.12 Heavy ion blaster I tracking speed: 0.11 Heavy neutron blaster I tracking speed: 0.1 Afaik the only amarr t1 ship with tracking bonus is destroyer. Sure they do nice damage, if you could fit them without using the extra low slot pair faction boni, and then some for cap.
Wheya	Posted - 2006.06.02 18:23:00 - [268] Yodohime Kibagami, my statement was lacking some more explanation. Lasers do always have the best tracking in optimal range aka range/tracking ratio. Of course blasters and autocannos have better tracking as an absolute number because they were designed to fire at a much shorter range and that's absolutely fine and balanced. The laser user want to keep some distance, the AC/blaster user wants to close up. They often meet somewhere in the middle if both use webifiers where AC/basters shoot in falloff range with higher base damage while pulse lasers fire below optimal range but often still not have tracking issues because the opponent is approaching at a very low speed when webbed (often with activated mwd and a huge sig penalty).
Yodohime Kibagami	Posted - 2006.06.02 18:46:00 - [269] Originally by: Wheya Yodohime Kibagami, my statement was lacking some more explanation. Lasers do always have the best tracking in optimal range aka range/tracking ratio. Of course blasters and autocannos have better tracking as an absolute number because they were designed to fire at a much shorter range and that's absolutely fine and balanced. The laser user want to keep some distance, the AC/blaster user wants to close up. They often meet somewhere in the middle if both use webifiers where AC/basters shoot in falloff range with higher base damage while pulse lasers fire below optimal range but often still not have tracking issues because the opponent is approaching at a very low speed when webbed (often with activated mwd and a huge sig penalty). Yeah that makes more sense allthough a narrower area where you have worse tracking to sounds a little ackward, still I'm glad of the explanation behind the sentence that didnt look right. In the end its not really even the tracking that worries me of amarr guns, its their fitting requirement in relation to the powergrid offered on the ships they are supposed to be mounted. And the mandatory 10% less cap ship boni for fighting vessels that cuts down on the possible boni's they could have.
Malken	Posted - 2006.06.02 19:01:00 - [270] Originally by: Wheya Yodohime Kibagami, my statement was lacking some more explanation. Lasers do always have the best tracking in optimal range aka range/tracking ratio. Of course blasters and autocannos have better tracking as an absolute number because they were designed to fire at a much shorter range and that's absolutely fine and balanced. The laser user want to keep some distance, the AC/blaster user wants to close up. They often meet somewhere in the middle if both use webifiers where AC/basters shoot in falloff range with higher base damage while pulse lasers fire below optimal range but often still not have tracking issues because the opponent is approaching at a very low speed when webbed (often with activated mwd and a huge sig penalty). since you think that Amarr is so good and perfect now maybe you can explain why i am capable of doing better dmg and tank better and have a huge optimal when using autocannons on my apoc instead of beams or pulses. btw... i not only does more dmg i also does all dmg types. it is just so wrong. Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN



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