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Diemex
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Posted - 2006.05.28 12:09:00 -
[1]
...Really...
If you want to get paid... it has to make sense.
My ships insured.... and its insured for more than I paid for it. If the cost of the ransom is higher than my modules installed and my ship cargo hold contents.... then I may as well just orbit and die... cheaper than paying up.
ie: 5 M ransom for a crapola setup thorax.... ferget it. I let you blow me up... I can replace my crap cheaper.
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Vurg
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Posted - 2006.05.28 12:37:00 -
[2]
Cost of fittings and insurance aren't the only things to consider. You also have to take into mind how long it will take the person to replace the ship and fittings. That can take a long time if the modules are hard to get, which potentially means time wasted that could have been spent making more ISK.
And stop making threads. 
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KamikazeHamster
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Posted - 2006.05.28 12:56:00 -
[3]
And how do you know that Thorax hasn't come across a faction NPc drop recently, or has some expensive t2 gear fitted, or whatever. Also, how do you know he hasn't insured?
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:12:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: KamikazeHamster
And how do you know that Thorax hasn't come across a faction NPc drop recently, or has some expensive t2 gear fitted, or whatever. Also, how do you know he hasn't insured?
QFT
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Rina Shanu
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:14:00 -
[5]
I determine the ransom based on: ship type/insurance, character age.
For example, a thorax plus fitting can be arround 9 mil, plus insurance. Think about drones also. So asking arround half that is quite reasonable.
But think if that thrax costs more, has more expensive modules on.. what if the number of thoraxes on market in the area is small.... than the price can go higher.
I also try and negociate if possible.
If you do not agree than just do not pay.
Oh, if someone smacks hard or annoys for whatever reason, than the ransom goes up...
*** Terror Raising Agenda ***
NOW RECRUITING |
Diemex
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:22:00 -
[6]
I agree that the ransom could be higher if the person had some rare/named items.
Myself... If I was hit for 5M ransom... I'd just let him pop me. I can replace everything for less than 5M. Time is nothing to me... I got all the time in the world.
Do pirates negotiate ransoms ?
Like if I said 'I got crap modules not worth it to pay...' would the pirate reduce the ransom... or just pop you ? Maybe it would be handy to carry a scanner... who knows maybe you dont want to ransom if theres a chance one of those shiny modules will not be destroyed and can be looted.
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Talon Calais
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Diemex
Like if I said 'I got crap modules not worth it to pay...' would the pirate reduce the ransom... or just pop you ? Maybe it would be handy to carry a scanner... who knows maybe you dont want to ransom if theres a chance one of those shiny modules will not be destroyed and can be looted.
That's where player age comes in, if they're like less than 4 months old, then yes they are 99% telling the truth, but if they're 3 years and saying that, i'll nuke it and see what hes holding inside.
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Diemex
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Talon Calais
That's where player age comes in, if they're like less than 4 months old, then yes they are 99% telling the truth, but if they're 3 years and saying that, i'll nuke it and see what hes holding inside.
Sounds fair to me.
Pirates aren't all that bad ! 
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Brisi
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:34:00 -
[9]
To be honest dude, the a single Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II is 5m, and those are a very common fit on rax'es nowadays, and that's just one of many possible mods.
5m is a decent ransom for a cruiser, depending on the age of the pilot ofc.
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Ayame Mishima
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Diemex
Do pirates negotiate ransoms ?
As far as it sounds reasonable and you're paying up fast afterwards, yes. If it seems like you're stalling for time, surely not.
Originally by: Diemex
Like if I said 'I got crap modules not worth it to pay...' would the pirate reduce the ransom... or just pop you ? Maybe it would be handy to carry a scanner... who knows maybe you dont want to ransom if theres a chance one of those shiny modules will not be destroyed and can be looted.
Yes... carry around a ship + cargo scanner would be a good idea... just if you could mind to tell me where to fit it to my 3-4 med slot amarr ship in addition to scram etc.? 
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.05.28 13:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Diemex
I agree that the ransom could be higher if the person had some rare/named items.
Myself... If I was hit for 5M ransom... I'd just let him pop me. I can replace everything for less than 5M. Time is nothing to me... I got all the time in the world.
Do pirates negotiate ransoms ?
Like if I said 'I got crap modules not worth it to pay...' would the pirate reduce the ransom... or just pop you ? Maybe it would be handy to carry a scanner... who knows maybe you dont want to ransom if theres a chance one of those shiny modules will not be destroyed and can be looted.
Well the thing is, not all Thoraxes are equal..
I've been playing just a bit over two years, and replacing my thorax costs me about 20-30 million, depending on the setup - in which case I'd gladly pay the ransom.
The only time I ever fly a thorax, however, is PvP, where I don't generally get ransomed. 
Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs.
Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Rockbox
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Posted - 2006.05.28 14:05:00 -
[12]
Krulla pays his ransoms :D
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting
Verone > ♥ |
Zarithas
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Posted - 2006.05.28 14:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Diemex
I agree that the ransom could be higher if the person had some rare/named items.
Myself... If I was hit for 5M ransom... I'd just let him pop me. I can replace everything for less than 5M. Time is nothing to me... I got all the time in the world.
Do pirates negotiate ransoms ?
Like if I said 'I got crap modules not worth it to pay...' would the pirate reduce the ransom... or just pop you ? Maybe it would be handy to carry a scanner... who knows maybe you dont want to ransom if theres a chance one of those shiny modules will not be destroyed and can be looted.
I negotiate ransoms depending on loacl. If I am 100% certain that there is no one else in local or at least no one who is in the same corp, alliance, or friends with the person, then I may do very brief negotiating. I'm willing to be lenient if he's 100% broke. I'd ask him to eject and use his ship as ransom money.
-----
Want to join a true pirate corp that will accept and train newbs, and also recruit pros? More info here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=343001 |
Theresa Tusktooth
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zarithas
Originally by: Diemex
I agree that the ransom could be higher if the person had some rare/named items.
Myself... If I was hit for 5M ransom... I'd just let him pop me. I can replace everything for less than 5M. Time is nothing to me... I got all the time in the world.
Do pirates negotiate ransoms ?
Like if I said 'I got crap modules not worth it to pay...' would the pirate reduce the ransom... or just pop you ? Maybe it would be handy to carry a scanner... who knows maybe you dont want to ransom if theres a chance one of those shiny modules will not be destroyed and can be looted.
I negotiate ransoms depending on loacl. If I am 100% certain that there is no one else in local or at least no one who is in the same corp, alliance, or friends with the person, then I may do very brief negotiating. I'm willing to be lenient if he's 100% broke. I'd ask him to eject and use his ship as ransom money.
Lol, Why would someone eject his or her ship as a ransom, wouldnt you rather get blown up and leave the pirate with nothing?
The Key To Winning Any Fight Is Simply Staying Alive. |
Krulla
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rockbox
Krulla pays his ransoms :D
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs.
Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Heikki
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:34:00 -
[16]
Actually, never really grasped why people determinate ransom amount so summarily, unless it's for some Pirate RP experience/fun.
I think it is not economically wise to ask for ransom in most cases, from pirates point of view.
Or in other words, even if only 1 in 100 ships carried cargo thats 100 times more valuable than the common cost of the said ship and fittings, it would be wiser just the blow the ship and pick the loots.
When you ransom you get either medicore ISK or zero ISK and crap mods. If you just blow everything, now and then you'll get jackpots.
So ransoming seems to make sense only if you know the ratio of ransom and expected loot. Like with Freighters, or you when you use cargo&ship scanners. Perhaps even with those cases where the ship itself is expensive, not the fittings, like Hulk.
-Lasse
who has never tried to ransom
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Nahia Senne
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Posted - 2006.05.28 16:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Theresa Tusktooth
Lol, Why would someone eject his or her ship as a ransom, wouldnt you rather get blown up and leave the pirate with nothing?
you liekly get to keep your pod and you get the isk. pirate wont make you eject without compensating you.
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fmercury
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Heikki
Actually, never really grasped why people determinate ransom amount so summarily, unless it's for some Pirate RP experience/fun.
I think it is not economically wise to ask for ransom in most cases, from pirates point of view.
Or in other words, even if only 1 in 100 ships carried cargo thats 100 times more valuable than the common cost of the said ship and fittings, it would be wiser just the blow the ship and pick the loots.
When you ransom you get either medicore ISK or zero ISK and crap mods. If you just blow everything, now and then you'll get jackpots.
So ransoming seems to make sense only if you know the ratio of ransom and expected loot. Like with Freighters, or you when you use cargo&ship scanners. Perhaps even with those cases where the ship itself is expensive, not the fittings, like Hulk.
-Lasse
who has never tried to ransom
Wise words.
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Aodha Khan
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:23:00 -
[19]
When calculating the ransom you also have to figure in the cost of the forthcoming pod kill.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
xeom
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:47:00 -
[20]
I must say back when i pirated one of the main reasons people didnt pay was probably becuase of the crazy prices i asked for  .
Now and days i know 15m is too much for a cyclone =\
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? |
Lesbos
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Posted - 2006.05.28 18:33:00 -
[21]
Edited by: *****s on 28/05/2006 18:33:29
Originally by: Diemex
...Really...
If you want to get paid... it has to make sense.
My ships insured.... and its insured for more than I paid for it. If the cost of the ransom is higher than my modules installed and my ship cargo hold contents.... then I may as well just orbit and die... cheaper than paying up.
ie: 5 M ransom for a crapola setup thorax.... ferget it. I let you blow me up... I can replace my crap cheaper.
Time is money. If people refuse to pay, then they slowboat home in a pod. And if they aren't noob chars, the pod get's ransomed after the ship blows up. It's easy!
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Espen
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Posted - 2006.05.28 18:42:00 -
[22]
uber long sig ftw
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Hashim
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Posted - 2006.05.28 20:14:00 -
[23]
Ransom? What is this ransom you speak of?
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
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Posted - 2006.05.29 14:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Diemex
My ships insured.... and its insured for more than I paid for it. If the cost of the ransom is higher than my modules installed and my ship cargo hold contents.... then I may as well just orbit and die... cheaper than paying up.
You DO realize though that your insurance has to be paid for in the first place?
Assume you have for the sake of this stupid example a Raven for 100 million, you insure it so you get say 100 million if it gets destroyed, then insurance costs you I dunno - 25 million? Furthermore say you have 5 million in modules fitted and an empty cargo hold. Overall investment is 130 million.
The next day you get ransomed for 10 million. You disagree. You loose your ship, and the insurance pays 100 million. Now you are 30 million short - the new Raven you might buy needs to be insured again!
Not even considering that your clone costs $$$ and may have implants.
But I agree, ransoms must be reasonable. If in above example someone ransoms me for 10 million, I would pay. If they ransom me for 30 million, I probably wouldn't. "Why?", you may ask, since I have to run arround buy new modules, should I not pay? No! I have still 12 weeks left, during that time I might be pirated again.
I think the whole "insurance premium as ransom" thing only works because people are either having implants or not doing proper probability analysis ;)
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Zafriel
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Posted - 2006.05.29 14:16:00 -
[25]
A basic megathron fitting costs about 40-50mil isk, so If I see a megathron I ransom for 100mil, if the guy is mining I would do it for 50mil
Bikkini-clad ladies removed =P |
Rina Shanu
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Posted - 2006.05.29 15:47:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Rina Shanu on 29/05/2006 15:49:01
Originally by: Theresa Tusktooth
Lol, Why would someone eject his or her ship as a ransom, wouldnt you rather get blown up and leave the pirate with nothing?
Sometimes the pod... can be very valuable. So one may agree to eject the ship and leave it for you.
Other thing is they think the ship is gone anyhow and thus eject, but in this case you could just stop destroying it and take it.
Or, right on the bridge of destruction some eject to confuse the attacker and warp away to save the pod.
NOW RECRUITING |
Dead sexy4
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Posted - 2006.05.29 16:34:00 -
[27]
Man some of you pirates/pvpers have a wierd sense of whats fair and whats not,
just because you feel its fair to pvp a non-pvper and ask for Big money its fair but for the non-pvper its not some he dont pay as he/she has not agreed to this pvp fight.
if you want to get rich quick go to 0.0 and rat the BS's out there and sell the loot in empire space you can get a lot more isk that way
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Zafriel
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Posted - 2006.05.29 16:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dead sexy4
Man some of you pirates/pvpers have a wierd sense of whats fair and whats not,
just because you feel its fair to pvp a non-pvper and ask for Big money its fair but for the non-pvper its not some he dont pay as he/she has not agreed to this pvp fight.
if you want to get rich quick go to 0.0 and rat the BS's out there and sell the loot in empire space you can get a lot more isk that way
If its not from another player I really dont want to know, I pvp either combat, role-play or trade. I undertsand that people like to npc hunt/mine, but playing with non player controlled entitys in a mmorpg just seems like a waste to me.
Bikkini-clad ladies removed =P |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.29 17:01:00 -
[29]
Somebody should draft out a recommended ransom price (RRP) list.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Golden Helmet
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Posted - 2006.05.29 18:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Krulla
Originally by: Rockbox
Krulla pays his ransoms :D
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
we ♥ you krulla, even though you frikken melt at least one of us every time we encounter you
never seen a hardened battlecruiser put in to structure so fast....
Don't worry, your sig is safe...wait...oops. --Jorauk |
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