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Are WCS's considered "bad" in PVP

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James Swift	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:11:00 - [1] I have only been playing for 5 weeks and I am sorry if this topic has been beat to death. I am not looking for a debate just an answer or opinion. I have seen references to people using WCS in PVP as being unfair or whatever. I am getting ready to try PVP, and fully expect to die, just doing research on ship fittings and wanted to get an answer or opinion on this topic that I have seen references to. Again, sorry if this is already a dead horse and I really hope this thread does not degenerate into a debate. I will be happy after the first clarification or explantion. Thanks.
Electric Cucumber	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:15:00 - [2] WCS are not unfair, they are part of the game and don't bother talking with people who call you a coward or whatever because you warped away thanks to stabs. Everyone fits their ships the way they see fit, end of story... Personnally I prefer tanking or amage mods to WCS.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:16:00 - [3] On a combat setup theres generally more useful things to fit than WCS, and unless you fight straight WCS in all your lows (greatly decreasing combat effectiveness) you're likely to get tackled anyways. Those two reasons are why I haven't used WCS in quite a while... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Ather Ialeas	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:16:00 - [4] WCS in PvP is in my opinion OK since it hinders either your damage dealing capability or tanking capability. ________________________________________________ My signature exploded :/
Peanut's Alt	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:18:00 - [5] Edited by: Peanut''s Alt on 28/05/2006 18:24:49 I had a long post on this, but it was with the wrong character and I realized that most of my answers were already stated. Bottom and un-debatable line: -As for the combat-effectiveness of them: WCS will lower your chances of winning in PvP because they take up (a) slot(s) ( more than one is almost always equipped) that could be used with a module that boosts damage, tank, etc. However, they will increase your chances of escaping from a fight in which you are outmatched. It's your choice. -As for the fairness or morality of them: If someone tells you that WCS are unfair it is because they don't want their enemy to run just because they are losing. When you fit them, you trade pride for safety. Once again, it's your choice.
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:18:00 - [6] Some people hate them, some people embrace them. Most people use every in-game advantage they can have in pvp. Other people have principles
Samirol	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:18:00 - [7] with WCS, you can run away. You are bargaining whether you can beat their setup with tanking/damage mods or whether you can run away if the sh!t hits the fan Shakespearean Insults
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 28/05/2006 18:19:50 I only buy Halcyons. EDIT: Caldari ships are bad for PvP and TBH they do well with WCS in lows. Cant fit anything else. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
jibbyj jiwwa	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:20:00 - [9] OK so the actual issue is that the WCS allows you to potentially run away instead of fighting it out. I guess reading that, its obvious now, I was thinking there was some other reason. Thanks for the responses and clarifications.
Stamm	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:21:00 - [10] The people that hate WCS so much are the ones that just attacked a cruiser with 6 other cruisers, and it got away. For example KiaTolons alt smacked me for 5 minutes solid because I got out. You significantly sacrifice damage or tank if you fit a WCS, so it's a cost/benefit thing.
Zanarkand	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:24:00 - [11] I, personally, use WCS on every possible ship. The more WCS the better! 2 WCS frigates, 4 WCS cruisers, and 5-6 wcs on BSes. <- these are all PvP fits.
Masu'di	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:27:00 - [12] you significantly, loose damage and tanking if you fit WCS, but then again, the enemy has to make some sacrifice to his setup, so he can fit enough scramblers.
Traeon	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:27:00 - [13] Quote: I, personally, use WCS on every possible ship. The more WCS the better! 2 WCS frigates, 4 WCS cruisers, and 5-6 wcs on BSes. <- these are all PvP fits. Do you ever get kills with these setups?
Forsch	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:28:00 - [14] The thing is in group fights, by fitting wcs you kinda screw over your gang mates if you warp out instead of dealing more damage or lasting longer because of a plate or resists. You can warp back in, but depending on the size of the battle, that might be too long. You save your ship but you help your gang less than you could if you fit other mods. If going into PvP you should be ready to lose your ship. If it takes that you support your gang, so be it. I am one of those who thinks WCS on a combat ship are a waste of slots. Forsch Defender of the empire More love for side factions!
PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:28:00 - [15] Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 28/05/2006 18:30:38
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Masu'di but then again, the enemy has to make some sacrifice to his setup, so he can fit enough scramblers. Guess why interdictors are becoming extremely prevalent in 0.0? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.05.28 18:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Masu'di but then again, the enemy has to make some sacrifice to his setup, so he can fit enough scramblers. Guess why interdictors are becoming extremely prevalent in 0.0? WCS PvPers own hard in Empire. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
4 LOM	Posted - 2006.05.28 19:37:00 - [18] Depends on the situation.... if you need to run away they are good, if you need to stay and fight they are bad. Alot of people hate them because people can get away, what they dont relize is that person is sacrifcing alot to fit those stabs (big opertunity cost there). in a big fight i would rather have all the enemy ships runnings stabs over damage mods since they prolly cant warp out in time anyways. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Murehk	Posted - 2006.05.28 19:46:00 - [19] Edited by: Murehk on 28/05/2006 19:46:21 People will call you a woss and stuff like that but its oh so funny when you get (this happened to me btw) someone who first sets the most appauling trap ever with him in a stealth bombed and his mate in a frig (I went back to system to take out frig because whilst I was ratting there in my throwaway frig it was getting very annoying and eventually killed me, and no matter what ship I'm in I still don't like being killed) The frig tackled me, Stealth bomber oncloaked, opened fire and then jammed me. After I warped away because of WCS because between them they were doing to much damage and without NOS I couldnt keep my tank going, I got killed a noob and scardy cat fro running away and it not being "fair" on them. (sorry if i rambled a bit to much)
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.05.28 20:06:00 - [20] I consider WCS bad form in pvp setups yes. Not because they aren't usefull, but because some ships get turned into no-risk vessels by them. It's also a vote of no confidence in your own ability to use them. It's risk avoidance where a good part of the fun in pvp is exactly that risk. Killing NPC'ers in a stabbed up vagabond for example would not appeal to me at all. Examples: EW +5raven (with precisions especially), stababond, EW +5 dominix. Personally I don't use wcs except in setups desinged to travel, not fight. In that case I have no issue with fitting them across all lows if needed. Old blog
Cohkka	Posted - 2006.05.28 20:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Ather Ialeas WCS in PvP is in my opinion OK since it hinders either your damage dealing capability or tanking capability. I introduce you the Raven and the Stabbabond and all ships who were using a full rack of damage mods before RMR (including every longrange sniperplatform).
FFGR	Posted - 2006.05.28 21:18:00 - [22] Personally I don't mind much people that travel using Stabs. And I understand it when a person that is flying an expensive HAC to be using one or two (if you can't cope with the loss just don't fly it damn it!). What I DONT understand is people flying into PvP in frigs, having lows full of stabs _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2006.05.28 22:42:00 - [23] As for traveling purposes they are fine. On industrial they are fine and even on some cobat setups i have no problem. BUT some ppl just overdo that and have really lame tactics to go with. I dont fit them on combat ships. As fot the ppl geting smack for them just ignore it they are fair play part of the game lame one but part of it nevertheless.
lofty29	Posted - 2006.05.28 22:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Rod Blaine ...stababond... Isnt that basically what the vaga's meant to do? Run in, kill one target, run the **** away? --------------------------- I wanna be dev-jacked
gfldex	Posted - 2006.05.29 00:47:00 - [25] With WCS you force your enemy to bring more ppl to kill you. If you like unfair fight fit them. -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Nova Strikes	Posted - 2006.05.29 01:08:00 - [26] I dont like stabs no. Most i've used was 1 on me ferox and its saved me.. what twice? Once against a 10-man inty fleet, which was pretty cool, but still might have been able to manage it without the stab. I would like stabs to stacking nerf like dmg mods personally, so that no risk yuppies in vagas cant pretend that there uber PvPers (insert your name here if you know me) If you wanna be good at PvP you should stay away from stabs, they will **** up your risk taking decisions, screw any attempts at a fair 1v1 fight, and not teach you very much about choising your battles. And anyway once you get good, what kinda fun you gonna have with a stabbed rig all the time, killing miner BS in a belt, i mean how fun is that compared to a 1v1 or 5v5 come on guys!! Remember for the rush not for the mail.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.05.29 01:18:00 - [27] Edited by: Tasty Burger on 29/05/2006 01:18:54 I have no problem with people that fit 2 or 3 stabs in lows when they are outnumbered and want to fight guerilla style, and occasionaly I am one of those people. I am, however, aggravated by full stababonds and WCS ravens, yes.
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.05.29 01:54:00 - [28] I only use WCS when travelling alone or if I don't want to fight. I'd rather fit other things if I am going into a fight. Don't fly something if you can't afford to lose it. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
everlasting shadow	Posted - 2006.05.29 04:03:00 - [29] Yeh, I agree with some of the comments in this post. However, I was happily mining in one area and altho I managed to escape 3 Raven Pirates, they still got me at the Station docking port just before I managed to dock. I should have had after burner, also the Stab has helped me quite a few times before to get away, Sometimes with 50HP left on my hull, and thus saving me lots of time and ISK's. The way I see it if they fit the Scram you fit the Stab. Usualy players will target other players if they know they outmatch you, not the other way arround. I was in a frig going to jump and got sniped from 125K away by a pirate in a Megathron..
CFC Fodder	Posted - 2006.05.29 05:23:00 - [30] Rat and PvP in the same setup... one WCS, and I say STFU top someone who says I play poorly. :D

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