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Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
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Posted - 2014.05.20 08:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
erg cz wrote:
TL;DR : game needs more PVE missions much more, than starbase or ship tweaks. Newbees are not ready for PvP and get slaughtered by losers in low sec without possibility even to shot back. Give them more room for entertaining in high sec and they will stay in game to join PvP later on.
In my latest proposal concerning substantional remaking of corporate mechanics I've also came up with idea of a new type of agent's missions to which only members of one corp have access. They are based on "capital escalation" WH mechanics and scale up to the actual size of your gang, both in terms of difficulty AND profit for each participant. They are also have some rudiment protection against multiboxing. The idea is to give incentive to players to gather in bigger corps even in highs and allow them to compensate rising risks (that will be awoxing and wardecs) with 20 to 50% more profits from this collective oriented missions. You can follow it here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=344554 Note, that it's currently under huge remastering, as the concept undergone substantional changes, I'll try to deliver new one in a day or two (I hope I'll make it) |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:If I remember reading rightly Eve took inspiration from games such as Elite waaaay back. That was intrinsically a solo game and became extremely popular as such. I believe there is room for both solo and group play in Eve and the key is finding how to marry the two together.
Solo part of the game are obviously needed. But there ar two problem with Eve regarding group PvE:
1) PvE is a crap. A boring and "no brain requierd" one. Aside from specific cases, of course, like WH soloing or soloplexing in nulls.
2) The game hardly rewards for collective playstile in highsecs (in nulls and lows it's moslty needed to survive, but not in highs). It's more risk, but no tangible reward. And even in nulls they more oftenly prefer to multibox hard plexes than to do it in group - because PvE is a crap and you can just hang in grid plummering red crosses with missiles and healing yourself with an alt - thats about all the skills needed. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
There have been many threads here that have an assortment of proposals all of which can improve the PvE experience. My preference is that missions become randomized and contain more sansha like enemies that behave more like real pilots.
This is not enough. It still comes down to "EFT resolved battles" - "will I can be able to tank it or not? and what if I will add some logistic alt to the grid?". We need an aditional design tweaks which will force players a) to simultaneously do some slighly different tasks no one of each are doable by one man in two windows (be it minigames or interations with something through GUI) b) to simultaneously engage enemies while being in different pockets or being separated by huge distances, enforced by some kind of timeframe you have to keep to (so by creating only one such "fork" we will make multiboxing substantionnaly more daunting task - it will need twice as more windows - and will probably require at least two multiboxers to cooperate)
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Others include the suggestion to include CONCORD as a career path to enforce law in losec, the non-scannable regions proposed by Dinsdale Piranha, the idea for distress calls someone came up with a while back and many others I can't think of immediately.
Concord does not enforce the law, just keep in force some specific treaties. There is an NPC police in the game. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alternative Splicing wrote:Brave Newbies got where they are today by strapping every day old pilot into a tech I Atron and tossing them into a beautiful crucible that was known as Barleguet. There was no waiting, there was only learning how to pvp from day one. The more you coddle and push back the day when you have 'enough' SP/ISK/Ships to go learn PvP, the more and more layers of terrible habits there are to break, and the losses actually costly.
To retain and get new players interested, the last thing we need is solo or hisec stuff - they need a narrative and a purpose that is full of the vitality, one that is created by players and unique, not some canned PvE content. Developing dependence on being fed said canned content is the problem in the first place.
There is one substantional problem to such views - they don't account for the fact, that PvP can also sometimes can become boring. There would nothing bad about changing occupation from time to time, if not for PvE being numbling stupid.
And sometimes it's even crash of illusions concerning nullsecs' clashes and politics that drives people away from all these. There have to be something other that keeps people in game, at least for some time. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alternative Splicing wrote:
To retain and get new players interested, the last thing we need is solo or hisec stuff - they need a narrative and a purpose that is full of the vitality, one that is created by players and unique, not some canned PvE content. Developing dependence on being fed said canned content is the problem in the first place.
Have you eve gave a thought to sources of all those isk you are spending on those atrons and your capitals you are using now in Catch? Or it's just magically pop up one day in corp hangar to be used as replacement for lost ones? There is a full layer of gameplay in eve, which hasn't been attended by developers for years, like mining, or those agent missions. Which serves as sources of isk for game's economy and material for its industry. And claims that all the game needs is a little more PvP is equivalent to saying "Go get those isks and tritanium from those numbingly boring missions/anomalies/rocks that I could mount my shiny mega and find myself some pew-pew while you are at it". Very egoistic point of view, in fact. Or are you propose to transorm Eve in some kind of session MMO like WoT, where all ship just respawn after being blown to bits? No need for industry layer, no need for isk income, lets just sell them via ingame shop like in warthunder. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:
yes it does. but why put so much work into it when all players do is say 'well now ive completed the game, what now'.
what u'd have to do is what blizzard do and spend thousands of hours constantly updating PvE to stop these players getting bored.
No, you just account for past mistakes and do it properly this time. With random contents of missions, significant hassles to multiboxing and botting, scalability in both difficulty level and profits according to size of group. There is no need to add a new arc per week, but it have to stop being so boring and frustrating as it is. Because it won't go anywhere. You still need it to fill your wallet, or even if you are hard boiled pvp cowboy, your potential victims need. There is no reason make ingame lives of all those people more miserable than they should be by circumstances placed upon us all by game's concept. PvE must be redesigned to a decent level, and you can leave it lay after this for another several years. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:yeah...diablo 3 has random spawns, random dungeons, scalable difficulty with rewards. so does EVE.
and ppl still get bored, its still a grind.
PvE can be overhauled yeah, it can be improved with some greater unpredictability yeah, and id like that somewhere down the line.
What exactly do you want to propose then? Just give away some isk to players each month? Or sell ingame money for plexes like in pay-to-wins? We have to rely on PvE as on source of income. If someone restricts himself to PvE only and gets bored - it's his problems. Why all other players should suffer the horrifically dumb experience of fund raising by shooting red croses? It's not ideal and won't be, but it shouldn't be THAT bad. If you can just clean out all mobs in pocket while staying at one spot and healing yourself with an alt - it's not just bad mechanics, it's horrible, even browser casual games offer more challenging experinece.
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Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:
The only "important" thing PVE does is create ISK out of thin air (via rat bounties and mission rewards). If this stopped right now today, then the markets would carry on for a good long while, until sales tax swallowed all the ISK available in the game ... but when we're talking taxes of a few million ... and wallets that reach into the trillions ... it'll take a while.
You are totally forgetfull about those billions and billions of isks on accounts those banned or those leaving Eve for eternity/for a long time. Those frozen assets won't contribute to game's economy at all. Especially taking into account that many such veterans often hardly find a reason to spend them in eve. What they supposedly will buy? Another titan or two? If they don't run some null aliance, than what for? In eve you can't buy a planet for yourself and start to rule here as its sole diety and/or dictator. You can't invest or grant them to some bold scientific research or create some seedy paradise known as the place when most wicked desires comes true. In short, most of the things you would be able to do while being a billionare IRL are not represented in Eve universe, or represented quite badly. But at the same time only selected few will decide to part with their wealth without a reason. Or would risk to RMT it. So those money those Rockfellers have accumulated for years can be striked out from spreadsheets in many cases.
Thats why a constant influx of fresh isks are needed. And it's mostly defferent forms of PvE that provide it for you. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:You can't invest or grant them to some bold scientific research or create some seedy paradise known as the place when most wicked desires comes true. In short, most of the things you would be able to do while being a billionare IRL are not represented in Eve universe, or represented quite badly. But at the same time only selected few will decide to part with their wealth without a reason. Or would risk to RMT it. So those money those Rockfellers have being accumulated for years can be striked out from spreadsheets in many cases.
And thats, btw, the reason I think ability to customize the world of EVE through installation of unique structures and some kind of terraforming or even landing and changing the face of some planet would create an excellent vent out for those assets laying undisturbed for years by just selling all the tools needed via npc orders with ridiculously high cost. For many insanely reach people ingame It should be rather boring and trivial to just set their flag in some copy-paste solar system after all these years. But adorning it in your colors and imprinting it with your pesronality is a totally different thing. |
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