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Faust ExNihilo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
   |
Posted - 2014.05.20 07:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Raiz Nhell wrote:Or just move your mining operations 25 jumps... have a second base somewhere out of the way.
Move over there quietly, mine, wait for wardec to drop before hauling minerals to trade hub.
Hopefully your corp mates provide more sport for the wardeccers and not jump out to the ass end of nowhere to get you...
That does not work. I have over 200 locators including the locates channel. A competent wardeccer will always find you. Always.
What are "locators" and "running locates" and the "locates channel?"
Is this networks of people cooperating to provide intel?
Do they do it for fun or is it quid pro quo?
Or is it something else? |
Elzira Kore
Kore Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 07:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Faust ExNihilo wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Raiz Nhell wrote:Or just move your mining operations 25 jumps... have a second base somewhere out of the way.
Move over there quietly, mine, wait for wardec to drop before hauling minerals to trade hub.
Hopefully your corp mates provide more sport for the wardeccers and not jump out to the ass end of nowhere to get you...
That does not work. I have over 200 locators including the locates channel. A competent wardeccer will always find you. Always. What are "locators" and "running locates" and the "locates channel?" Is this networks of people cooperating to provide intel? Do they do it for fun or is it quid pro quo? Or is it something else?
Locating a player can be done through so-called Locator Agents. Give such an agent a bit of isk and the name of the target and after a while, he'll report the location of that player. Intel obtained from these agents or by manually spotting players can of course be shared in private or public chat-channels.
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ISD Atomic Dove
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 07:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
If you are wanting to stay safe during a war the best thing you can do is pay attention.
If you do as players suggest and hold alignment to something (Stations are good) and notice the red scary man pop in local its quite easy to zip away before he finds your belt and location.
Mining in a less populated system will make it easier to notice those names in local.
If you haven't already, I use the "compact member list" option to reduce the size of names in local channel, it can be found under the chat tabs as the three men symbol as a tickbox.
ISD Atomic Dove
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
18396
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 07:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Faust ExNihilo wrote:What are "locators" and "running locates" and the "locates channel?"
Is this networks of people cooperating to provide intel?
Do they do it for fun or is it quid pro quo?
Or is it something else? Some NPC agents offer a location service as well as missions. People with decent faction or corp standings have access to the higher tier ones, in the same way that missions work, and offer to be an intermediary for people that don't have the standings required.
There is, or at least used to be, a channel called "locates are us"* where players can ask for a locate and another player will PM them to get the details and then run the locate for profit or at cost. I've done it myself as I have access to several level 4 locator agents and met some interesting people as a result.
It's entirely player driven, CCP probably had no idea that people would use the agents in such a way but they love it when we use the tools they give us in unexpected ways.
*The channel name may be incorrect, it's been a while since I've done it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre
Never go full Ripard |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
302
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 08:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks all for your kind replies. Overall I understand you could even attempt to mine under a highsec wardec if you're on the ball and the deccers are incompetent or lazy. I guess at least some of the corps that randomly wardec noob corps are. OTOH, professional, dedicated merc corps - and Kane, obviously - would make mining all but impossible. All this 'new player highsec survival' research inspired an idea that I posted here. I would appreciate it if y'all would have a look and maybe comment - even to say it's crap. People - even zealous ex-CSM delegates - sometimes suggest abolishing non-consensual wardecs 'for the sake of the New Players'  . I think that's bullsh*t so I tried to come up with a better way of helping out newbros with EVE's challenges. I read your suggestion and the answer is that your idea already exists in the form of player run corps such as EVE Uni, Brave Newbies, Red vs Blue, and maybe even some Factional Warfare corps. For the most part high sec corporations who do not wish to engage in PvP bring it on themselves for two reasons: 1) They heavily advertise themselves as a Industrial/manufacturing, mining, or 'Incursions' focused corporation. Doing this encourages those who like to 'grief' or hope to get some bling from your pimped out Incursion ship to wardec you. 2) Setting up a new corporation where others are and financially disrupting the 'locals' operation. This can involve something as obvious as strip mining all the nearby belts to setting up high sec POCOs with extortionate taxes or undercutting on the market. Basically If your high sec player corporation has been wardecced it will almost certainly be your fault.
Thanks!
Yes, E-Uni certainly does an excellent job but I think there would be several advantages to a 'PVP-training mechanic'. I posted a reply in the F&I thread if you're interested.
I don't think highsec corps focused on industry/PVE should be afraid of wardecs and go out of their way to avoid them; I think they should take the time to learn how to effectively deal with them, since it's not very hard unless you have someone like Kane on your tail.  |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
302
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 08:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Learned Vagrant wrote:'Gully Alex Foyle' ? I thought I was the only one who had ever read that book. 
There's certainly more, since 'Gully Foyle' and other variants were unavailable EVE toon names (that's why I added a middle name)!
For all sci-fi readers, the book is 'The Stars My Destination' by Alfred Bester, arguably one of the very greatest sci-fi novels of all time. |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
118
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:How to mine during war time:
1. Wait for summer expansion and barge buffs.
2. Fit skiffs with tank.
3. Blow up any flashies that come into range. 4. Add a structure rigged Orca fitted with command links to the mix for giggles. I've just checked the Kronos EFT build, with T2 structure rigs an Orca should hit in excess of 350k EHP without using any midslots  , leaving those slots open for various mischief  I can't believe I forgot about this point. This is vital. You of course need neutral prospects as scouts in surrounding systems, and battle ventures as tackle for all pilots that can't fly the skiffs. The hull tanked Orca is going to be scary, once you hit hull it's going to be like hitting a brick wall if it's fitted right. 387K hp at all skills V, plus shield mods if you want them in the mids.
The Orca. along with the Rorqual, are next in line to be 'rebalanced' and this will be happening relatively soon. There was much moaning in the F&I board about the new hull rigs making freighters 'OP' hence the changes to hull rigs negative aspect and nerfing of freighter EHP etc. Therefore you should expect the same thing to happen to the Orca. Also as the Orca has module slots whereas the freighter does not do not be surprised to find the Orca gets an even greater percentage reduction in EHP. This will result in choices having to be made regarding EHP, cargo etc and the current rough max EHP of 335K EHP will remain but with a significant hit to cargohold capacity.
The Rorqual will be a different matter though as CCP wish it to be able to be deployed in-belt so it will get significant additional defence capability. |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
118
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Bethan Le Troix wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks all for your kind replies. Overall I understand you could even attempt to mine under a highsec wardec if you're on the ball and the deccers are incompetent or lazy. I guess at least some of the corps that randomly wardec noob corps are. OTOH, professional, dedicated merc corps - and Kane, obviously - would make mining all but impossible. All this 'new player highsec survival' research inspired an idea that I posted here. I would appreciate it if y'all would have a look and maybe comment - even to say it's crap. People - even zealous ex-CSM delegates - sometimes suggest abolishing non-consensual wardecs 'for the sake of the New Players' . I think that's bullsh*t so I tried to come up with a better way of helping out newbros with EVE's challenges. I read your suggestion and the answer is that your idea already exists in the form of player run corps such as EVE Uni, Brave Newbies, Red vs Blue, and maybe even some Factional Warfare corps. For the most part high sec corporations who do not wish to engage in PvP bring it on themselves for two reasons: 1) They heavily advertise themselves as a Industrial/manufacturing, mining, or 'Incursions' focused corporation. Doing this encourages those who like to 'grief' or hope to get some bling from your pimped out Incursion ship to wardec you. 2) Setting up a new corporation where others are and financially disrupting the 'locals' operation. This can involve something as obvious as strip mining all the nearby belts to setting up high sec POCOs with extortionate taxes or undercutting on the market. Basically If your high sec player corporation has been wardecced it will almost certainly be your fault. Thanks! Yes, E-Uni certainly does an excellent job but I think there would be several advantages to a 'PVP-training mechanic'. I posted a reply in the F&I thread if you're interested. I don't think highsec corps focused on industry/PVE should be afraid of wardecs and go out of their way to avoid them; I think they should take the time to learn how to effectively deal with them, since it's not very hard unless you have someone like Kane on your tail.
As a general rule members of high sec industry & mining corps won't be experienced and/or skilled in PvP. So their main options are to dock up, gain allies to fight the wardec, or switch corps. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
303
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:As a general rule members of high sec industry & mining corps won't be experienced and/or skilled in PvP. So their main options are to dock up, gain allies to fight the wardec, or switch corps.
Yes, this may be true in many cases, but there's no good reason for indy/mining corps to not learn the basics.
If you plan on undocking from time to time, learning basic PVP survival is easy and a very smart thing to do.
On a scale of zero (no clue) to 100 (excellent and passionate PVPer with several years of experience), knowing how to not get your ship blown up in highsec would be well under 5 in terms of effort. Sure, if you don't really enjoy PVP there's no reason at all to learn the rest.
Several posters in this thread provided excellent and easy to follow advice that would give people a very good chance of pulling off the hardest possible thing to do under a wardec (mining). Anybody would agree that other typical indy activities, such as hauling, are trivial to do safely.
Many good members of the EVE community have chosen to not engage in spaceship PVP - that's perfectly fine. But nobody really enjoys staying docked, depending on others or abbandoning their Corp. And I bet even the most peaceful industrialist would enjoy 'cheerfully giving the finger' to a war target gatecamp he just flew by in his blockade runner. 
Anybody is free to play as they prefer, but 'learn to survive - it really isn't that hard' is much better advice than 'stay docked or leave corp', imo.
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Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Just use a Venture, it's cheap enough, fast enough and stabbed enough that it's not really worth ganking, and if someone comes looking across the galaxy to gank a Venture, you've already won in the game of making the war not fun for your attackers.
Also as a tip, watch local, mine away from the wrap in point, and remember that the more players there are in a system the harder it is to pin any single one of them down when you don't know their ship type and name.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
18401
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:The Orca. along with the Rorqual, are next in line to be 'rebalanced' and this will be happening relatively soon. There was much moaning in the F&I board about the new hull rigs making freighters 'OP' hence the changes to hull rigs negative aspect and nerfing of freighter EHP etc. Therefore you should expect the same thing to happen to the Orca. Also as the Orca has module slots whereas the freighter does not do not be surprised to find the Orca gets an even greater percentage reduction in EHP. This will result in choices having to be made regarding EHP, cargo etc and the current rough max EHP of 335K EHP will remain but with a significant hit to cargohold capacity.
The Rorqual will be a different matter though as CCP wish it to be able to be deployed in-belt so it will get significant additional defence capability. I know the Orca will get nerfed at some stage, but if it keeps its current stats for a while after Kronos then I, and many others, are going to abuse the hell out of it while we can; because it's going to be an absolute monster.
That said a lot of people won't bother using the new rigs and will still quite happily negative tank their Orcas with cargo rigs and expanders, and whine when they explode.
Nil mortifi sine lucre
Never go full Ripard |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
998
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
Given an interceptor with ascendancy implants can be on you in mere seconds, and maintaining alignment while mining can be a real challenge, also consider mining in a dead-end system with a scout/alt in the +1 entrance/exit system.
For example, mine in system 'A' that only has one gate into it from system 'B'. Put a scout/alt in system 'B' to watch local for war-targets entering system and give your main the time he needs to quickly align/dock before they get into 'A'. Ideally all other gates into 'B' will also be far away from the 'A' gate, to give you the time you need to do so.
However, skilled hunters are devious. I for example work around such a switched-on miner when such a scout/alt is in play, by having my scout probe down a wormhole in system 'A', and getting my main a route to it through lowsec/null (or jump into A through B, enter the wormhole and hope the toon thinks I moved on, and undocks again after a short delay...) They may also set a logoff trap in the belt you were previously in, and log back in the moment you enter warp back to that belt.
In short, all the suggestions will 'help', but you are never going to be safe from a really switched-on hunter. If you combine the above with ending your mining session the first time you see a war-target enter system, you can be 'safer'.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Faust ExNihilo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 14:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Elzira Kore wrote:
Locating a player can be done through so-called Locator Agents. Give such an agent a bit of isk and the name of the target and after a while, he'll report the location of that player. Intel obtained from these agents or by manually spotting players can of course be shared in private or public chat-channels.
What result do Locator Agents return if the target is offline?
Do they just provide the last known system? |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
999
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 14:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
Faust ExNihilo wrote:Elzira Kore wrote:
Locating a player can be done through so-called Locator Agents. Give such an agent a bit of isk and the name of the target and after a while, he'll report the location of that player. Intel obtained from these agents or by manually spotting players can of course be shared in private or public chat-channels.
What result do Locator Agents return if the target is offline? Do they just provide the last known system?
They show the system (and station) you are logged off in.
Only exception on locate results is if the target is in a wormhole, then they return 'person is outside my zone of influence' (aka In a wormhole).
F
Would you like to know more? |
Faust ExNihilo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 14:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Faust ExNihilo wrote:Elzira Kore wrote:
Locating a player can be done through so-called Locator Agents. Give such an agent a bit of isk and the name of the target and after a while, he'll report the location of that player. Intel obtained from these agents or by manually spotting players can of course be shared in private or public chat-channels.
What result do Locator Agents return if the target is offline? Do they just provide the last known system? They show the system (and station) you are logged off in. Only exception on locate results is if the target is in a wormhole, then they return 'person is outside my zone of influence' (aka In a wormhole). Logging off inside a wormhole is the only way to not have your location divulged by a locator agent. F
OK clear. Thanks! |
Bastion Arzi
Failed Diplomacy
Failed-Diplomacy
104
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 14:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
didnt read the thread.
but u should bait them. have allies waiting to undock or in the next system.
make sure ur flying something with acceptable tank corresponding to what the WT's have in system.
when they come to kill u tank thier dps and call in the cavalry.
then lol, win, profit whatever u want to call it.
once they are dead u can mine in peace. |
Tadeshi Ichikaze
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
As with most things - you need to remain cognizant of what your situation is - as there is no one solution that fits all.
As an example:
For a very small or private corporation - you can simply have an alternate corporation somewhere else. If you get war decc'd then everyone just logs into their alts until the war is over. Of course, inherent to this idea - is security. If someone gives away what that other corporation is - then they'll just dec that too if it's not to far away. For a larger corporation things like this wouldn't work so well for the whole corporation. Having only people in your corporation that you know IRL is probably the best chance you have of maintaining security but that also limits the size of your corporation.
So ... think about your situation (before you get war dec'd) and look at some of the options that may work for you, then keep thinking as things change. What previously worked may no longer be a good idea - and what was not achievable before may now be practical.
Know your enemy. Use neutral scouts to find out where they are and what they're doing. Find out who their members are and put them in your contacts list. Do they all play at the same time or are they scattered all over the clock. Can you play when they aren't on?
How does the rest of your corporation feel about fighting or hiding or trying to mine?
It isn't a simple matter of adopting a particular strategy. It's a leadership issue as well. Will your people do it? Can you lead them? How complex an idea can you put into action? There's a reason for keeping things simple but then that limits your options if you could pull off something more complex.
Think about what you're doing. Act. Think some more. Act again. If something doesn't work - figure out why - then decide if you want to give it another try or not.
If you have experienced leadership - they may have a greater understanding of what their options are. If you've got relatively new people as leaders than less adventurous options may be better. Of course, this is one of the reasons new people shouldn't have corporations ...
*shrug*
.
.
., |
Kaea Astridsson
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers
Noir. Mercenary Group
52
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 19:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Awesome thread. I can admit I've only survived one war-dec as industrial, not much changed for me apart from having to poke out of corp friends to scout for me while I ran PI. Had already grown bored of missions and mining wasn't my cup of tea.
Will fling at anyone I know or see that complains about war-decs.
Think most corps that "fall" due to war-decs are actually really badly situated (very active systems) and mostly lack discipline/knowledge of making bookmarks, not checking d-scan for combat probes, not spreading intel and generally not being aware of the locals. The fewer residents in your system the easier it is to keep tabs on them and spot obvious scouts. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
376
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 20:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kaea Astridsson wrote:Will fling at anyone I know or see that complains about war-decs.
Hey, thanks! This is exactly the reason why I made the thread.
Thanks again to all the helpful contributors, too. |
Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large
Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
426
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 21:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'm not much of a miner, but why not just go mine in a wormhole. The ore is much better than high sec. Use a T1 mining barge or ship. With appropriate awareness, in a quiet wh you should make far more than the eventual loss of your mining ship. Unless they have intel, most likely your wt's will never find you while you are there.
No good deed goes unpunished |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Disturbed Acquaintance
1337
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 23:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Maxpie wrote:I'm not much of a miner, but why not just go mine in a wormhole. The ore is much better than high sec. Use a T1 mining barge or ship. With appropriate awareness, in a quiet wh you should make far more than the eventual loss of your mining ship. Unless they have intel, most likely your wt's will never find you while you are there.
It may seem like odd advice, but I think either of the Mining Frigates backed up with an orca close-by would be a much better idea for wormhole mining on the fly.
The Venture has +warpstrength
The Prospect is cloakable
either makes for a good sneaky raider style approach to mining
Gas Clouds found in wormholes can be quite lucrative, and the Venture excels at gas mining aswell as ore mining
Along with the ABC ores as priority mining targets it should, in theory, be a workable possibility. |
Luwc
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
135
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 06:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
isnt that basicaly the idea behind the venture ?
http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
1626
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 11:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
The issue with the venture, in addition to its low yield is that someone can just warp in in an artillery fit wolf and one shot you. |
DaReaper
Net 7
The Last Brigade
547
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 16:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
tl;dr
it depends on the WT corp.
In my 10 years I have had a few wars. If they were mercs paid to kill us, there was nothing you could do to avoid them. They will find you and kill you, everyone, all your corp mates.
If its a random dec looking for easy kills, you just have to leave your home system and you should be ok. This works for ppl who just want easy kills, as they will find them. And won't really hunt down out of the way people
If its a large war decing alliance that randomly war decs other alliances and corps looking for kills, just stay out of jita. (this used to be a thing that privateer alliance would do, they would war dec alliances and just camp jita. Tons of kills for them)
It really just depends on what you are up against. But common sense and being aligned are your friends. And if you have the isk, might as well undock in a pvp ship and get blown up a few times. Its a great way to learn about pvp and can be fun if you chose to fight back.
10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1039
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Luwc wrote:isnt that basicaly the idea behind the venture ?
Stabs (built in or fitted) won't save you from pro hunters, who's scout sees you in said venture and subsequently swaps his long point for the True Sansha Warp Scrambler (3 point strength each) he carries in the cargo of his pwnboat...or simply reships to a HICtor if he has a ship depot nearby...
Best defense is as mentioned above, awareness, dead-end-system, scout/tripwire, dock up the instant a WT enters system and end your session.
F
Would you like to know more? |
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