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Makaera Koshito
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Posted - 2006.05.31 18:30:00 -
[1]
There is really no logical reason why I should not be allowed to tractor someone else's loot. I would like to be able to tractor the jet cans that folks don't want to my ship. Yes, I can hear all the jet can miners going nuts over this one, but honestly, this can only do more good than harm.
1. Gate and Asteroid Field lag will be reduced. In high sec systems where all the new players do missions, I get huge lag at the gate and in roid fields because they don't want their loot. Let me tell you, if you don't want your loot, I sure as heck do. Sure, there is the aggression timer and all, but I don't really care about that. EVE is PvP and if I can't handle being shot at once in a while, I shouldn't be playing.
2. Give tractoring cans the same type of security/aggression timer that stealing gives. Just make it so that as soon as I activate my tractor beam on the can, the owner of the can can open fire, but maybe for a reduced time, since I haven't actually stolen anything yet. Maybe make it for like 1 minute or something so that if I don't actually steal anything, no harm is done. But 9/10 times, if I am going to tractor a can, I intend to steal from the can, so you can add that 1 minute on to the 15 minutes on the aggression timer.
I just don't like the idea that the mechanics of the game (a line of programming) disallow me to tractor someone else's can to my ship and not simple logic or physics.
Discuss?
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paulcdb
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Posted - 2006.05.31 18:35:00 -
[2]
lol, i can see it now... people chasing they're cans around the field as someone tows it around 
is a pain when your in a gang finishing off collecting and the owner in another corp docks and you can no longer pull in they're can's 
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ragewind
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Posted - 2006.05.31 19:00:00 -
[3]
tractor beams should pull any can and pull uncontroled drones in empire these should give agro timer like kaking from the cans.
can see it now pulling a can off under mwd to feck the macro miners up
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fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.05.31 19:02:00 -
[4]
Allowing you to tractor other peoples cans would just be a cheap griefing tool.
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Rogen DarHeel
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Posted - 2006.05.31 19:55:00 -
[5]
I would like to be able to tractor other alliance cans.. I can take from other alliance cans with no penalty in 0.0 so I sould be able to tractor them in 0.0 aswell.
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.05.31 22:41:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Deja Thoris
Allowing you to tractor other peoples cans would just be a cheap griefing tool.
No more than stealing from cans is now. Having the aggression timer on tractoring makes it no different.
I'd agree to being able to tractor other people's cans. If they don't want the loot, I'll take it back even if it 's only junk to reprocess.
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Queranna
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Posted - 2006.06.01 00:00:00 -
[7]
tractoring a can should be a flagging offence so that if you do tractor someones can, they can attack you, if this feature is allowed
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St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.06.01 00:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Allowing you to tractor other peoples cans would just be a cheap griefing tool.
Yea but fun too hehe. Should cause agro tho like stealing ore fro the can.
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Awox
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Posted - 2006.06.01 01:43:00 -
[9]
This should definately be allowed in 0.0. Collecting loot after a big fight is a PITA.
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Makaera Koshito
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Posted - 2006.06.01 05:37:00 -
[10]
Another idea I thought of last night was giving the type of can you are trying to tractor a different kind of aggression ranking.
Tractoring Jet cans: 30 minutes and attack by anyone in your corp/gang is allowed. Or, and this is just an idea, make it so that tractoring a jet can is an act of aggression in high-sec space, leading to an attack by CONCORD. This cuts down on the griefing problem Deja talked about.
Tractoring Loot cans: 2 minutes and attack by anyone in your corp/gang is allowed. No further penalties.
As we all know, Jet cans and loot cans are different. A Jet can is mine. It was produced by my ship with stuff from my cargo hold. I own that can and can add or remove anything I want to/from it. If you steal from my jet can, you are directly stealing from me.
A loot can was not produced by my ship, but can more correctly be classified as flotsam. The fact that it is in a can is a part of game mechanics. I cannot add/remove anything to/from it. The only thing that classifies it as mine is the fact that I have initial rights to it because I spent my time and ammo on killing the rat/PC in order to create that can and the loot in it. Realistically speaking, the fact that there is even an aggression timer is a part of mechanics in the game created to cut down on griefing. You cannot really consider taking from a loot can stealing since you really didn't own what was in the jet can to begin with, you just had certain rights to it because you conquered what owned it before you.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.06.01 05:38:00 -
[11]
They already made it easier to use tractor beams. I don't think we need any more help collecting cans.
But if they do allow us to do it, it should be impossible to tractor a can while the rightful owner is on the overview, so you can't jack miners' cans or steal mission runners' loot unless they've abandoned it.
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James Snowscoran
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Posted - 2006.06.01 09:51:00 -
[12]
As long as they get a flag just like you get while stealing from someone's can I think it's fine. I mean, for the griefers out there you can already hop into a noobship, buy 2 guns and a civilian ab, and go around popping cans without anyone being able to do anything about it.
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2006.06.01 10:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Allowing you to tractor other peoples cans would just be a cheap griefing tool.
But you forget one thing .. it's all whats EVE is about - cheap griefing.
Unnerf Amarr!
Proud member of Caldari Provisions |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.06.01 11:30:00 -
[14]
ok another comprimise u cant take cans belonging to other corps (player corps and alliances) but .... u can take cans from noob corpers (this will further stuff up macro miners) while if the can belongs to a player in a corp then u cant tractor it.
Discuss.
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Makaera Koshito
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Posted - 2006.06.01 12:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Makaera Ko****o on 01/06/2006 12:00:39
New players should not be the subject of grief any more than the rest of us. If a loot can is out there, no matter the corp, it is fair game.
Or, in order to cut down on the griefing aspect, once a can has been in space for a set amount of time, the can is allowed to be tractored. Heck, once the player concludes the mission with their agent, those cans should be fair game with a tractor beam.
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ragewind
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Posted - 2006.06.01 17:03:00 -
[16]
the tractor beam uses needs to be extended to aliance cans they are all frendly and it is so anoying cycaling trought them all knowing that its too far to fly in your slow ass ship but that there could be a top modual in the can you are looking for
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fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
Dimitrius Zabelle
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Posted - 2006.06.01 19:06:00 -
[17]
Will just mean ore theifs can steal a can from outside of warp scram range...
Not a good idea.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.06.01 19:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Noriath on 01/06/2006 19:16:08
It would be hilarious to tractor all the ore from AFK miners with a really fast MWD ship to the ass end of the galaxy though. Well, acctually you might as well just steal it.
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Makaera Koshito
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Posted - 2006.06.02 05:34:00 -
[19]
I would rather my idea not apply to jet cans, but just loot cans.
After all, who uses a tractor beam on their own jet can? No one I know, and I've never done it myself. I would not be opposed to the game mechanics prohibiting a jet can from being tractored, simply because if we allow a player to tractor another player's jet can, the only use for it will be griefing.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.06.02 06:40:00 -
[20]
Actually, we use tractors to collect jet cans on large-scale mining ops. The haulers warp in, and then tractor the full cans to themselves so they don't have to fly over there, taking time and risking bumping the barges, which some miners are really sensitive about.
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vanBuskirk
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Posted - 2006.06.02 09:28:00 -
[21]
Slightly off on a tangent here:
I have occasionally done some ratting and can't be bothered to collect loot, and rather more often not had the space (cap charges ftl!)
How about an option on your cans, or loot cans from rats you've shot, to de-flag the cans? "Come and get free loot" option?
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"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Makaera Koshito
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Makaera Ko****o on 02/06/2006 13:16:37
Then I stand corrected, Reggie. I guess the spirit of what I was trying to say was that outside of your/my own corp, there's no reason to tractor a jet can except in the case of griefing... not that I can think of anyway.
And no on unflagging cans. 1. Just another pop-up or step for folks to take, which won't be taken. 2. Why do I need permission to steal what's in someone else's can that they don't want? I can already do that. I want to be able to tractor that can, and since it is nearly the same as stealing, I shouldn't need permission, I just want the ability. Besides, if someone unflags a can, that means they've already gone through and picked the best stuff out of it. I don't need more cap charges to refine.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.06.02 17:13:00 -
[23]
I still think it should be possible when they aren't around. If they warp away, or dock, or log off or something, the flag should disappear.
On a side note, I've seen cans that don't belong to me showing up white and not flagging me for taking them, and not from my corp. Usually, they're rookie ship loot cans. Is there a timer that causes this?
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Jin Tonichi
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Posted - 2006.06.06 16:16:00 -
[24]
Actually, I think cans should just change owner to nobody, if their original owner jumps out of system, logs off or until 20 minutes have passed without the can being accessed.
That would solve the litter problem we have nowadays nicely.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:00:00 -
[25]
Maybe if they're gone for twenty minutes, it would be okay. Otherwise ore thieves could warp into an asteroid field in low-sec, chase all the miners away, then scoop up the unflagged cans.
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Festloid
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:29:00 -
[26]
Tractoring a can that isn't yours should be classed in the same light as stealing it (as why else would you be tractoring someone elses can?)and setting the aggression counter.
It should be allowed, might allow a little more PvP in empire space perhaps??
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:59:00 -
[27]
Cans already turn white after a certain period iirc and don't stay yellow till they pop.
Anyone who leaves a can lying around after ratting in a belt obviously doesn't want it. Similarly, the missions that send you to shoot all the rats as they come through the gate. I have often seen dozens of cans just sitting there with nobody around collecting them. Any ship with enough cargo space to pick them all up is going to take a while to traverse the 150km or so to them. If the owner isn't back by that time, they obviously are not coming back. At most, they only need to dock, change ships and go back out to collect them.
All these cans do is cause lag for everyone using the gate. Anyone who is willing to clean them up is doing everyone else a favour. I think the tractor beam should also pull in drones, which helps you with errant ones that refuse to come home. Also it should work on abandoned ships which are often left at the undocking point of stations so everyone undocking has to watch their ship dance around an unused ship parked there before they finally warp off. Let us haul them out of the way, I don't care about them being abandoned, just not right at the undock point. Being unable to exit the ship to undock in your pod means you can't even salvage them for scrap.
Cans are simply an inert object and any inert object within reason should be tractorable whether it's yours or not, unpiloted ships are inert objects too. Allow it if it's yours and thief flag if it isn't.
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Savvy
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:58:00 -
[28]
I would like to see a timer so that cans lose the owner flag after a period of time or after the owner leaves the system.
Only then would I want to see the cans being locked by the tractorbeam.
In 0.0 however I can see their being a difference in attitude by players but I am not sure how easy it would be for the Devs to code for the device to work differently depending on sec status of the system.
I would also like to see secure cans that are not frequently used unanchoring / popping too as that will kill a lot of lag in the DB
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